[realnilkless]

edit

[BodeOmissemia]

Would you find it to be acceptable if she walked around in a dashiki and threw up her "black" fist? all the while yelling 5% and black pride?

No one does that anymore so I would find it strange.

[investor]

Explain this then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White

Culture/self identification trumps phenotype. ^^ Easy to explain. There was a caste system based on skin color among those categorized as black in the segregation era US.

[Cheaperisdeeper]

Oh I got it. I know in many other countries though culture trumps race. The categories and obsession over correlating phenotypes with a race is very much amplified in the United States. I've been discussing this with a couple of people I know - one of my friends does not identify herself as White but according to the few boxes there are in the US she has to check it. (White, Black, Hispanic, Asian etc.).

Race is extremely important in the United States, and Phenotype matters. If not for the individual's identity, but for how society will automatically classify the individual.

Culture mean doesn't lick of anything.

Here's a mulatto that identifies with her white side. Look at how people just laugh at her.

[kimaddison]

Explain this then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White



Culture/self identification trumps phenotype.

His surname makes it all the more comical.

Culture/self-identification trumps phenotype and surname.

[mybooboo]

I just think phenotype doesn't determine identity at all. Most mixed Native Americans I've met looked basically Caucasian but only identified as Native.

Yes, in case you follow the amerind cosumes and traditions and belong to the ethnic group of your ancestors. In my case my great grand mother who was fully amerind, had been already westernized so she left us no cultural heritage, i cannot claim Im an injun.

[iOqedeyH]

No one does that anymore so I would find it strange.

Is she a black person to you? can she really understand what it means to be black? Can you and her strike up a conversation about hair products?

[iroxmxinau]

^^ Easy to explain. There was a caste system based on skin color among those categorized as black in the segregation era US.

Edit: Why ninja edit your posts? Ask questions, get answers. If your goal is to win an argument, then you must already think you have the answers... don't bother asking the question.

I edited my post because it was a repeat post.

I'm not here to argue. Just stating facts and discussing. By the way he chose to identify as black. He wasn't classified as such.

[Helloheshess]

Is she a black person to you? can she really understand what it means to be black? Can you and her strike up a conversation about hair products?

IMO, black is more about a person's cultural identity and their sociopolitical affiliation.

I can, and have had hair discussions with people who look like the woman in that picture. My black aunt looks like her.

I don't understand your post. What are you trying to figure out?

[Rurcextedutty]

I edited my post because it was a repeat post.

I'm not here to argue. Just stating facts and discussing. By the way he chose to identify as black. He wasn't classified as such.

This girl culturally identifies as white, and she even waves around the "stars n Bars"



She culturally identifies as a White mid-westerner, yet we find this unacceptable. why?

---------- Post added 2012-06-10 at 00:30 ----------

IMO, black is more about a person's cultural identity and their sociopolitical affiliation.

I can, and have had hair discussions with people who look like the woman in that picture. My black aunt looks like her.

I don't understand your post. What are you trying to figure out?

So if she gets a job because she can pass, and you can't, is being black still about a person's culturally identity?

[expiclefich]

Is she a black person to you? can she really understand what it means to be black? Can you and her strike up a conversation about hair products?

I know lots of people that do not look at all like they have any black in them but identify with one side. As for biracials that look black but identify with only their white side there are plenty like that and if they do so I see nothing wrong with how they choose to identify themselves. That girl in the video was prejudice so that's another story nothing to do with culture.

I know this one kid - half black half white. Looks 100% white (blonde hair and all with tannish skin color) but identifies as 100% black. He looks more like a white person than the girl you posted.

[infelconi]

I edited my post because it was a repeat post.

I'm not here to argue. Just stating facts and discussing. By the way he chose to identify as black. He wasn't classified as such.

Classified by whom? His Wiki you linked to, described his family as attending a church established by Freedmen and being light skinned. That means socially and culturally they were black. He could have chosen to abandon his family heritage, cut off relations, move to a new town, and pass as white. Instead he embraced his heritage.

[ladleliDypenue]

So if she gets a job because she can pass, and you can't, is being black still about a person's culturally identity?

I don't understand your question.

[Keyclenef]

In order to be part of an ethnic group/nation you have to fit in with your phenotype. This is the cold truth for some that lead people to have identity crisis. For example, a person who is half black/half Russian trying to fit in as a Russian. Even if he grew up and thinks like Russian wholly, he will still have a hard time being accepted. While, a Russian/French mix will have much easier. So generally this happens when the mix is between far apart races e.g. negroid/caucasoid

[Anykeylo]

Could this quadroon walk around East Oakland

She'd probably get gang raped.

[CelexaNY]

Anyway I'm not here to argue just wanted to hear about peoples experiences - to repeat my question:
I'm just curious about the experiences of mixed race and even non-mixed race people that because of their appearance are mistaken for another 'ethnicity' than their actual ethnic makeup or what they self-identify as. Has that changed the way you identify yourself or shaped you?

[Zesavenue]

In order to be part of an ethnic group/nation you have to fit in with your phenotype. This is the cold truth for some that lead people to have identity crisis. For example, a person who is half black/half Russian trying to fit in as a Russian. Even if he grew up and thinks like Russian wholly, he will still have a hard time being accepted. While, a Russian/French mix will have much easier. So generally this happens when the mix is between far apart races e.g. negroid/caucasoid

Correct, and this is where the "phenotype doesn't matter" position fails, because in many cultures, it matters a lot. Other things which may matter are whether your ethnic ancestry is paternal or maternal, what religion they practice, language, mannerisms, etc.

[Intiltern]

She'd probably get gang raped.

She looks Dominican. You can tell she has black in her.

[angelxmagic]

In order to be part of an ethnic group/nation you have to fit in with your phenotype. This is the cold truth for some that lead people to have identity crisis. For example, a person who is half black/half Russian trying to fit in as a Russian. Even if he grew up and thinks like Russian wholly, he will still have a hard time being accepted. While, a Russian/French mix will have much easier. So generally this happens when the mix is between far apart races e.g. negroid/caucasoid

exactly..

Pick here in this thread Assume that one can just "pick" his or her race. It's nearly impossible.

Russia is a good Example because anyone who does not look Slavic has a probability of getting their ass-whooped. How can some Russian Mulatto identify as a "russian"? Boris, Nikoli and their friends will make sure that any Russia Mulatto not exactly what race that belong too and that's probably not Russia or slavic.

[choollaBard]

Correct, and this is where the "phenotype doesn't matter" position fails, because in many cultures, it matters a lot. Other things which may matter are whether your ethnic ancestry is paternal or maternal, what religion they practice, language, mannerisms, etc.

I agree in highly monoracial countries or highly racialized countries = phenotype matters most. But in many others it doesn't matter.