[MannoFr]

To all respected MEMBERS,

Belief determines the "Conduct".
Thought determines "Character".
A man of perverted mindand a doubting person do not get spiritual knowledge.


A.V.V.RAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMIL NADU

[doctorzlo]

To all respected MEMBERS,

Belief determines the "Conduct".
Thought determines "Character".
A man of perverted mindand a doubting person do not get spiritual knowledge.


A.V.V.RAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMIL NADU

Dear sir,

Nice words and a good topic to discuss.

BTW I have a doubt..dont you think its us humans who are extremely rigid when it comes to right and wrong?

Sometimes I feel that only God gives us the absolute freedom of being at the either end of the character spectrum.

Only God confers us the freedom to be good or bad.

Its basically all in our own mind and conduct and what I love about God no matter how fallen a person is He still lifts him/her up and wipes away his/her tears.

Truly only God is the Patita Pavana.

[9mm_fan]

Dear sir,

Nice words and a good topic to discuss.

BTW I have a doubt..dont you think its us humans who are extremely rigid when it comes to right and wrong?

Sometimes I feel that only God gives us the absolute freedom of being at the either end of the character spectrum.

Only God confers us the freedom to be good or bad.

Its basically all in our own mind and conduct and what I love about God no matter how fallen a person is He still lifts him/her up and wipes away his/her tears.

Truly only God is the Patita Pavana.

Dear Renuka,

You have wonderful philosophical thoughts that showcases your higher spiritual sense, isn't it?


IMO, we are humans only because we know what is right and what is wrong. We, as civilized humans live in a society with all our human feelings and emotions that all lines up between the two opposite spectrum of right and wrong. Otherwise we would be no different than animals.

If tomorrow one of my close friends terribly betrays me or fixes me up to cover up the mistakes done by him, I would never consider his acts as that of God's wish/control on him and continue to keep my friendship with him. All I would think is, his thoughts are not good and thus have wrong conduct and character. I will keep myself away from him and request God to shower his grace upon him.

If a neighbor do any filthy things to the next door man or woman, the person at receiving end would not pardon him/her, thinking that, it's God's will upon him/her to act in such and such way. So, let me keep embracing him/her and be friendly to him/her.

Like wise there are many cases and many relationships, that makes us understand the good and the bad, the right and the wrong. And we end up accepting or rejecting as the case may be. Because we are Humans.

In the name of God, spirituality and astrology we can only understand why the erring person is like this or like that. But, we can not take the grievous errors for granted. We live our life securing your body, mind and thoughts. We look for emotional and moral fulfillment within our self and between fellow humans, in every walk of our life.

Yes, only God is Truly the Patita Pavan. We mere humans are not cent percent perfect, to be qualified to be the Patita Pavan. We live in a society with some belief system, trusting God and spirituality, glorifying God as some one who bestows his grace upon his people and help them to be righteous.

So, IMO, we as humans can peacefully and happily live our life only by identifying and administering what is right and what is wrong. The parameters off course differs from individual to individual and each person accepts or rejects based on with what he/she can be comfortable and happy.

[Drugmachine]

Dear Renuka,

You have wonderful philosophical thoughts that showcases your higher spiritual sense, isn't it?


IMO, we are humans only because we know what is right and what is wrong. We, as civilized humans live in a society with all our human feelings and emotions that all lines up between the two opposite spectrum of right and wrong. Otherwise we would be no different than animals.

If tomorrow one of my close friends terribly betrays me or fixes me up to cover up the mistakes done by him, I would never consider his acts as that of God's wish/control on him and continue to keep my friendship with him. All I would think is, his thoughts are not good and thus have wrong conduct and character. I will keep myself away from him and request God to shower his grace upon him.

If a neighbor do any filthy things to the next door man or woman, the person at receiving end would not pardon him/her, thinking that, it's God's will upon him/her to act in such and such way. So, let me keep embracing him/her and be friendly to him/her.

Like wise there are many cases and many relationships, that makes us understand the good and the bad, the right and the wrong. And we end up accepting or rejecting as the case may be. Because we are Humans.

In the name of God, spirituality and astrology we can only understand why the erring person is like this or like that. But, we can not take the grievous errors for granted. We live our life securing your body, mind and thoughts. We look for emotional and moral fulfillment within our self and between fellow humans, in every walk of our life.

Yes, only God is Truly the Patita Pavan. We mere humans are not cent percent perfect, to be qualified to be the Patita Pavan. We live in a society with some belief system, trusting God and spirituality, glorifying God as some one who bestows his grace upon his people and help them to be righteous.

So, IMO, we as humans can peacefully and happily live our life only by identifying and administering what is right and what is wrong. The parameters off course differs from individual to individual and each person accepts or rejects based on with what he/she can be comfortable and happy.

Dear Ravi,

Simply beautiful what you wrote but what I was trying to say that even God doesn't ask for perfection from us humans but we humans impose rules of perfection on others.
This is a crime that all of us commit someway or the other without even knowing it sometimes.

That was what I was trying to relate.

[Lillie_Steins]

To all respected MEMBERS,

Belief determines the "Conduct".
Thought determines "Character".
A man of perverted mindand a doubting person do not get spiritual knowledge.


A.V.V.RAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMIL NADU

Sri. Rajagopal, Greetings.

If your opening post is a bit more detailed, it may be more easier to conduct a discussion instead of assuming your mind, please.

Belief in what? Believing in myself can be called belief too. The term conduct has to be defined. That whole sentence ' Belief determines the "conduct"' is stated without any clear defenitions. All such qualities are subjective interpretation.

Next sentence also falls in the same category. ' Thought determines 'character'. Why? I may be person with wildest possible thoughts. But my character do not have to reflect any of my imaginations or thoughts.

Conduct and character of a person are very serious qualities of a person. It is strange to see such qualities are subject to interpreatations in this OP. Such qualities should be better defined in a discussion situation.

A person who doesn't doubt may not enquire for answers..... such person may not advance 'spiritually' ( again the term 'spiritual' is subject to interpretations).

A person with a perverted mind can very well have very good character and conduct. We have to analyse the perversion on case by case by basis. For example, let me provide an example... let us say a married couple seek thrill and has sex in public in one of the busy parks in the Chennai City ( how they do it without attracting audience is a different matter).... would you say this couple may not get spiritual knowledge?

Just few points to chew on!.....

Cheers!

[Slonopotam845]

Good point Mr. Raghy.

[Big A]

Dear Members,

The greatest weakness is doubt.

Doubt is the enemy.Doubt is the greatest sin.

Slay this doubt.

Slay the slayer mind.

A.V.VRAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMILNADU

[MannoFr]

For example, let me provide an example...

let us say a married couple seek thrill and has sex in public in one of the busy parks in the Chennai City ( how they do it without attracting audience is a different matter).... would you say this couple may not get spiritual knowledge? Strange as it might, wonder if such thoughts leads us to think of the person behind such thoughts. Would he get spiritual?

Thats not the reason for my post though. Just wanted to tell you that this reminds me of a story of a dog that waited for a couple of days outside Ramanashree's Ashram to have his darshan. Just after it had his darshan, it is said it died.

[Ifroham4]

Dear Members,

The greatest weakness is doubt.

Doubt is the enemy.Doubt is the greatest sin.

Slay this doubt.

Slay the slayer mind.

A.V.VRAJAGOPAL-COIMBATORE-TAMILNADU

Dear sir,

Sometimes doubt is the catalyst for spirituality.
It was Arjuna's doubt that gave us the Bhagavad Geeta.

I feel we should welcome any doubt in our lives..without doubts there are no questions and without questions there are no answers.

Just channel all our doubts to God and He will provide us the answers.

[brraverishhh]

Dear Ravi,

....... what I was trying to say that even God doesn't ask for perfection from us humans but we humans impose rules of perfection on others.
This is a crime that all of us commit someway or the other without even knowing it sometimes.

That was what I was trying to relate.

Dear Renuka,

How are you saying that even God does not ask for perfection from us humans? You believe in God and spirituality and you seem to have good knowledge about some good messages in Geeta and you often refer to those verses here. In such a case, how you could say that human evolution towards the betterment is not the God's will? How can you relate God's incarnations and the moral messages that they have emphasized with the human's refinement?

Why to talk about God alone? All the law and justice of the secular environment imposes rules of perfection on others. Will you consider those laws, orders and justice too as a crime committed towards humans in the society?

Common Renuka!!! We humans, in our society could have not evolved for better and live a peaceful, safe, happy and contented life if we would have not defined what is right and what is wrong.

We in society can never impose on others with our rules of perfection, as an individual over the other individual. We can only relate our self with like minded people and lead a safe and happy life. The only irony is other people between us who don't have anything to be considered right and anything to be considered wrong, are, knowingly or unknowingly make hell out of our life.

So, people in a society with their cultural values, expects every one to indulge in good deeds so that every one can live happily.

The ironical reality is that, this expectation hardly gets fulfilled.

We can't expect God to appear before us and explain us what is right and what is wrong. So, don't say assertively that God does not ask for perfection from us humans. We humans alone can define what is right and what is wrong to have a healthy society and jointly work towards perfection. That is what the society is doing from the time immemorial.

[MannoFr]

Strange as it might, wonder if such thoughts leads us to think of the person behind such thoughts. Would he get spiritual?

Thats not the reason for my post though. Just wanted to tell you that this reminds me of a story of a dog that waited for a couple of days outside Ramanashree's Ashram to have his darshan. Just after it had his darshan, it is said it died.

Although this message is not addressed to me, the quoted message was written by me in post #5 as quoted below... A person with a perverted mind can very well have very good character and conduct. We have to analyse the perversion on case by case by basis. For example, let me provide an example... let us say a married couple seek thrill and has sex in public in one of the busy parks in the Chennai City ( how they do it without attracting audience is a different matter).... would you say this couple may not get spiritual knowledge? I fail to see the connection between the dog waiting outside Ramanashre Ashram and the quoted message.

but anyway, there was one person who was addicted to sex. He had sex outside his marriage; got leprosy.. still sought sex.. he could only think about sex.....

Then he started composing songs.

Here is one such song - Abhagaraninthai - KJ Yesudas - Arupadai Thiruppugazh - YouTube

His compositions are known by the name 'Thiruppugazh'. Did he get spirutual? I don't know.

He was not the only one in my mind when I wrote my message in post #5.

Cheers!

[Big A]

Is it possible that sometimes right and wrong need not be absolute? For example, we know that after any major battle, history is written by the victor. All Indian children are taught that the Pandavas were good people (in spite of some minor vices) and that the Kauravas were bad (in spite of rumors that Duryodhana was a good king). Now what if the Kauravas had won the great war? Would the moral of the story be different?

[Peptobismol]

I fail to see the connection between the dog waiting outside Ramanashre Ashram and the quoted message.

Dear Sri Raghy,
I myself pointed out that there is no connection. So, dont worry much.

He was not the only one in my mind when I wrote my message in post #5.
That some of you some how bring in your pet pov into every discussion just baffles me.
Of course, you have facts and examples to back them up, but what is it you are trying to convey?
That there is no connection between being spiritual and your (past) thoughts?

[doctorzlo]

Now what if the Kauravas had won the great war? Would the moral of the story be different?

In all probability, the war and story would continue.
Moral is about what/how others should be, not so much about whether they were?

[Beerinkol]

I feel we should welcome any doubt in our lives..without doubts there are no questions and without questions there are no answers.

there are multiple meaning or connotations to the word 'doubt'.
One aspect is what you describe above - a healthy feeling of not being convinced or seeking clarifications and explanations that leads to more knowledge, understanding appreciation and acceptance.

the other aspect of doubt is the rejection or distrust, sometimes suspicion. this aspect of doubt might not help you progress, because the questions that crop in your mind lead to away from knowing it more, but understanding it less. Sometimes this is needed so that you stay clear of being mislead.

So when you have a doubt, is there a doubt that you already have an impression and that your questions flow in that direction?

[Paul Bunyan]

1. Our moderator has put a muzzle on my posts; I can post but they will be deleted. Some earlier ones, more than a month old, are deleted.
2. He has not accepted my explanation on the 'controversial post', despite telling repeatedly that I have nothing more to add on the issue.
3. My profile shows I have permission to post or start new threads. I requested him to cancel my membership, but he has not done that. I can't find the button to cancel my membership on my own.
4. When I started typing I get an encouraging message "it appears that you have not posted in our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask .... etc."

That is how it is now!

[Slonopotam845]

1. Our moderator has put a muzzle on my posts; I can post but they will be deleted. Some earlier ones, more than a month old, are deleted.
2. He has not accepted my explanation on the 'controversial post', despite telling repeatedly that I have nothing more to add on the issue.
3. My profile shows I have permission to post or start new threads. I requested him to cancel my membership, but he has not done that. I can't find the button to cancel my membership on my own.
4. When I started typing I get an encouraging message "it appears that you have not posted in our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask .... etc."

That is how it is now!

Dear Sarang,

Welcome back.

[Fegasderty]

So when you have a doubt, is there a doubt that you already have an impression and that your questions flow in that direction?

I really doubt that!!LOL

[TorryJens]

Dear Sri. Sarang, Greetings.

It is nice to see you back in the forum.

I refer to your message in post #16. With all due respects to your message, kindly don't comment about the moderation issues in the open forum, please. Yes, i am quite aware of......I know I am not the moderator, I know I have no business to suggest others etc and all the other comments directed to me before. It is just not nice to see these things out in the open. That's all.

Comments on this messages are welcome.

Cheers!

[TorryJens]

Dear Sri Raghy,
I myself pointed out that there is no connection. So, dont worry much.


That some of you some how bring in your pet pov into every discussion just baffles me.
Of course, you have facts and examples to back them up, but what is it you are trying to convey?
That there is no connection between being spiritual and your (past) thoughts?

Dear Sri. Ozone, Greetings.

No, I don't worry about others messages. I was just curious to learn the connection in my previous post. I am not saying there should not be any. Only I failed to see if there was any. That's all.

What is that I am trying to convey? Just very simple.... I don't like being judgemental of others. Who are we to judge about others? When I read the message about thoughts and spirituality, the first person came to my mind was Kannadasan. In fact I was thinking about a monthly publication by the name Kannadasan. I was about 11 years old when I first came across a copy of that magazine... it was dated like in 1969... When I read that magazine I was stunned to say the least ( I shouldn't have read that anyway!). I had a very spiritual figure for Kannadasan after listening to old movie songs like Ambikapathy, Pava Mannippu etc. Then I watched 'Rathath Thilakam' when I was like 10 years old ( I was accompanying my aunt, my dad's youngest sister; otherwise I would not have been allowed!). I watched the song ' oru koppaiyile en kiduiruppu'..... I couldn't believe the notion Kannadasan would consume alcohol! Now people remeber him for ...' arthamulla Hindu Matham!'.... Who are we to judge others?

My pet pov? All my point of views are my pets! What else can I write in my messages? When I was reading your message in post #13, I was reminded of a song.... To be exact, the following words....

அந்த வேகம் வந்திடும்போது ஒரு வெலி என்பது ஏது?

வாழ்க்கையே கொஞ்ச காலம்தான்
அந்த வாழ்க்கையிலே வாலிபம் கொஞ்ச நேரம்தான்..

In that song, they are married couple. Watch the girl.. so subtle in calling him...

Kadhal Enbathu pothu udamai (Palaivana Rojakkal) - YouTube

Cheers!