[MannoFr]

Pricking finger tip is the first step to get blood drop sample for glucose test!

You are right. You use tiny lancets which are commercially available in sterile package. As an extra precaution you should wipe the area of the finger with an alcohol swab (to prevent any surface contamination from entering the blood stream) and wipe off the blood and clean the surface with the same swab after the sample has been drawn into glucose strip to prevent any further infection.

[Lt_Apple]

Is Dr. James Crawford a layman?

Dr. Crawford is a scientist with a fifty year history of biomedical research.

[Peptobismol]

Is Dr. James Crawford a layman?

Dr. Crawford is a scientist with a fifty year history of biomedical research.

I did not say Dr. Crawford as a layman.

My post contained two sections. The first part mentioned the symptoms that can be recognized by the layman in simple language.

The second part described what kind of stroke, how did it manifest, and what were the consequences since he shared those experiences with me.

If you tried to make a connection between the two parts, it is like tying moTTait talai with muzhangAl.

In one sense all of us are laymen. Unless you personally experience a stroke for a second time when you can recall the first stroke incident, you are a layman even if you are a doctor. When something hits you you are in a shock even though you may have read about it when it happened to others. Suppose we have a woman who is pregnant and gives birth to a baby, the obstetrician may be helping her deliver and knows the procedures. But he does not know the actual experience of the mother. Only the mother knows.

[doctorzlo]

Anybody can define a word as they want to suit their fancy.
There are standard definition which is accepted by the world.

A layperson or layman is a person who is not an expert in a given field of knowledge. The term originally meant a member of the laity, i.e. a non-clergymen, but over the centuries shifted in definition.
The concept of describing something in layman's terms has come into wide use in the English-speaking world. To put something in layman's terms is to describe a complex or technical issue using words and terms that the average individual (someone without professional training in the subject area) can understand, so that they may comprehend the issue to some degree.


A layman can not detect a stroke. An EMT person may hypothesis a stroke and act accordingly. The Emergency room physician after diagnosis and scans may come to a preliminary diagnosis of stroke. The radiologist will confirm the diagnosis after full study. The doctor treating him may treat for the stroke.

Bleeding a person for treatment was 14th century method.

[Paul Bunyan]

Very Good Morning Brahmanyan sir, Yes sir I received this as a forward mail a couple of weeks ago.,sir one thing we have to be clear to know certain things that are very vital for all. this STROKE condition occur mainly due to disturbance / block to the higher centers -brain . afall /faint can occur due to many conditions due to origin ,but to find the proper diagonisis and eventually implication of treatment is very crucial. a victim due to STROKE ,can be asked to elicit few actions ,there by the rush for treatment is done at once ,here TIME is the vital factor ,when delayed can result in medical emergency,permanent damages. the victim /person can be asked 1. to rise the arm/arms 2. to smile 3.to attempt to speak /talk few words 4.to attempt few steps to walk. these few steps can very easily assist , identify the true picture as a person when being attack by stroke cannot elicit proper smile ,the affected side on face get deviated ,cannot talk ,pronounce few words ,leads to slurred speech ,he / she cannot move his/ her arms ,legs to elicit the action of walk ,raising the arms of the affected site. so these take only few minutes to know the picture of patient ,and at once has to be taken to the hospital for the proper treatment ,as first hand line of treatment ASPIRIN has to be given .hope that one knows the value of time and people.

[brraverishhh]

Very Good Morning Brahmanyan sir, Yes sir I received this as a forward mail a couple of weeks ago.,sir one thing we have to be clear to know certain things that are very vital for all. this STROKE condition occur mainly due to disturbance / block to the higher centers -brain . afall /faint can occur due to many conditions due to origin ,but to find the proper diagonisis and eventually implication of treatment is very crucial. a victim due to STROKE ,can be asked to elicit few actions ,there by the rush for treatment is done at once ,here TIME is the vital factor ,when delayed can result in medical emergency,permanent damages. the victim /person can be asked 1. to rise the arm/arms 2. to smile 3.to attempt to speak /talk few words 4.to attempt few steps to walk. these few steps can very easily assist , identify the true picture as a person when being attack by stroke cannot elicit proper smile ,the affected side on face get deviated ,cannot talk ,pronounce few words ,leads to slurred speech ,he / she cannot move his/ her arms ,legs to elicit the action of walk ,raising the arms of the affected site. so these take only few minutes to know the picture of patient ,and at once has to be taken to the hospital for the proper treatment ,as first hand line of treatment ASPIRIN has to be given .hope that one knows the value of time and people.

Dear Doctor,
Very Good morning.
Thanks and thanks a lot for the valuable information.
Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

[HedgeYourBets]

Hello Brahmanyan sir , knowledge is to be shared. since its a medical condition ,awareness is very crucial.thanks for your concern.

[LottiFurmann]

Dr. Narayani,
Thanks for bringing some sense to this topic.
I want people to look at the following site for additional comment on this topic from the medical professional.

NeuroLogica Blog » Needle Nonsense for Stroke

Like most medical advice dispensed in the form of a chain e-mail message, it has no scientific basis. In fact, following its advice can do harm.


Forcing a stroke victim to sit up is never a good idea, because it can cause a drop in blood pressure, says Dr. Larry B. Goldstein, director of the Duke Stroke Center.


It would be better to help the person lie down.


Pricking the victim’s finger is also a bad idea, not only because it is futile, but because doing so can delay medical treatment, which is the only thing that can help.


THE BOTTOM LINE Only emergency medical treatment can help a stroke victim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/health/21real.html

Bloodletting (or blood-letting) is the withdrawal of often little quantities of blood from a patient to cure or prevent illness and disease. Bloodletting was based on an ancient system of medicine in which blood and other bodily fluid were considered to be "humors" the proper balance of which maintained health. It was the most common medical practice performed by doctors from antiquity up to the late 19th century, a time span of almost 2,000 years. The practice has now been abandoned for all except a few very specific conditions. It is conceivable that historically, in the absence of other treatments for hypertension, bloodletting could sometimes have had a beneficial effect in temporarily reducing blood pressure by a reduction in blood volume. However, since hypertension is very often asymptomatic and thus undiagnosable without modern methods, this effect was unintentional. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the historical use of bloodletting was harmful to patients.

[softy54534]

You are right. You use tiny lancets which are commercially available in sterile package. As an extra precaution you should wipe the area of the finger with an alcohol swab (to prevent any surface contamination from entering the blood stream) and wipe off the blood and clean the surface with the same swab after the sample has been drawn into glucose strip to prevent any further infection.

Sri. Mahakavi, Greetings.

Alcohol swabs should not be used before pricking the finger tips for checking Blood Glucose Level ( BGL). Should be washed only with plain water. The sugar content in the alcohol swab will always show an higher BGL. The biggest risk in that is, administering extra insulin than required if that person is on a sliding scale insulin dosage due to the error in reading the BGL value.

Cheers!

[Big A]

Wow!! One day I was not in forum and so much I missed.
Today the conference I attended had lots of info on stroke.

I should have brought my lap top logged in to TB forum and asked the Consultant there for his opinion about some "very interesting" facts here.

Dr Narayani,Raghy and Prasad and Brahmanyan ji....take good care of this thread till I am back from day 2 of the conference tomorrow.

I am sure you guys get what I mean!!LOL

Note: I would not want to discredit any form of alternative medicine but its just that stroke isn't all about Bleeding and Burst vessels alone.
Aspirin is also only given in Ischeamic Strokes(now there are newer anti clotting agents).
Aspirin is NOT given for Strokes caused by Intracranial Bleed.

Ok would like to share this with you guys:

The Neurologist who gave a lecture today was saying NOT to take Giddiness lightly.
He said there are cases of Ischeamic Stroke which only present with sudden onset of giddiness and nothing else.
Patient could be walking around normally and talking normally.

The neurologist also mentioned if patient is having other risk factors like Hypertension and Diabetes consider doing a MRI brain if giddiness is sudden in onset so that we DO NOT miss out a subclinical stroke.

So do not take giddiness too lightly.
These days lots of diseases are having atypical presentations.

[Big A]

Wow!! One day I was not in forum and so much I missed.
Today the conference I attended had lots of info on stroke.

I should have brought my lap top logged in to TB forum and asked the Consultant there for his opinion about some "very interesting" facts here.

Dr Narayani,Raghy and Prasad and Brahmanyan ji....take good care of this thread till I am back from day 2 of the conference tomorrow.

I am sure you guys get what I mean!!LOL

Note: I would not want to discredit any form of alternative medicine but its just that stroke isn't all about Bleeding and Burst vessels alone.
Aspirin is also only given in Ischeamic Strokes(now there are newer anti clotting agents).
Aspirin is NOT given for Strokes caused by Intracranial Bleed.

Ok would like to share this with you guys:

The Neurologist who gave a lecture today was saying NOT to take Giddiness lightly.
He said there are cases of Ischeamic Stroke which only present with sudden onset of giddiness and nothing else.
Patient could be walking around normally and talking normally.

The neurologist also mentioned if patient is having other risk factors like Hypertension and Diabetes consider doing a MRI brain if giddiness is sudden in onset so that we DO NOT miss out a subclinical stroke.

So do not take giddiness too lightly.
These days lots of diseases are having atypical presentations.

We miss you, and your wise counsel.

King Solomon wrote, "Listen to wise advice; follow it closely, for it will do you good, and you can pass it on to others".

[tgs]

Hello Brahmanyan sir , knowledge is to be shared. since its a medical condition ,awareness is very crucial.thanks for your concern.

Dear Doctor,

True , your words echo that of my cousin Dr.H.Srinivasan, who believed ."The goal of science is to add to knowledge, that is to improve our understanding of some aspect of the world around us and for that purpose, like money, knowledge must also be spread”. I have written his Biography in my Blog URL of which is given hereunder:
Biography
Also time permits I would like you to read his "Dr.Venkataswamy Oration ", which will give an idea about this Doctor:
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/b.../1/pl04002.pdf
Mrs. Visalakshi Ramani has posted this biography in six parts (#480 to #485) under her famous thread " From Adam to Zeus....through all men and Gods"(#59) in "Tamil Brahmins Forum"

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

[Ifroham4]

Sri. Mahakavi, Greetings.

Alcohol swabs should not be used before pricking the finger tips for checking Blood Glucose Level ( BGL). Should be washed only with plain water. The sugar content in the alcohol swab will always show an higher BGL. The biggest risk in that is, administering extra insulin than required if that person is on a sliding scale insulin dosage due to the error in reading the BGL value.

Cheers!

By alcohol swabs I mean those that are clinical products such as sold in a pharmacy in individual sealed packs. They are not "alcohol" --the one you consume. It is a synthetic swatch soaked in isopropyl alcohol sealed in a paper pouch whose inside is aluminized. It is the recommended procedure for skin prick to test bloood glucose. The other procedure is soap and water which is a cumbersome procedure. The swab does not have any sugar/glucose. Even absolute ethanol (95% ethanol--5% water) does not have any glucose in it. But as I said you can use the alcohol swabs sold in the pharmacy without any problem. Ask your pharmacist. Don't soak your finger in beer though, before pricking it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[softy54534]

Is Dr. James Crawford a layman?

Dr. Crawford is a scientist with a fifty year history of biomedical research.

Originally the term "layman" was used to describe anybody outside of clergy. Let us not get into that.

Webster defines layman as : a person who is not a member of a given profession, as law or medicine.

There you go. Biomedical research is not "medicine". A bio-medical scientist cannot practice medicine or be a member of the American Medical Association.

[Peptobismol]

Anybody can define a word as they want to suit their fancy.
There are standard definition which is accepted by the world.


A layman can not detect a stroke. An EMT person may hypothesis a stroke and act accordingly. The Emergency room physician after diagnosis and scans may come to a preliminary diagnosis of stroke. The radiologist will confirm the diagnosis after full study. The doctor treating him may treat for the stroke.

Read my post #20. I said a layman can "recognize" a stroke by the symptoms I described. It can be a wrong diagnosis. So is the heartburn ( a misnomer,, used even by physicians) to describe acid reflux problem. For that matter in many disease cases even doctors cannot detect nor know what causes it. The latter case diseases are called "idiopathic".

There is a difference between "recognize' and "detect".

[radikal]

Half knowledge is worse than ignorance « Confessions of an Innovative Mind
Half knowledge is worse than ignorance.

But pretention of knowing a knowledge field, just because I can spell that field is even worse.
I do not have a PHD, I am only an engineer.
In a scientific study you have to have proof of occurrence of repeatable events with similar results. There is TV show in USA, called Mythe busters. The routinely take up urban legends and chaine-mail topics and show how wrong they are.

[Fegasderty]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka , Greetings.

The Neurologist who gave a lecture today was saying NOT to take Giddiness lightly.
He said there are cases of Ischeamic Stroke which only present with sudden onset of giddiness and nothing else.
Patient could be walking around normally and talking normally. I thought giddiness along with a very brief period of backout was the indication for stroke. Persons with primary high blood pressue are susceptible to this, aren't they?

I have primary high blood pressure. Such blood pressures are not secondary to some other issues; so, quite hard to treat ( that is, there is no cure now). Few years back, I used to get giddiness and a brief period of blackout ( up to 3 seconds). ( due to the blackout, I used to loose my balance too). Every blackout was a mini-stroke! ( But I won't die of cardiac condition!... I will die of choking! Recently I choked at work... It was quite nasty. The trouble is, if I choke on nothing, there can't be much of first aid available for that!).

Usuually high blood pressure condition is coupled with head ache. Severe head ache and restlessness. My BP has gone up to 180/130 mmHg. When I gave up smoking, my BP was all over the place. i did have brief periods of chest pain too. I dismissed them as 'heart burns'. Heart burns and Chest pain have very similar symptoms. I did have chest pain at those times when I gave up smoking; I found out in detail much later. Only once my BP was 190/140 mmHg; That was the only time I was slightly scared and immediately took 100mg of asprin. ( I am on regular medications. But sometimes I don't want to take them!).

But for some reason, in India, I found high BP, causes more discomfort. While I was in Bangalore in February, I was actually down with giddiness, inspite of taking my medications regularly! I don't know why though. But here in Brisbane, I could skip those tablets for 2 to 3 days in a row and still nothing happens! Also, I am more active here too!

What ever the case may be, it is better to avoid the siyuation of stroke in the first place.

stroke = High blood pressure + more salt in diet. ( It is very simple; more salt in the system retains more fluid in the system there by increasing pressure)
Stroke = poor venous return and fluid build up. (Exercise, lot of walking improves the venous return).
Stroke = alcohol intake. Alcohol increases the BP. ( Don't know the mechanics of that).

Improvement in life style, regular exercise ( better to walk in your own home. roads are that polluted anyway. Plus the traffic), less salt intake....and regular medical check up would help reduce the stroke possibilities.

Cheers!

[MannoFr]

By alcohol swabs I mean those that are clinical products such as sold in a pharmacy in individual sealed packs. They are not "alcohol" --the one you consume. It is a synthetic swatch soaked in isopropyl alcohol sealed in a paper pouch whose inside is aluminized. It is the recommended procedure for skin prick to test bloood glucose. The other procedure is soap and water which is a cumbersome procedure. The swab does not have any sugar/glucose. Even absolute ethanol (95% ethanol--5% water) does not have any glucose in it. But as I said you can use the alcohol swabs sold in the pharmacy without any problem. Ask your pharmacist. Don't soak your finger in beer though, before pricking it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sri. Mahakavi, Greetings.

I am a qualified Registered Nurse. I know the effects of alcowipe swabs. Also I have observed the small increase in BGL readings. In the aged care settings, I used to be person inchage of hypo-glycemia managing person atleast 5 times in the past 2 years. I am not interested in debating with you. I am sorry. If I am seen using alcowipe before checking BGL, I can land in hot waters! No, thanks!

Cheers!

[NeroASERCH]

Sri. Mahakavi, Greetings.

I am a qualified Registered Nurse. I know the effects of alcowipe swabs. Also I have observed the small increase in BGL readings. In the aged care settings, I used to be person inchage of hypo-glycemia managing person atleast 5 times in the past 2 years. I am not interested in debating with you. I am sorry. If I am seen using alcowipe before checking BGL, I can land in hot waters! No, thanks!

Cheers!

Mr. Mahakavi ji,
I am going to Take cue from Mr Raghy,
I am not interested in debating with you.

[Lt_Apple]

Sri. Mahakavi, Greetings.

I am a qualified Registered Nurse. I know the effects of alcowipe swabs. Also I have observed the small increase in BGL readings. In the aged care settings, I used to be person inchage of hypo-glycemia managing person atleast 5 times in the past 2 years. I am not interested in debating with you. I am sorry. If I am seen using alcowipe before checking BGL, I can land in hot waters! No, thanks!

Cheers!

I don't know what you mean by "small increases in BGL readings". What do you mean by "small"? If you are using a blood glucose meter to measure the glucose in blood repeatedly you will get different readings. A reading of 120 can change to 115 or 125 if you repeat the measurements one after the other. It has nothing to do with wiping with alcohol swabs or not. I repeat, alcohol swabs have no glucose. Alcohols are products obtained from distillation after the products are manufactured. Even absolute ethanol (95% ethanol-5 % water) which is obtained from fermentation liquor by extensive distillation does not contain any sugar. Reason: sugar is a solid and stays back when the alcohol is distilled ( for sugar to come with alcohol as a byproduct it is has to melt first and then boil---sugar has a much higher boiling point---so no chance of sugar going with the alcohol). Isopropyl alcohol (also called rubbing alcohol) which is used in the alcohol swabs is prepared by reacting water with a hydrocarbon called propene. No contact with sugar containing materials at any time. I wonder which hospital is prohibiting you from using the clinical rubbing alcohol swabs while testing blood glucose using finger pricks.