[Paul Bunyan]

I dont know, Sudhama sir...what if we think of it as in praise of God, or Mother India? True, maybe it was written in praise of George V, but that is ok. It is more appropriate to the Vidhata than to the king. Besides, the word Vidhata in Hindi is specifically used to refer to God only...as the ruler of destinies. Surely, no mortal king could aspire to that...and surely, Tagore would have known that truth!!!

[Lt_Apple]

Dear Mr. badri99

The Sanskrit word VIDHAATHA.. can be seen widely used in Poetries of various Indian Languages... praising the Kings and Emperors.

People of olden days including Hindus treated the Kings as DEMI-GODs.

No doubt the Great Bengali-Poet Rabindranath Tagore was a high Linguistic Scholar in several Languages, especialy in Sanskrit, English and Bengali.

But I am unable to understand how you are able to digest an Idea attributed to a Man... after all... that too.. a Dictator...

... Reproduced again ... directing towards the Mother-Land... as Holy as God.

And it is accepted as the National-Anthem.. Great Pride of the Nation !!

[tgs]

Thanks for the info. Honestly, I have forgotten the meaning of our NA.

[Drugmachine]

was ur father dismissed for singing jana-gana-mana in british period?because it means jana-gana-mana turned into a patriotic song in british rule itself....

i guess, it not turned into british period itself. after the independence only, indian government edited some lines and make it as national anthem, maybe its in first republic day (not sure about it, i heard abt it somewhere).

[Fegasderty]

This was not composed for the sake of India... but for the sake of...

... The then British-Emperor... GEORGE VI .. on the eve of his Coronotation... addressing him and praising him.... as...

... You the Glorious Ruler of a Great Country India....

... Jaya-Hae ( Let Victory be for you)... OUR EMPEROR the Worshipful !!!

The next Line omltted by the India Government... (which I remember well even now... )... praises the Emperors Throne.

I know there is a big controversy about the National Anthem (and always was, so much so that even in 1950 the Government adopted did not dare let the Constituent Assembly select the National Anthem but instead decided it itself). The reason many people believe that it was written for the king is that many papers reported it as having been sung to welcome the Emperor when it was first sung. But this is what Tagore himself had to say about who Jana Gana Mana was addressed to:

"A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."

[S.T.D.]

.
Jana Gana Mana ATHI-NAYAKA ..Jaya Hae.!!.

Athi-Nayaka = Supreme Ruler / Chakravarthi / Emperor

Jana-gana Mana Athi Nayaka = The Emperor who rules over all the varities of People... along with their Minds (Occupying their Minds)

The Composer, Dr Rabindranath Tagore is no doubt .. one of the Great Sons of India...

He added pride to the Nation, by getting the honour of Nobel-prize, for his Geethanjali.

His high sense of patriotism towards his Motherland India.. exhibited in his other works, speeches and actions are UNQUESTIONABLE and NON-DUBIOUS.

But why he composed this Bengali Poem alone.. addressing the then British Ruler.?.. is a Mystery... yet to be unravelled.!

In reply to volley of Questions and Criticisms from all over india and abroad... mostly from Bengalis themselves...

.. he had to give some reply.. and so he had given...

How far it is convincing or agreeable to the common-man... is left to the individual discretion. ..It varies from person to person.

During one of the Annual Conferences of the then Congress party.. held at Calcutta (present Kolkata)...

.. presided over by the then President of the party... Mr. Subhash Chandra Bose...

...this Bengali-poem was sung in Chorus.. as the Prayer Song... excluding the Two Stanzas.. first and the last ones (which only specifically mentions the Emperor George VI)

... Nobody raised any objection.

Then it became customary to sing in chorus for every Congress conference, Meetings and Sessions as the authentic Prayer Song for the then Congress party.

So there is No wonder.. that the Congress-party custom... extended to the National Anthem too.
.

[softy54534]

.But why he composed this Bengali Poem alone.. addressing the then British Ruler.?.. is a Mystery... yet to be unravelled.! .

There was a lot of good feeling for George V then, especially among Bengalis, because he had said he would undo the Partition of Bengal. But Tagore always insisted that despite that, he could not write in praise of George V and wrote in praise of the Supreme Lord.

Perhaps the best thing is for everybody to read the full text in Bengali and English and decide for themselves whether Tagore was talking about George V or the Supreme Ruler. Both were posted on the Hub a long time ago:

http://forumhub.com/indcmusic/26575.16758.12.52.07.html

[Paul Bunyan]

Since we are talking about Jana Gana Mana, here is the text of the Hindustani translation which Netaji adopted for Azad Hind. The translation was jointly made by Netaji and Abid Hasan.

The words are beautiful, they have so much feeling and devotion:

Shubh Sukh Chain ki barkha barse
Bharat bhag hai jaga

Punjab, Sind, Gujrat, Maratha, Dravid, Utkal, Banga
Chanchal Sagar Vindh Himala; Nila Jamuna Ganga
Tere nit gun gayen
tujh se jiwan paen;
Sab tan paye asha.
Suraj ban kar jag par chamke, Bharat nam subhaga
Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya ho,
Bharat naam Subhaga.

Sab ke dil men prit basae teri mithi bani
Har subeke rahne wale; har mazhab ke prani
Sab bhed aur farak mita ke;
sab god me teri ake,
Goondhe prem ki mala
Suraj ban kar jag par chamke, Bharat nam subhaga
Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya ho,
Bharat naam Subhaga.

Subh savere pankh pakharu; tere hi gun gayen
Bas bhari bharpur hawaen; jiwan men rut layen
Sab mil kar Hind pukaren;
Jai Azad Hind ke nare
Pyara desh hamara
Suraj ban kar jag par chamke, Bharat nam subhaga
Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya ho, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya, Jaya ho
Bharat naam Subhaga.

[Beerinkol]

sudhaama sr,

if the first and last stanzas were left out and sang as a custom in congress meeting....anyone of those could have ben selected as national anthem...why did they select the controversial first stanza

[MannoFr]

sudhaama sr,

if the first and last stanzas were left out and sang as a custom in congress meeting....anyone of those could have ben selected as national anthem...why did they select the controversial first stanza

No. I have Not SAID SO. Please go through my posting once again. However I clarify further...

This Bengali-poem of high classical value contains several stanzas, out of which

.. ONLY TWO STANZAS IN THE MIDDLE... have been adopted for National Anthem... as it was... without any change.

The first and the last stanzas specifically mentions the Emperor George VI.

One of the middle lines... which alone, I remember now...

Aha raha thava aahvaana prachaaritha sunidhava hudhaara vaanhi

Hindhu Bouddha Sikha Jaina Paarasika musalmaana Kristhaani

Pooraba paschima aashae, THAVA SIMHAASANA paashae, prema- haara Jaya gaatha.!

Jana-gana Aikya Vidhaayaka Jaya Hae.! Bhaaratha Bhaagya Vidhaatha.!

Jaya Hae.! Jaya Hae! Jaya Jaya Jaya Hae.!

Please note the Block-lettered words.. THAVA -SIMHAASANA.. meaning YOUR THRONE.

Although it was accepted by the Congress party as their Prayer-Song... deemed for the Nation...

Non-congressmen Elite dignitaries all over India... vehemently objected. Especially the Bengali Intellectuals vociferously opposed to its acceptance in the dubious sense for the Nation.

There was volley of Pro and Anti Letters to Editors in the Leading National dailies.

Maximum objection was reported in the Calcutta-based .. AMRITHA BAZAAR PATHRIKA...a reputed Patriotic Daily Newspaper of highest Circulation in West Bengal even now-a-days.
How far that Patriotic Bengali Newspaper was Anti-British-rulers... can be understood by its Revolutionary History.

Its publications were banned by British rulers several times and got resurrections by the repeated intervention of the Privy Counncil at London... after their Legal battle.

Finally their Legal case failed there too.. since was ordered for the ultimate closure of that Newspaper.

On hearing such a Supreme judgement...the Bengali people felt sure to lose that valuable Newspaper bringing out the hard truth afresh daily..

... But were wonderstruck to find the same Newspaper... under the same Name again in the market right on the next morning.. UN-INTERRUPTED..

..But... as an ENGLISH Newspaper... turned Overnight... instead of Bengali language... previous shape

.. which Revolutionary Message was an International News... first and the last so far, globally.

Even such a Great Patriotic Newspaper vehemently criticised in its Editorial...

... and opposed introduction of this Emperor-addressed Poem to transform as the Prayer song for a Freedom-fighting National party.

And the Press-reporters sought the reply from the then Secretary of the Congress party.

His reply was thus...

"We are concerned only with the wordings presently accepted for the purpose... which in no way means or denotes the Emperor...

... and so can be meant to address the Nation also.

We badly sought after a Prayer Song as the dire need of the day. No other song in any language... including Hindi, so impressive and brief.. imbued with high sense... was available to us. So we have adopted an apt part of it... which suits our purpose.

It has been duly passed by a Resolution in our General body meeting. Further we are not interested to elaborate. It is radically an Internal affair of the party.

But .. Finally it became the NATIONAL ANTHEM too.
.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

thanks sudhaama sir...now understood!

regarding converting into english newspaper within a night.. waahhh...

[Drugmachine]

The song, as adopted as India's National Anthem

Jônogônomono-odhinaeoko jôeô he Bharotobhaggobidhata!
Pônjabo Shindhu Gujorato Môratha Drabido Utkôlo Bônggo,
Bindho Himachôlo Jomuna Gôngga Uchchhôlojôlodhitoronggo,
Tôbo shubho name jage, tôbo shubho ashish mage,
Gahe tôbo jôeogatha.
Jônogônomonggolodaeoko jôeô he Bharotobhaggobidhata!
Jôeo he, jôeo he, jôeo he, jôeo jôeo jôeo, jôeo he!

The literal meaning of the song (in dark blue)

Jônogônomono-odhinaeoko jôeô he = Hail to the ruler of the minds of all people

Bharotobhaggobidhata = The dispenser of Bharat's destiny

Pônjabo Shindhu Gujorato Môratha Drabido Utkôlo Bônggo Bindho Himachôlo = Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, Maratha, Dravida, Utkala (Orissa), Bengal, Vindhyas, Himachal

Jomuna Gôngga Uchchhôlojôlodhitoronggo = The mingling water waves of Jamuna and the Ganges

Tôbo shubho name jage = They rise with thy noble name

Tôbo shubho ashish mage = They seek thy noble blessings

Gahe tôbo jôeogatha = They sing thy praise

Jônogônomonggolodaeoko jôeô he = Hail to the warden of all people

Bharotobhaggobidhata = The dispenser of Bharat's destiny

Jôeo he, jôeo he, jôeo he, jôeo jôeo jôeo, jôeo he = Hail to thee, hail to thee, hail to thee, hail, hail, hail, hail to thee

[tgs]

ROHIT...thanks for giving a very simple explanation for our national anthem

You are most welcome, Thimuru.

[9mm_fan]

rohit..whom do u believe rabindranath tagore denoted there?

the ALMIGHTY or the king

[tgs]

The use of words; hail, ruler, dispenser of destiny, noble, blessings, praise and warden clearly reveals the poet's impulsive state of mind while composing the song under specific conditions and situations of the time.

When one hears such an impulsive song, hailing a ruler as noble, casting him as the warden of nation, seeking his blessings; and praising him as the dispenser of nation's destiny; one obviously hears an honest declaration of the poet's feelings of subordination and his total submission to the higher authority.

Now the most puzzling question is, who was that higher authority or the dispenser of nation's destiny, the poet really intended to please?

Was it God or the King?

If God was the dispenser of nation's destiny in the poet's mind; then the poet must have been absolutely dumb not have grasped the fact that it must be God, who dispensed the destiny of entire Bharat to be invaded by the foreigners in the first place. It must be God, who dispensed the destiny of hundreds of millions of people to be enslaved under the foreign rulers, making them utterly destitute for over a thousand years.

If the King was the dispenser of nation's destiny in the poet's mind, no contradiction arises and the entire song perfectly fits in with the special occasion for which the song was composed and sung in the first place.

Then, how come the poet was compelled to write such a song, praising such a tyrant?

The answer is very simple.

The demands, conditions and situations of the time compelled the poet to write such a disguising song, which he did quite well.

[doctorzlo]

... Now the most puzzling question is, who was that higher authority or the dispenser of nation's destiny, the poet really intended to please?

Was it God or a King?

If the dispenser of nation's destiny was God in the poet's mind; then the poet must have been absolutely dumb not have grasped the fact that it was God, who dispensed the destiny of entire Bharat to be invaded by foreigners in the first place. It was God, who dispensed the destiny of hundreds of millions of people to be enslaved under the foreign rulers, making them utterly destitute for over a thousand years.

If the dispenser of nation's destiny was a King in the poet's mind, no contradiction arises and the entire song perfectly fits in with the special occasion for which the song was written and sung in the first place.

Then, how come the poet was compelled to write such a song, praising such a tyrant?

The answer is very simple.

The demands, conditions and situations of the time compelled the poet to write such a disguising song, which he did quite well.

If one studies the Total version of the Poem... he can find CATEGORICALLY ... and Undoubtedly...

.. that the Great Poet Dr Ravindranath Tagore... has clearly and specifically ATTRIBUTES the whole Poem ONLY AND ONLY to the British Emperor for Coronation... i.e. George VI

At that time...this point and sense towards the British Emperor, were never disputed by the Critics and Opposers even by the Bengalis (who ALWAYS regard Dr Tagore very highly). But only wondered. and PERPLEXED!

No doubt, in the sense of Bengali Language .. it is a Beautiful Poem of high classical sense... with Great Poetical Values

Even the Congress party has adopted only two stanzas... which are commonly ATTRIBUTIVE terminologies...

...applicable and meant for anybody in Power or Throne ruling over India... AT ANY TIME... PAST OR PRESENT.

But the then Congress party... DEEMED the Vidhaatha as the BHARATHA- MAATHA...

... the Ruler MOTHER INDIA..!!
..

[Drugmachine]

If one studies the Total version of the Poem... he can find CATEGORICALLY ... and Undoubtedly...

.. that the Great Poet Dr Ravindranath Tagore... has clearly and specifically ATTRIBUTES the whole Poem ONLY AND ONLY to the British Emperor for Coronation... i.e. George VI..

Dear Sudhaama,

Despite of past discordance, we are in total accordance with each other on an issue for the first time!

Isn't that wonderfully phenomenal?

[Peptobismol]

But the then Congress party... DEEMED the Vidhaatha as the BHARATHA- MAATHA...

... the Ruler MOTHER INDIA..!!..

A land can rule neither people nor can it rule itself nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of people nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of itself.

Only the people of land can rule others or can be ruled by the people of other lands.

Therefore, Bharath Maatha or Mother India cannot be entitled as the ruler or bhagyavidhaatha of itself and/or her people i.e. the ruler and dispenser of the destiny of itself and/or her people, I am afraid.

I would pity those who would give credence to such absurdities.

[Drugmachine]

Originally Posted by Sudhaama But the then Congress party... DEEMED the Vidhaatha as the BHARATHA- MAATHA...

... the Ruler MOTHER INDIA..!!..

A land can rule neither people nor can it rule itself nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of people nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of itself.

Only the people of land can rule others or can be ruled by the people of other lands.

Therefore, Bharath Maatha or Mother India cannot be entitled as the ruler or bhagyavidhaatha of itself and/or her people i.e. the ruler and dispenser of the destiny of itself and/or her people, I am afraid.

I would pity those who would give credence to such absurdities. No No. It should not be treated so cheap as ABSURD.

Such a MOTHER-LAND Spirit is the Global phenomena of any Country national...

.. since it is the Rudimentary spirit as the Foundation as well as the Starting point towards UNITY of all the Citizens of various hues...

... under One Common Umbrella... on the Sole-basis of ONE NATION- BORN... deemed Single National-Family.

If such a basic Web-spirit is not harboured amongst its people...

.. any country will break up into splinters on the basis of different Sub- classifications like Languages, Religions, Sub-Culture, Natural-wealth regionally, Ethnics, Ancestry etc.

The present Younger generation can neither realise nor truly understand the History ..

...nor the justification for Selfless Sacrifices of lakhs of people.. on Freedom struggle...

... unless they deeply perceive into the purpose and advantage of One-ness amongst the Common people .. UNARMED sufferers...

Rather the BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER HAVE TO FLOCK TOGETHER always... for Survival.

So such a Basic National-spirit is constantly reminded and maintained... amongst the People...

... and the maximum in case of the Military-forces...

.. through Chorus-Singing or Instrument-play of National-anthem... during important functions and celebrations..

... appilicable for any Nation.!!
.

[Lillie_Steins]

Originally Posted by Rohit Originally Posted by Sudhaama But the then Congress party... DEEMED the Vidhaatha as the BHARATHA- MAATHA...

... the Ruler MOTHER INDIA..!!..

A land can rule neither people nor can it rule itself nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of people nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of itself.

Only the people of land can rule others or can be ruled by the people of other lands.

Therefore, Bharath Maatha or Mother India cannot be entitled as the ruler or bhagyavidhaatha of itself and/or her people i.e. the ruler and dispenser of the destiny of itself and/or her people, I am afraid.

I would pity those who would give credence to such absurdities. No No. It should not be treated so cheap as ABSURD.

Such a MOTHER-LAND Spirit is the Global phenomena of any Country national...

.. since it is the Rudimentary spirit as the Foundation as well as the Starting point towards UNITY of all the Citizens of various hues...

... under One Common Umbrella... on the Sole-basis of ONE NATION- BORN... deemed Single National-Family.

If such a basic Web-spirit is not harboured amongst its people...

.. any country will break up into splinters on the basis of different Sub- classifications like Languages, Religions, Sub-Culture, Natural-wealth regionally, Ethnics, Ancestry etc.

The present Younger generation can neither realise nor truly understand the History ..

...nor the justification for Selfless Sacrifices of lakhs of people..
on Freedom struggle

... unless they deeply perceive into the purpose and advantage of One-ness amongst the Common-succours...

...rather the BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER HAVE TO FLOCK TOGETHER... always.
. I am sorry, but the notions of unity and nationalism belong only to the people of the land and not to the land itself; and therefore, their true realisations also lie with the people of the land and not with the land itself.

Therefore, no amount of any diverted explanations can rationalise the absurdity conveyed in the statement:

But the then Congress party... DEEMED the Vidhaatha as the BHARATHA- MAATHA...

... the Ruler MOTHER INDIA..!!.. If anything, they would spark the same fury and controversies as it is currently with the song; "Vande Mathram.."

Therefore, I shall maintain what I have stated in my previous post that:

A land can rule neither people nor can it rule itself nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of people nor can it become the bhagyavidhata of itself.

Only the people of land can rule others or can be ruled by the people of other lands.

Therefore, Bharath Maatha or Mother India cannot be entitled as the ruler or bhagyavidhaatha of itself and/or her people i.e. the ruler and dispenser of the destiny of itself and/or her people, I am afraid.

Therefore, I pity those who give credence to such absurdities.