[Fegasderty]

Originally Posted by Raghu
4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

This is not convincing for me raghu. Evolution is scientific...
but that evolution process is BEAUTIFULY explaiend in DASAVATAR of lord VISHNU!

[S.T.D.]

As I understand it:

What is re-incarnation? The Process in which the soul goes into a different body judged by the Karma it has gotten in it's past lives.

How does it happen? This...I'm not sure of... I hope other learned hubbers can let us know. (Sudhamma Ji)

How bout taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives? Doesn't the past Karma of a soul also determine if they're human or other beings? We've gone through several births and several beings to be reincarnated as a human.

How scientific is this theory? I don't think it's been proven yet. It doesn't mean that this theory isn't true. What we define as "Science" is what Scientists have Discovered. And Scientists haven't discovered enough to prove this. That's all that means.

[radikal]

First of all.. it is not accurate to analyse the precise workings of the Soul with a notion of current science or mathematics.

That is why most Spiritual Masters don't stress on a direct reading of the vedanta or any such treatise without first purifying the mind.

Chitta shuddi (a pure mind) is of prime importance. Without it, no amount of intellectual knowledge will help. Once chitta-shuddi is achieved, the true nature of the Soul/OneSelf will automatically be real-ised.

So there is no means whatsoever by which the following ideas or theories about the workings of the Soul could be validated. One simply has to find one's own damn way out and finally one always does. I guess that means don't ask whether or how they are true.

Chitta shuddhi is all that is to be strived for.Oh, chitta shuddhi has its immense material benefits too, though that will seem secondary as one progresses towards it). Reality will then reveal itself completely once that is done.

contd.....
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[NeroASERCH]

nor a Creator God exists However, you cannot disprove the existance of God. Therefore, all reasoning immediatly following this postulate can be considered null and void, since the initial premise itself is faulty.

Enjoy the delirium!

[LottiFurmann]

Lets discuss about (AMICABLY PLEASE) ...

belief in re-incarnation acc to diff religious beliefs
and also athiest or agnostics views.

What is re-incarnation?
How does it happen?
Does it happen?
How bout taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?
How scientific is this theory?

[softy54534]

Maitree,

I am quite unsure as to how compliacted formation of humans can fit back into lower organisms.

Logic does not work according to me.

[S.T.D.]

SP, This is my opinion on the concept of soul, my understanding or misunderstanding, logic or the lack of thereof. If ever there were an entity invented for human wish-fulfillment, the soul is that entity. We beleive that one has lived before and will live again in another body after death and that the bodies one passes in and out of need not be human. One may have been a Doberman in a past life, and one may be a mite or a carrot in a future life. Like some tribes avoid eating certain animals because they beleive that the souls of their ancestors dwell in those animals. Why, even we beleive that our dead people reapear in the form of crows.

So how did this idea of soul and thereby life after death emerged?
Man generally loves life or fears death. But he is not ignorant of death. By physical experience and logical reasoning he would have established its inevitability. One cannot ignore death. The only way to ignore death would be to HOPE... hope for a life after death, a hope for immortality. But since physical immortality is impossible, his only recourse would be a hope of immortality of Soul. And man is not prepared to abandon this hope. And not only this, the concept of soul has a deep significance in religious beleifs all over the world, all through the history. But why?

To me, the concept of a non-substantial substance itself is a contradiction . Yet, billions of people have believed in a non-spatial percipient which can travel through space and perceive and interpret vibrations and energies in the air or any medium without any sense organs. The concept of soul has been there for centuries. Dualists consider the Soul to be an immaterial substance, capable of existence as a conscious, perceiving entity independent of any physical body. But dualist philosophers have long struggled with what is known as the mind-body problem. Descartes first raised this problem. What is it that makes it possible for two contraries (one spatially existing and the other not) to interact as our Souls seem to with our brains?

But, why would such a beleif start? The ancient people, the nomads, had the beleif in spirits, the ancestor of the ideas of Soul, which they encountered in their dreams. The ancient man saw ghosts of the dead apparently divorced from their bodies in dreams. He concluded that he too had seperable soul. The idea of Soul and thereby Immortality grew naturally out of this. Infact the word Ghost comes from the german whord "Geist" which means both Ghost and Soul. This is basically due to his ignorance of the fact that his mind can form images out of memories, a case mentioned above. The very fact that in sleep the savage saw himself running, hunting, walking, while later he was assured that his body hadn't stirred, convinced him that he had a seperable Soul.

Now to the questions. This concept of souls throws up so many paradoxes that it would be impossible for me to list them now. I will list a few.

The first simple question would be If someone is dead how will anyone (leave alone the dead person himself), know that the soul survived? How will anyone know that his spirit is wandering and enters a new body unless all of these inferences are a result of incompetency of human mind to comprehend extra-physical (mental) discrepancies like dream, delusion and insufficient analysis.

These days the talk is about cloning and genetic engineering. If an embryo is split into two does that split the soul also?

Anything that has a beginning has an end. If souls are indestructible, then earth would be crowded with souls. Imagine the number of people who have lived since earth was formed. If we say they attain mukti, where do they go?

If protozoans have soul, we must remember that they reproduce asexually. A nucleus of the protozoa simply splits into two organism. So how did one soul become two? at wat point of time did the new soul start to get associated with the second organism.

Compare the same with sexual reproduction in higher species. The process is long involving too many factors. Again, at what point of time the new soul emerges?

so wats the common logic behind the point at which the new soul is formed?

I can pile up more number of questions, but wats the use

[Lt_Apple]

I myself have similar questions/ views, and want explanation for similar qustions tv.... lets c if someone answers .

However,

Imagine the number of people who have lived since earth was formed. If we say they attain mukti, where do they go?

If they attain the unity with the source, WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF 'THEY' ?
It just becomes single and merges with the source.

Universe has no beginning or end and is infinite. So what do u mean getting crowded?

Where is the question of getting crowded?

According to me, Soul is NOT A SEPERATE ENTITY to be counted in numbers, as per the existing or existed individuals.


Quoting from "secrets of universe"

"That is because say you have a molecule of any element, you can split that molecule in to several atoms, then each of those atom can be split into electrons, protons and neutrons. Then each of those electrons, protons and neutrons can further be split in to even smaller particles, then those particles can be can be broken down to even smaller particles, then those small one to even smaller, then those smaller one and those smaller particles can continue to be split up or broken down to an infinite amount of smaller particles, even those infinite one can be broken down to a still infinite amount of smaller particles and you could continue for ever and never stop. When you say each of neutrons, protons and electrons can be further split infinite times and YET NOT BECOME CROWDED, same theory holds good for souls too

As far as I understand, souls are nothing but energised magnetic particles with imprints if any

[Big A]

So how did this idea of soul and thereby life after death emerged?
Man generally loves life or fears death. But he is not ignorant of death. By physical experience and logical reasoning he would have established its inevitability. One cannot ignore death. The only way to ignore death would be to HOPE... hope for a life after death, a hope for immortality. But since physical immortality is impossible, his only recourse would be a hope of immortality of Soul. And man is not prepared to abandon this hope. And not only this, the concept of soul has a deep significance in religious beleifs all over the world, all through the history. But why? Good Point...

When you say each of neutrons, protons and electrons can be further split infinite times and YET NOT BECOME CROWDED, same theory holds good for souls too Good Point, and I'm Lost...

[tgs]

When you say each of neutrons, protons and electrons can be further split infinite times and YET NOT BECOME CROWDED, same theory holds good for souls too

Good Point, and I'm Lost... Everybody are !

and.. We are trying to find our way.
Some may... .. and
Some wont ...

[Ifroham4]

[Fegasderty]

SP acca,


1) What is re-incarnation?

Atma transmigrating from body to body according to the atma's Karma

2)How does it happen?

When your atma leaves the body, i.e, when you die, the soul leaves through the third eye, this is why in Hinduism, Maheshwar has a third eye to represent this, and what ever good karma or bad karma you have done in the current life and ur previous life is calculated and you take a new body according to it... dont ask me how the calculation is done, ONLY ISHWAR knows... and atma attains moksha or Mukthi ONLy when the atma realises the ULTIMATE truth AHABRAHMAN and gives up every MATERIAL bonding with this world and surrender UNTO Maheshwar, thus the Atma does not RE-ENTER into the VICIOUS cycle of RE-INCARNATION...
3)Does it happen? I believe it does, for e.g., we suffer for something for which have never committed a crime, for e.g., u never have beaten any 1 b4, in ur life , u walk in the street, some1 hit you and run away or steal you r mobile phone or something, why did this happen? THINK, u probably have committed a similar crime to that atma in ur last life, makes logical sense right?


4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

5) How scientific is this theory?

Hinduism means SPIRITUAL SCIENCE...

[doctorzlo]

4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

This is not convincing for me raghu. Evolution is scientific...

but regression


5) How scientific is this theory?

Hinduism means SPIRITUAL SCIENCE... I agree to a large extent .

[TorryJens]

Reincarnation... in Scientific terms.... very interesting...

Our body is composed of cells which in turn made up of Chemical molecules which in turn made up of atoms which in turn of sub atomic particles which in turn of some finite particles which may in the form of matter or energy or may not exist also (anti-mater). So when our body decomposes (even in our day to day life, we shed lots of death skins) it may become part of another body with or without life. So reincarnation is scientifically possible but whether our mind ( collective intelligence) as whole or takes in to new body with possibility of remembering after decomposing of body is not a proven fact. In Buddhist line reincarnation is very simple. It is just like igniting one candle with another. The new light may be part of the old one, but new one is not the same old one. When our brain cell dies (after certain age, our brain cells die gradually, which is one the reason for loss of memory in old age), we loose all the neural networks and loose all the so called conscious.

[PhillipHer]

Reincarnation... in Scientific terms.... very interesting...

Our body is composed of cells which in turn made up of Chemical molecules which in turn made up of atoms which in turn of sub atomic particles which in turn of some finite particles which may in the form of matter or energy or may not exist also (anti-mater). So when our body decomposes (even in our day to day life, we shed lots of death skins) it may become part of another body with or without life. So reincarnation is scientifically possible but whether our mind ( collective intelligence) as whole or takes in to new body with possibility of remembering after decomposing of body is not a proven fact. In Buddhist line reincarnation is very simple. It is just like igniting one candle with another. The new light may be part of the old one, but new one is not the same old one. When our brain cell dies (after certain age, our brain cells die gradually, which is one the reason for loss of memory in old age), we loose all the neural networks and loose all the so called conscious.

Synchronizes quite a bit with my views rkk .


thanks for ur post.

Can u elaborate on ANTI-matter part

[radikal]

Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha Originally Posted by Raghu
4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

This is not convincing for me raghu. Evolution is scientific...
but that evolution process is BEAUTIFULY explaiend in DASAVATAR of lord VISHNU! I agree raghu. I just feel REGRESSION is beyond me (not evolution)(

[doctorzlo]

SP acca,

4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

Ok, Raghu, a bad human being becomes an animal. Fine.

How can an animal act good to become a human being?

I dont see "reversibility" here!

[Lillie_Steins]

Originally Posted by Raghu SP acca,

4)How about taking incarnation in lower forms of evolved lives?

Gita says, if you indulge your self in EVIL crimes such as slaughtering animals, humans or any living organism, you take a birth as low-level species such as animals...

Ok, Raghu, a bad human being becomes an animal. Fine.

How can an animal act good to become a human being?

I dont see "reversibility" here! ma'am,

AS far as i know, atmas within animal bodies are re-born as animals, this is like an infinte loop?

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

The concept of re-incarnation and re-birth is dealt with in countless times in the Hindu scriptures. The various upanishads like Taittreeya and Manduka and verious other Brahmanas dwell heavily upon these areas. The philosophy of Dvaita and Advaita is based heavily on the concept of re-incarnations and re-birth.

Dvaita concept says that there is a strict distinction between God and the individual living beings (jivas). Souls are not 'created' by God but do nonetheless depend on him for their existence.

The Advaita concept on the other hand says that both are one and the same. Adi Shankaracharya was the propounder of this princile and He wrote commentaries on the Prasthana Trayi. A famous quote from Vivekacutamani, one of his Prakarana granthas (philosophical treatises) that succinctly summarises his philosophy is

Brahma satyam jagat mithyā, jīvo brahmaiva nāparah — Brahman is the only truth, the world is illusion, and there is ultimately no difference between Brahman and individual self

Not only did the Vedic culture believed in it, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Incas,were aware of this concept of re-birth and had many rituals and practices for that.

Now my question, is there a distinction between re-incarnation and re-birth

[HedgeYourBets]

The concept of re-incarnation and re-birth is dealt with in countless times in the Hindu scriptures. The various upanishads like Taittreeya and Manduka and verious other Brahmanas dwell heavily upon these areas. The philosophy of Dvaita and Advaita is based heavily on the concept of re-incarnations and re-birth.

Dvaita concept says that there is a strict distinction between God and the individual living beings (jivas). Souls are not 'created' by God but do nonetheless depend on him for their existence.

The Advaita concept on the other hand says that both are one and the same. Adi Shankaracharya was the propounder of this princile and He wrote commentaries on the Prasthana Trayi. A famous quote from Vivekacutamani, one of his Prakarana granthas (philosophical treatises) that succinctly summarises his philosophy is

Brahma satyam jagat mithyā, jīvo brahmaiva nāparah — Brahman is the only truth, the world is illusion, and there is ultimately no difference between Brahman and individual self

Not only did the Vedic culture believed in it, the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Incas,were aware of this concept of re-birth and had many rituals and practices for that.

Now my question, is there a distinction between re-incarnation and re-birth

If Brahman and the Jiva are the same, then what is it that is being re-incarnated or re-born? One first needs to resolve this one, and then everything becomes clear as to what is reincarnation as opposed to rebirth, if there are any differences at all!