[Raj_Copi_Jin]

If god created man and let him decide his future (this jenma as well as the others, if you belive in reincarnation)based on his karma, this means he has some sort of free will. So the actions of his would decide his future, so continues the path of his soul. If not then god controls/decides his every action/reaction as a set of predetermined steps(which could be predicted by jyothidam or whatever), if that is so why do we have bad things happening around us, is god a sadist ?

[PhillipHer]

"Jyothisha sasthra" is not a science, it may be pseudo science. A simple calculation given at the following link can shatter the entire basics of the so called "extensive calculation"

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...=4841&start=19

[Fegasderty]

The general (mis)conception about Jyothisha sasthra is "it is a myth with no science involved." It is a fashion nowadays to say "hey I dont belive in all this"....

As some (may be many) people who claim themselves to be an "astrologer" start predicting things, which has no credibility, people start thinking that astrology is a hogwash and "Andha Vishawasam" or Mooda nambikkai". If anyone dies becuz of a wrong medication from a person, who claimes to be a doctor, can we call the system a hogwash? Similarly, when a person who doesn't know astrology predicts some thing, there is no guaranty that his prediction will come true....

But, if we look in to Astrology, we can see that it has perfect scientific facts with extensive mathematical calculations inside...This is a great treasure which has been inherited to us by our benovalent ancestors.

In this thread we will discuss the various, scientific and logical aspect of Jyothisha shastra, as quoted in our Puraanas, Ithihaasas and other samhithas......

[LottiFurmann]

In the basic lessons of astrology, the sky around us undertsood to have 360 degrees and this has been divided in to 12 equal sectors giving 30 degrees to each...

Each such 12 sectors are given name as follows...

Mesham
Vrishbham
Mithunam
Katakam
Simham
Kanni
Thulam
Vrischikam
Dhanus
Makaram
Kumbham
Meenam...

Similarly 27 stellar constellation called Nakshathram, which has most influenze on earth has been identified and each such stellar constallation is divided in to 4 equal parts and 2.25 nakshatrams are allocated to one Rasi.....

To be continued...

I requested other hubbers to contribute their valuable knowldge and information about Jyothisham....

[Drugmachine]

Hi Sri ... i believe that Astro is a Science ....
but can u explain about what was said by r_kk above ?

[TorryJens]

For those who know science Jyothisham is not a science for others it could be science and why not geography ?
use of scientific facts and extensive mathematical calculations cannot make an exercise a scientific one. I can say sun rises in the east and 100 + 100 = 200 and so Srivatsan is a simpleton, is this scientific ? It would be just a unscientific correlation between cause and effect. And if srivatsan is really a simpleton can i be called an astrology expert ?

[Beerinkol]

For those who know science Jyothisham is not a science for others it could be science and why not geography ?
use of scientific facts and extensive mathematical calculations cannot make an exercise a scientific one. I can say sun rises in the east and 100 + 100 = 200 and so Srivatsan is a simpleton, is this scientific ? It would be just a unscientific correlation between cause and effect. And if srivatsan is really a simpleton can i be called an astrology expert ?

Mr. Mahadevan, I know how seriously and authoritatively you argue with things....No one will stop you if you are going to call you a scientist...

[Fegasderty]

For those who know science Jyothisham is not a science for others it could be science and why not geography ?
use of scientific facts and extensive mathematical calculations cannot make an exercise a scientific one. I can say sun rises in the east and 100 + 100 = 200 and so Srivatsan is a simpleton, is this scientific ? It would be just a unscientific correlation between cause and effect. And if srivatsan is really a simpleton can i be called an astrology expert ?

This depends on how much science we know . Eastern science is way too advanced for western world to understand. If you want to compare, if you believe in Einstein, please refer to Einstein's parallel universe theorem and the light cone. Look at microscopic theory and macroscopic theory. Western scientists are still baffled by the discontinuity between these two. Even Einstein, Hawking, Penrose and others failed to find the bridge between the macroscopic and microscopic theory. But these are accounted in Eastern science. The missing link is what we call aarudam / sothidam or whatsoever. Western astrology is much different and is not science. But eastern astrology is science.

Ofcourse, you can say that the sun rises in the east and 100 + 100 = 200, but you must be able to derive and relate both. There are a lot of calculations involved in astrology. It is not merely some if-else conditions.

Eastern science is based on a lot of observation and knowledge passed through generations. It was not developed in a day. Western science is hardly around 400 years old - too young to compete with eastern science which is thousands of years old.

[Lillie_Steins]

This depends on how much science we know . Eastern science is way too advanced for western world to understand. If you want to compare, if you believe in Einstein, please refer to Einstein's parallel universe theorem and the light cone. Look at microscopic theory and macroscopic theory. Western scientists are still baffled by the discontinuity between these two. Even Einstein, Hawking, Penrose and others failed to find the bridge between the macroscopic and microscopic theory. But these are accounted in Eastern science. The missing link is what we call aarudam / sothidam or whatsoever. Western astrology is much different and is not science. But eastern astrology is science.

Ofcourse, you can say that the sun rises in the east and 100 + 100 = 200, but you must be able to derive and relate both. There are a lot of calculations involved in astrology. It is not merely some if-else conditions.

Eastern science is based on a lot of observation and knowledge passed through generations. It was not developed in a day. Western science is hardly around 400 years old - too young to compete with eastern science which is thousands of years old.

Good observation after my exams are over, I will start contributing in this thread...as it needs special atttention...in the mean time, I req other hubbers to contribute...

[Beerinkol]

Doubts!
*If a baby borns in places other than India..Say U.S or U.K..What time you will use to design(Right word ) the horoscope?
* Say an astrologer says that if the baby borns in so and so time or so and so day then he/she will lead a prosperous life then if they Pre or Postpon the child birth..then is it against Karma?
* How far 'Numerology' helps a persons growth? Say calling a person as "Rajaa" instead of Raja...How it works out!! Vibrations?? If Vibrations is the reason..What is the need of using it in your signature? Vibrations deals with sound right??

Sorry if my doubts are kiddish because i am weak but curious in this subject.

Thanks,
Sridhar!

[Lillie_Steins]

Doubts!
*If a baby borns in places other than India..Say U.S or U.K..What time you will use to design(Right word ) the horoscope?
* Say an astrologer says that if the baby borns in so and so time or so and so day then he/she will lead a prosperous life then if they Pre or Postpon the child birth..then is it against Karma?
* How far 'Numerology' helps a persons growth? Say calling a person as "Rajaa" instead of Raja...How it works out!! Vibrations?? If Vibrations is the reason..What is the need of using it in your signature? Vibrations deals with sound right??

Sorry if my doubts are kiddish because i am weak but curious in this subject.

Thanks,
Sridhar!

For the first question, horoscope should always be calculated based on the location and local time. Time is a relative measure and depends very much on the location.
For the second, this needs a humongous explanation. To be simple, I shall say "Nature decides what is to happen. We can only observe. We cant change what is destined."
Third: Numerology is a western invention. Though eastern astrology deals with a lot of numbers, it is not based only on the numbers.
Vibrations does help change a lot of things - both physically and psychologically. But adding a character to your signature is not of any use. The way you are called is important, though it is not the only thing influencing your life. For instance, if I change my name to Gates, I am not gonna be rich like him. It, again, is relative to my original horoscope. Actually, my answer to your second question is applicable to this. You wont change your name unless you want to do it. No one can influence you to change your name.
In tamil we call it "vidhi". This is generally translated in english as fate. But english fate is something very different from tamil "vidhi". Vidhi = law - law of the nature. This is what western scientists are trying to find and are failing. The law of nature cant be broken.
This will take more time to explain, as I am unable to do it now, I will explain in detail later.

[Paul Bunyan]

Doubts!
*If a baby borns in places other than India..Say U.S or U.K..What time you will use to design(Right word ) the horoscope?
* Say an astrologer says that if the baby borns in so and so time or so and so day then he/she will lead a prosperous life then if they Pre or Postpon the child birth..then is it against Karma?
* How far 'Numerology' helps a persons growth? Say calling a person as "Rajaa" instead of Raja...How it works out!! Vibrations?? If Vibrations is the reason..What is the need of using it in your signature? Vibrations deals with sound right??

Sorry if my doubts are kiddish because i am weak but curious in this subject.

Thanks,
Sridhar!

Hi You have longitude and Latitude data for any particular place. With this, local Sunrise and Sun set can be found. Once if this is found, then Horoscope can be easily calculated..

[Slonopotam845]

If god created man and let him decide his future (this jenma as well as the others, if you belive in reincarnation)based on his karma, this means he has some sort of free will. So the actions of his would decide his future, so continues the path of his soul. If not then god controls/decides his every action/reaction as a set of predetermined steps(which could be predicted by jyothidam or whatever), if that is so why do we have bad things happening around us, is god a sadist ?

[doctorzlo]

Thanks Manyvan and Srivathsan!

[PhillipHer]

Hai all

I have started learning this great science. By the Divine Grace, pray that I shall master Thoroughly.

[Drugmachine]

Hai all

I have started learning this great science. By the Divine Grace, pray that I shall master Thoroughly.

May Lord Almighty give you all success..pls contribute to the thread!

[Beerinkol]

If god created man and let him decide his future (this jenma as well as the others, if you belive in reincarnation)based on his karma, this means he has some sort of free will. So the actions of his would decide his future, so continues the path of his soul. If not then god controls/decides his every action/reaction as a set of predetermined steps(which could be predicted by jyothidam or whatever), if that is so why do we have bad things happening around us, is god a sadist ?

A very good question indeed. There are two things which guides any "Jeevan" that is born on this earth. "Manusha Yathnam" or Free will and the Second thing is "God's Grace". There is only a very very minute line between these two and it is very very hard to find where, free will ends and God's grace starts....One of our great sages, "Valluvar peruman" has told that

"Deivathaal agadenunum Murchi tham
Meyvartha kooli tharum".

We can take it as a good sprit for going by our Free-will. But how do we know what we do is good at or not....? Only for this purpose, Puraanams & Ithihasams are written. Just to guide us, as there is no strict rules and regulation as what ius correct and what is not....as one rule may be correct at one situation and the same rule may be wrong in some other...

But what are we doing with this Puraanams and Ithihasams? We are arguing in which language it was written, Which part of the world, it happened, BC or AD, Tamizh or Samskritham....and wasting our time and resources.

I repeat, Puraanams and Ithihasams are our guide to reach the Supreme Goal - The Brahmam, not to show the supremacy of Samskritham...This I am telling you after few disputes only with interest in other person, as a person who follows Sanaathana Sharmama. I hope you understand....

If you are further interested in understanding "what is Karma?" and what is Supreme Bliss, I would suggest you to go thru' a reading of Bhagawath Geetha (in any language you want), and if your interested in knowing what is good amd what is not good to live a good life, Go thru' MahaBharatham. In thamizh, I would suggest, Cho's "MahaBharatham Pesugirathu". In that, Cho has given a wonderful explanation for several complex situations.

[radikal]

Hi Srivatsan, I have read all the books that you refered. The point is even God cannot escape his/her karmic deeds(as clearly mentioned in gita), there might be some apparent temporary reprive in the reactions for ones actions , but it is mostly like getting a lower monthly payment by moving from a 15 year to a 40 year mortgage, you are just spreading out your misery by diluting the intensity, you do it which ever way the karmic account has to balance, one cannot escape from it. If Karmic laws are true it precludes prognosis. You are talking about Gods grace, it is very similar to what our saints said, if they bless you whole heartedly they can transfer some bad karma from you on to themselves the same could be a logically acheived by a deep prayer,even if it is true, this again is possible only by the actions (prayer/devotion) as determined by your free will and hence beyond prognosis.

srivatsan wrote:But what are we doing with this Puraanams and Ithihasams? We are arguing in which language it was written, Which part of the world, it happened, BC or AD, Tamizh or Samskritham....and wasting our time and resources.

whatever it be, you have to give the devil its due, false claims need to be set right. For the ones who look at the crux the other 3 P's of the product is immaterial, but for the most the complete product is needed and so we have these arguments, do not forget that you are an active, partisan participant in that discussion.

[PhillipHer]

do not forget that you are an active, partisan participant in that discussion.

What discussion you are talking about....and to my knowledge, in any discussion in the Hub, I have been as Unbiased as possible....yes, I tell this from my conscience......Pls correct/quote me if I have behaved as a racist, anywhere....

[Big A]

Hi Srivatsan, I have read all the books that you refered. The point is even God cannot escape his/her karmic deeds(as clearly mentioned in gita), there might be some apparent temporary reprive in the reactions for ones actions , but it is mostly like getting a lower monthly payment by moving from a 15 year to a 40 year mortgage, you are just spreading out your misery by diluting the intensity, you do it which ever way the karmic account has to balance, one cannot escape from it. If Karmic laws are true it precludes prognosis. You are talking about Gods grace, it is very similar to what our saints said, if they bless you whole heartedly they can transfer some bad karma from you on to themselves the same could be a logically acheived by a deep prayer,even if it is true, this again is possible only by the actions (prayer/devotion) as determined by your free will and hence beyond prognosis.

srivatsan wrote:But what are we doing with this Puraanams and Ithihasams? We are arguing in which language it was written, Which part of the world, it happened, BC or AD, Tamizh or Samskritham....and wasting our time and resources.

whatever it be, you have to give the devil its due, false claims need to be set right. For the ones who look at the crux the other 3 P's of the product is immaterial, but for the most the complete product is needed and so we have these arguments, do not forget that you are an active, partisan participant in that discussion.

I guess the misunderstanding here is due to the jargon. To explain in detail may take quite a few posts. So in short,
God = Nature
Free will = Natural laws ( you do something, something happens.)
God's grace / Devil's wish = Singularities ( you expect something, something else happens. )
If you study descriptions of any hindu gods, you can find they converge at some point to a natural force.
maaya = vaccuum / nothing
sakthi = energy ( sprang from nothing )
sivam / vinnum = negative / positive forces ( split from energy )
Now, if you study those books again, ignoring any poetic imagination, you can see all these are perfect description of nature.

About rebirth.. Everyone's thought is associated with a specific frequency, unique like our finger prints. This thought wave, since it is not matter, is passed into atmosphere when someone dies. Mostly, this will be zeroed out soon by nature, sometimes, it just is there. This again depends on a lot of factors like the cause of death, for instance. This frequency might match with someone's frequency, and they may start behaving like the dead person or it might be in resonance with someone and cause disaster.

The most important question till date with western science is the relation between wave and matter. But our science has found some important relation between the finger prints which are visible and one's thought frequency. All mantras, chanting, hymns are only to control this frequency. Of course we cant change the frequency, but can cause a minute shift, which has drastic effects. It is the same principle as applying sounds to a horror movie. If you watch a horror movie without the sound, you wont be afraid (sometimes, it could turn into a comedy )

This is becoming too big. so will continue later.