[softy54534]

CONTD:

"naayakan" naayar (plural).
Meaning as above.

Also, the word naagan corrupts to "naayan", which is a different derivation from the above naayan, thus giving the word "naayan" two meanings.

Naayan = padaiththalaivan; this, together with naagan> naayan, became a caste later. We need not go beyond word derivation here.

[LottiFurmann]

Thiru Neduncheziyan,

There is some bug in this thread and some of the things I wrote went missing.

naya + aka(m) + an = naayakan.
naya (verb) > nayaththal = virumbuthal, pinchelluthal.

Look at the phrase: piRanmanai nayaththal.

[TorryJens]

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Àñ½¢¸÷ ¦¾ÖíÌ ÐÙ Á¨Ä¡Çõ
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¸ÁÆì ¸¨Ä¸û º¢Èó¾ ¿¡Î.

[radikal]

//for anyone//
by anyone


Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

remember the time I asked you about the word 'wheel' and its equivalent word in Thamizh where you said 'uruLai' is better to be used for 'wheel'

Then I came across the Thirukkural (athikaaram 94, kural 933)

UruLAiyam oOvAthu kUrin poruLAyam
pOip puramAe padum - Thiruvalluvar

you know what that kural means and the word 'uruLAyam' denotes to 'uruLum karuvi.' Anyway can we use the word 'uruLAyam' for the word 'Wheel?'

What about tyre? How do we call the wheel tyre in Thamizh?

What are the root words for 'kannadam', 'Thelunku' and 'Malayalam?'

did kannadam originated from the same root word as 'karnatakam' meaning ancient land or something? or did it come from the roots 'kannadam' and 'adaiththal?'

What about Thelunku? Did Malayalam come from the fact it became a dialect of the mountain range Thamizh people? Did it come from manipraLavam or something?

nanRi, paNivu Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

[tgs]

CONTD

naayakan - one who is liked; one who is followed; a leader; a general.

naya + an = naayan, (singular). naayar (plural)
meaning as above.

Since naagan also derived to "naayan", the word naayan has two births and two meanings. It eventually evolved into a caste. We need not go beyond derivation of words.

[Paul Bunyan]

Thiru Neduncheziyan.

You did not ask if Kuttuvan became "Kutty" - now a caste title in Kerala!! Some researchers think so.

[Slonopotam845]

I mean, Sanskrit word is original and Tamil word is derived from it as the Sanskrit word is very close to English word...

[MannoFr]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!!

You may use viduvai in inverted commas with vithavai in brackets beside it to make the meaning clear. I shall revert.

[tgs]

CONTD..

A girl of sweet age is usually referred to in MalayaLam as "PeNKidA".

PathinEziletiya peNkidAAvum . pAna pAtiratil muntirich chaaRum - a line from a song by Kavi VayalAr.

Kutti can mean child, e.g. peNkutti pRasavichchu.

[softy54534]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!

man [ Áý ] is the root for both (i) maanthan, manithan and manpathai, mannuyir , mannan on one hand and (ii) maN [ Áñ ] on the other hand.

man [ Áý ] has more than one meaning.

(A) mannuthal [ ÁýÛ¾ø ] - be permanent, be present at all times.

(B) mannuthal [ ÁýÛ¾ø ] - sinthiththal (thinking).

Words referring to humans came from mannuthal, meaning thinking person.

MaN (soil) came from the same word mannuthal in its other meaning of something permaneet.

Indo-European "man" is close to the Tamil words, just as "manushya" (Skrt).

The explanation is that Indo European languages borrowed this word from Tamil at very early stage, whilst in contact with Sumerian civilisation. After all, Tamil is the mother of many world languages.Research has shown Tamil (archaic) was being used in Sumerian area.

[Ifroham4]

//"Kutty"//

Isn't kutty also mean 'peN'(female) in Malayalam? Like eE peN

[9mm_fan]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!!

Vanakkam. The word "thaLapathi" is derived as follows:

The root is thaL, which means that which is at the base and increased in size or in other ways.

thaL > thaaL - foot, feet, base.
"eNkuNaththaan thaaLai vaNangkaath thalai" (kuraL).
"thaaLunda niiraith thaalayaale than tharuthalaal" (Avvai).
thaaL > thaaLam: beats as synchronised by the movement of the feet; now, generally, any beat of drum or as measured by the movement of hands.
thaL > thaLam : base, something like feet, from which all movement takes place. Organisational base.
thaLam + pathi = thaLapathi. (the leader of a base; a base commander.)

pathi-thal: pathinthu iruththal. ( entrenched or well secured in a place. ) (other meanings are not relevant here at this moment).
pathi = a ruler or official or commander, entrenched or well-secured in a place; one who rules the place; a leader.
From the above, "thaLapathi" meaning is clear.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Barathithaasan also used the word "singaLam".

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±í¸û À¨¸Å÷ ±í§¸¡ Á¨Èó¾¡÷
þíÌûÇ ¾Á¢Æ÷¸û ´ýÈ¡¾ø ¸ñ§¼!


I think it was the popular usage at the time to refer to Lanka as singaLath thiivu, singaLam and so on. Also SingaLam was /is a mixed language and had a substantial base of Tamil words and it is admitted by the Sinhalese writers and researchers themselves for example Lionel Sarath. So, the prevailing thought at the time was it was one of the languages of the heritage of the South.. There were also many mixed marriages. Then, the scenario changed..!

The above stanza by Barathithaasan was from memory. I hope no mistakes. I did not check up the other sweet poet Kavimani Thesika Vinaayagam Pillai.

You think there is sufficient evidence to make out a case to say that that was the usage of the time. All these poets are "maRumalarchi kavinyarkaL". and they wanted to go by the popular and simple language that the common man can at once understand without having to look at the dictionary.

À¡Åõ À¡Ã¾¢! «Åý À¡Ê À¡¼ø¸ÙìÌ ¯Ã¢Â Ò¸ú ºüÚ ¦ÁÐÅ¡¸ò¾¡§É «Å¨Éô
§À¡Â¨¼ó¾Ð.

[Ifroham4]

nanRi Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!!

What is an equivalent word for the word 'Luck?' People use 'athistam' but thats either sanskiritized Thamizh word or a sanskirit word.

I once heard from someone that Thamizhars had 16 or more different age sections. For instance in English say you'd have Child age, Teenage then adult etc ( I don't know if there are anything in between those in English). Anyhow, do you know those stages in Thamizh? Would you please list them?

nanRi, vaNnakkam

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Topic started by vinay (@ adsl-67-39-3-180.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) on Wed Oct 22 22:07:56 .


Hey,
I strongly believe that tamil language has its own roots and is independent from any other language in the world. But I now have a doubt. Is the word "kamam" in tamil is derived from Sanskrit or not. Because in sanskrit too we have "kama".

[Drugmachine]

//"eNkuNaththaan thaaLai vaNangkaath thalai" (kuraL).//
The common definition given to this kural, is that right? There are people who say that 30 kurals in Thirukkural were inserted into the Thirukkural at a later time and wasn't in the original Kurals that Thiruvalluvar wrote.

//As between Japanese and Tamil, researches are going on. I shall rever to them in due course and let you know, thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!!//
nanRi

THIRU A P MASILMANI avargaLae!
paNnivu __/__


//The word sengunthan also denotes a position in the military, like the word "lance corporal".//
Does the word 'Sengunthan' have any connection with the Cheran 'Chenkuttuvan?' What does Chenkuttuvan means?

[MannoFr]

contd:

akam + padi + ar = akaththup padinthu iruppavar. Internal (palace) workers or guards.

maRavan = a soldier.

Military workers have evolved into castes in many instances and therefore, these ranks cannot be neatly set against current Western military ranks most of the time.

[radikal]

I thought of writing a detail account of the derivation of the word Naathaswaram, however, I have time only to make a brief submission on it now, Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!!

Naatham comes from the word T: "naa" (tongue), The naatham (pleasant sound - "ps") that was known to Tamils or humans generally and for which they coined a name was the naatham from their own tongues. The ps from instruments came later as they became able to use them. Instrumental ps were an accompaniment to the naatham from "naa".

Once there were instruments and man was able to bring out ps from them, the term naatham also embraced such instrumental ps.

Suram comes from the word "suraththal" - that which issues forth from his tongue or instruments and flows... Sura + am = suram!!

Later suram > Skrt: swaram.

naatham + suram = naathasuram.

Naathasuram is Tamil music and from TN or South India.

[brraverishhh]

//Anyway can we use the word 'uruLAyam' for the word 'Wheel?' //
"uruLaayam" [ ¯ÕÇ¡Âõ ] here means a rotating wheel used in gambling and it appears to be a game like "roulette". The bettor or punter announces a number and if the rotating wheel comes to stop at that number, he wins. A small ball may be dropped to select the number instead of verbally proposing it and if the revolving wheel comes to stop at that number where the ball has sat, he may be the winner. There may be other ways of playing. You have to consult a Chinese gambling expert. They are the real world experts in gambling. In SE Asia some Bangladeshis are good at these games and have found employment (illegal) as assistants of the Chinese operators. Tamils seem to be no good at gambling.

The word "kuuRin" [ ÜÈ¢ý] shows that during the time of Thiruvalluvar, the number used to be selected by word of mouth rather than a small ball as in roulette.

In a game of "tikam-tikam" the wheel is fixed and does not rotate; it has numbers written on it and the punter places his chips on the number he selects. If a rotating arm with a suspended arrow- like point finally rests and points at that number, the punter wins. The stakes will be as pre-agreed between the punter and the operator of the game. Finance usually is managed by a third person and assistant of the operator.

The hands and mind must be fast if you are to be successful. KuRaL No. 325 "kaiyum tharukki" refers to this dexterity.

Looks like Valluvar knew about gaming methods. The component “aayam” in “uruLaayam” by itself means “game” or “gambling”. The underlying etymological meaning refers to the processing that goes on in gambling: selecting numbers, placing of bets, acceptance of bets, beginning of the game and methods of play and assessments at various levels, the display of skill in handling the gaming instruments, the element of chance and its degree, final decision as to “win/lose” and payment. Gambling and the various games are a study by themselves and if you did PhD in other discipline, you may still be nobody in the field of gambling. One can be sold!! There are few books available and not all games may be covered. The Tamil word “aayam” came from “aaithal” and the ancient Tamils must be praised for selecting the root word “aai” ( meaning look very deeply into, research , process something and its intricacies ) to denote gambling. Those ignorant of gaming and its complexities may not understand why and how “aayam” was formed. One person I admired for his knowledge in this area is Justice Choor Singh (retired judge of the Supreme Court of Singapore ) who wrote GAMING IN MALAYA. See if you can get this book if you just want to know how complex things in gambling can be. Thus the word “aayam” is beautifully formulated.

Prostitution, Intoxicating liquor consumption and Gaming are “evils” and they have been juxta-positioned as chapters in KuraL. These evils usually operate in close proximity to one another (in one or adjacent areas ) and hence the choice and placement of chapters in KuRaL is beautiful.

Thank you for bringing up uruLaayam.

As the wheel mentioned in KuRaL refers to the gambling wheel, it is not applicable to a vehicular wheel.

Thus uruLaayam is different from uruLai. NanRi.

[Big A]

//7 ages//

7 stages