[doctorzlo]

I have found out that the name 'peruvankiyam' or something was how 'nAthaswaram' called..let me double check that.

and how do you say 'Apple' in SenThamizh?
What is the pure Thamizh for 'koiyAp pazham?'

[brraverishhh]

//wasn't in the original Kurals that Thiruvalluvar wrote.//

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale! No way to confirm. Even if someone else wrote and inserted it, it must have occurred long before; the word "thaaL" was then already in use.

//connection with the Cheran 'Chenkuttuvan//
No connection with the Cheran. Kuttuvan was from Kuttanaadu. "Kuttuthal" here is said to mean "Ethiriyaik kuttuthal". Kuttuthal: kuttaiyakkuthal (making the other smaller in battle or thalaiyil kuttuthal: knocking with one's knuckles on the head of another

Senguntham: kuntham = stave or stick. Senguntham is a stick which is held upright when marching.
(Senguththaaka pidikkum kOl).

¦ºõ(¨Á) + ÌòÐ + «õ = ¦ºíÌó¾õ ( "ò" ±ýÀÐ "ó" ¬¸ ¦ÁÄ¢ó¾Ð)
nanRi.

[Beerinkol]

your site details tell me

[doctorzlo]

//The name Eezham in Thamizh literature went to Ilangai and then Bharthiyar made it even worse by calling it "Singhalath Theevu."//

Hmm, thiru Neduncheziyan avargale, true. Just for literary discussion: (which I think is no harm). But do you think Barathi can be excused for using the word because at the time, (1) India and Lanka have not become indepedent yet and the British were still ruling; (2) Eezam was then a literary word used in Ilakkiyam and SingaLam was commonly understood; (3) Tamils and Singalese were then living in harmany under British peace; (4) He had no idea that there would be a future problem, After all, he did his best for the Language which became richer. Some of these reasons overlap and are not mutually exclusive.

Can we accomodate him on that ground? Of course no kavingar would refer to Lanka as Singalath Theevu nowadays.

[HedgeYourBets]

Buy tamil books online @

www.udumalai.com

[Fegasderty]

//Barathi said "sundarath thelungu".

You find it interesting?//

I have heard the objection against Bharathi and Bharthithaasan as more patriotic Thamizhar than Bharathiyaar. Although Bharthiyaar worked against gender discriminations, caste discriminations, however his view as a Thamizh pulavar was different than how other Pulavars viewed. Not only that as you are aware of the fact that no Thamizh patriotic pulavar says, "Singhalath Theevukku paalam amaippom" while Thamizhars lives in that Island and lives vastly around 64% of the coast of that Island. The name Eezham in Thamizh literature went to Ilangai and then Bharthiyar made it even worse by calling it "Singhalath Theevu."

There is a reason to believe the influence of 'Thelunku music' during foreigners rule, after 'nayakkar kAlam' may have made him sang "Suntharath Thelunkil pAtisaippom..." etc. Then again he sang the song, "yAmarintha mozhikalil Thamizh mozhi pOl engkum kANOm..." there are belifs that he was a drug 'addict' and so people say that if he was one then no one knows when he sang which one.

If Bharathi said 'Suntharath Thelunku' and his meaning was related to the song Bhaarathithaasan sang, the one you have listed above...
//Àñ¨¼ò ¾Á¢Øõ ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ÁÄ÷ó¾
Àñ½¢¸÷ ¦¾ÖíÌ ÐÙ Á¨Ä¡Çõ
¸ñ¨¼ ¿¢¸÷ ¸ýɼõ ±Ûõ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸û
¸ÁÆì ¸¨Ä¸û º¢Èó¾ ¿¡Î.//
Then thats different.

nanRi, Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae! paNivu.

[TorryJens]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!

I think we have discussed some time back with regard to the derivations of the words, Telugu, Kannadam, Thulu, and MalayaLam. Have you downloaded our discussion< Kindly check.

Anyway,
Malai + aaLam = malayaaLam ( malainaattu mozhi).
Kannadam said to be from Karunadam but disputed by other researchers.
Telugu - several etymologies but researchers rejected one another.
TuLu similarly no concensus.

But you may be interested in knowing one variety of the many etymologies and this variety centred on sweet stuff.

Telugu from thenugu > theen (honey).
Kannadam from kannal, meaning sugarcane (juice).
TuLu from thuLi, i.e., theenthuLi (honey drop).
Thamiz from tami+iz , tami = tani (no equal). iz = inimai.
Malai = malaiththeen (mountain honey). aaLam suffix.

Some are saying how come everything is sweet with these five languages!!

Bharathithaasan says:

pandaith thamizum thamizil malarnththa
pannikar thelungu thuLu malayaaLam,
kandai nikar kannadam enum mozikaL
kamazak kalaikaL siRantha naadu,

Kandai nikar - kaRkaNdai nikarththa (equal to rock sugar). So he believed in this "sweet" etymologies. kandu = kaRkkandu made from sugarcane so kannal > kannadam.

paMMikar telungu - telugu that is equal to a paNN - a musical stanza,

Barathi said "sundarath thelungu".

You find it interesting?

[softy54534]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!

PeN paruvangaL 7:-

pEthai 5 to 7
pethumpai 8 - 11
mankai 12 - 13
madanthai 14 - 19
arivai 20 - 25
therivai 26 - 31
pEriLampeN 32 - 40

You can get a few more by including mUthAtti, kizavi and so on, but I do not think there are any defined ages for them. If amy author gives such a list of more than 7, we shall exchange it for knowledge.

[Drugmachine]

Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!

On Nathaswaram etc., I will get back to you shortly.

[Drugmachine]

There is no cause for concern when the same word or connected word is found in Indo-European. People of IE were in contact with Archaic Tamil in West Asia before IEs dispersed eastwards and westwards.

Take the word vithavai, which we said may be Indo-European in origin.

In Greek, it was in the form "eitheos" and it did not denote a lady who has lost her husband, but a man who had given up ( or postponed) his marriage. Sanskrit borrowed from Greek and used the word to refer to a widow (female). All other IE languages followed Skrt. Latin widuus meant a widow.

The root word for Greek was Tamil vidu = give up (give up or postpone marriage in this instance.). Do you see the connection now?

Hence, in archaic or proto Tamil, there should have been a word viduvai (vidu + vai (suffix) ) , meaning a person who gave up marriage and this must have been borrowed by Greek. We lost the complete word viduvai but we still have the root word : vidu, quite fortunately.

Greek borrowed vidu but had its own suffix (os) added to it. (Compare: Christ > Christos).

LATIN also used its own suffix ( vidu-us) us suffix just like Julius.

But Skrt retained the Tamil suffix vai: Skrt form is "vithava" vai> va.

.Quite clear that we lost the word viduvai but still have the root of all these words shown above.

How fortunate!! We still have the raw material but lost the finished product and have borrowed a replica or:

viduvai (T) corrupted to vithava in Tamil itself i and the original thereafter was lost. Either way it did not make a difference.

[Drugmachine]

Hello Thiru Masilamani,

I think the work Vidhavai (widow in Tamil), is derived from the sankrit work Vidhva as it is very close to the english word Widow. Let me know if I'am right.
Also let me know what is the pure Tamil word for Widow..

Thanks

[PhillipHer]

contd

The word sengunthan also denotes a position in the military, like the word "lance corporal".
Senguntham = a lance or stave, that is carried by the person who marches ahead of his force of men or platoon.

muthal> muthali: one who marches ahead of his force. This word is found in stone inscriptions as "padaimuthali", as per researchers. It shortened to "muthali" . Meaning is clear from the word: it means the first person. (not a general, but a right marker or left marker in marching.)

We are here only concerned with word derivation. We set aside the social aspects etc such as what connotations the word attained as it progressed through time.

[brraverishhh]

CONTD:

As between Japanese and Tamil, researches are going on. I shall rever to them in due course and let you know, thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!!

[MannoFr]

Thiru Chandrashekar,

Vithavai may be Indo-European in origin, and may have been taken from Skrt. Pure Tamil word is "KaimpeN".

Regards.

[Ifroham4]

correction: rever read as refer. Thanks and sorry for errors.

[PhillipHer]

Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

//[Middle English, from Old English mann. See man-1 in Indo-European Roots.] //
www.dictionary.com

That is some information of the root word of the English word 'man' that I found on the website www.dictionary.com

You have told me that Devanayap Pavanar had proved the Thamizh word 'maN' in his etymological works to have come from the Thamizh word 'man'

Although the maN in Thamizh means soil or Land and where as the English word 'man' means human being. Is there a connection? Did it go to English from Thamizh? or was it just a coincident in sound?

nanRi, paNivu __/\__

[Fegasderty]

The Japanese Islands name, 'Izu' and 'kuril Islands' the word 'Izu' and 'kuril' what do they mean in Japanese? Do they have connection with the Thamizh words 'Izhu' and 'kuril?'

[Big A]

nanRi Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

The musical instrument 'nAthasvaram' how is it called in pure Thamizh? Is the word 'vayathu' sanskirit? What about the word 'anjali?'

Thiru Nakeran (nakkEran) from Muzhakkam Thamizh seithth-thAL (from Canada) said vayathu isn't Thamizh and 'akavai' is good Thamizh and that 'aka vaNakkam' is good Thamizh and 'anjali' is sanskirit.

oh and btw those 7 ages for women, they make sense.

Is there a different one for 'aANkaL?' or they are kind of similar?

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Old responses

[Slonopotam845]

Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

nanRi! nanRi! nanRi!!!

It is intersting to know the root of the word Nathasuram which came from Natham + suram as you have said above. To think that Thamizhars have been mostly using the sanskirit form of the Thamizh word Nathasuram is really sad. Anyway does the word Peruvankiyam denotes to Nathasuram?

The facts about the word 'widow' you said is very intersting! I guess that word stand as one of the proof to show that Thamizh is mother of MANY Languages!

Viduvai --> vidu+(us) in Latin and vidu+(os)

I don't know how people forgot the word 'viduvai' and began to use 'vithavai' in Thamizh, could have been the Sanskirit influence. Don't you think using the word 'viduvai' is more appropriate Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae? After all the word is easily understandable 'vidu+vai' for any one.

nanRi, paNivu!