[Peptobismol]

Vanchi,

That quote from JJ is interesting. I'm not quite sure whether Su.Raa's subtle satire in that the tongue-in-cheek 'quotation' from Subadhramma Thangachi is not lost on the reader as it may easily be construed as Su.Raa's own statement.

And about Su.Raa's leg-pulling of authors of historical fiction - IMO, Su.Raa is not referring to Sandilyan. There is only one direct reference to historical fiction in Tamil - 'Sivagami Ammai sabadhaththai mudithu vittarkala?'

The lines quoted in this forum about JJ's coments on historical fiction may be about a handful of Malayalam novelists (of yesteryears) who had to be content with churning out stories based largely on vadakkan kathagal (vaaL, surigai, Aromal and other chegavars, angam vettudhal etc - mostly repetitive) as they had only around 300 years of Malayalam history to fall back upon, unlike ours.

Rgds,
Era.Murugan

[radikal]

Here's an exclusive article by Sundara Ramasamy for the hub!

http://www.forumhub.com/tlit/sura.htm

please post your feedback on the article + further discussion in this thread.

[Paul Bunyan]

Íó¾ÃáÁº¡Á¢ §ºÄò¾¢ø ¬üȢ ¯¨Ã, ´Õ ¿øÄ ±Øò¾¡Çý §¿ÃÊ¡¸ô À¸¢÷óÐ ¦¸¡ûÙõ «ÛÀÅõ
Á¢¸×õ Òòн÷çðΞ¡¸ *Õ츢ÈÐ. §ƒ.§ƒ.¾¡ý Í.á. §Å¡ ±ýÚ ¿¢¨Éò¾¾üÌ Á¡È¡¸, *Å÷ *ùÅÇ× ¿õÀ¢ì¨¸Ô¼ý *ÕôÀÐ Á¸¢ú¨ÂÂǢ츢ÈÐ
«Å÷ À½ò¾¢üÌõ °÷ÍüÈÖìÌõ ¯ûÇ §ÅÚÀ¡ð¨¼ì ÜÚž¢ø ¬ÆÁ¡É §ÅÚ ÀâÁ¡½í¸Ùõ ¦¾ýÀθ¢ýÈÉ.
(§ƒ.§ƒ.¢ø ÅÕõ À¡ÖÅ¢ý ̽¡¾¢ºÂõ: ´Õ °ÕìÌ, «¾ý ¦ÀÂâÖûÇ ¸Å¢òÐÅò¾¢ý ¸¡Ã½Á¡¸ô §À¡Åáõ. '§º¡üÈ¡½¢ì¸Ã¡' ±ýÈ §¸ÃÇòÐì ¸¢Ã¡Áõ ±ýÚ »¡À¸õ)

*ǨÁ측Äò¾¢ø ºÃ¢Â¡É ÀûÇ¢ôÀÊôÒ *øÄ¡¾¡Å÷ ¬Â¢Ûõ ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÀ¢ø н¢óÐ ®ÎÀð¼Å÷ ±ýÀ¨¾¦ÂøÄ¡õ
«È¢Ôõ §À¡Ð ¬îºÃ¢ÂÁ¡¸ *Õ츢ÈÐ. Á¡÷ì ΦÅ¢ý ¿¨¸îͨÅ¡¸ ÀûÇ¢ìÜ¼ì ¸øÅ¢¨Âô ÀüÈ¢ì ÜÈ¢Âо¡ý ¿¢¨É×ìÌ ÅÕ¸¢ÈÐ.

ÀûÇ¢¸Ùõ ¸øæâ¸Ùõ §Å¨ÄìÌò ¾Â¡÷¦ºöÔõ («¾¢Öõ §Á¡ºÁ¡¸) *¼Á¡¸§Å *ÕóÐ ÅÕ¸¢ýÈÉ.
À¡Ã¾¢Â¡÷ ͺ⨾¢ø ¬í¸¢Äì ¸øÅ¢¨Â ´Ð츢ÂÐõ, ¯.§Å.º¡. §À¡ý§È¡÷ ¯Â÷ó¾ ¸øÅ¢¨Âô ¦ÀÈ
¿ÁÐ À¡ÃõÀâ «¨ÁôÒ¸û Ш½ ¿¢ýȨ¾Ôõ §¿¡ìÌí¸¡ø ¿¡õ ¦¾Ç¢Å¡¸§Å 'À¢üº¢ì ܼõ' ±ýÚõ
'¸øÅ¢ì ܼõ' ±ýÚõ *ÃñΠŢ¾Á¡¸ ¬ÃõÀò¾¢§Ä§Â À¢Ã¢òÐì ¦¸¡ûÅÐ ºÃ¢Â¡¸ *Õì̦ÁýÚ §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ.

*ò¨¾¨¸Â¦¾¡Õ ¸ðΨè *¨½Âò¾¢ø ¦ÅǢ즸¡½÷ó¾ ¸¡ïºÉ¡×ìÌ ¿ýÈ¢.
ÅÆì¸õ§À¡ø *ýÚõ §ƒ.§ƒ.¢ĢÕóÐ ´Õ À̾¢:


... (Óø¨Äì¸ø Á¡¾Åý ¿¡Â÷?) «Åâý §Á¨¼ô §ÀîÍò ¾¢Èò¨¾ôÀüȢ Å÷½¨É:

«Åý ºð¨¼¨Â Á¡ðÎÅÐ §À¡ø ¨¸¨Â ¯Â÷ò¾¢ô §ÀÍÅ¡ý.
«ÅÉÐ À¢Ãºí¸ò¾¢ø ¾ÅÈ¡Ð §º¡„Ä¢º ¦ÅûÇõ ÅÃô§À¡Å¨¾ô ÀüȢ Å÷½¨É *ÕìÌõ.
*Ð «ÅÉÐ §Àý Ó측ø À¡¸õ ¾¡ñʾüÌôÀ¢ý *¼õ ¦ÀÚõ.
«Ð ÍÃñ¼ø¸¡Ã÷¸û, ¿¢ÄôÀ¢ÃÒì¸û, ӾġǢòÐÅ Å¡¾¢¸û, (¸õäÉ¢ŠÎ¸ÇøÄ¡¾) ¿õ⾢â¸û *Å÷¸¦ÇøÄ¡¨ÃÔõ «ÊòÐî ¦ºøÖõ. ´Õ ¦Àâ À¢ÃÅ¡¸õ ÅÕŨ¾ ÀüÈ¢ «Åý ¯ÕŸô ÀÎò¾¢ô §ÀÍõ §À¡Ð ±í§¸ «Ð
§ÀîÍ §Á¨¼ì¸Õ§¸ ÅóÐ ¿õ §ÅðÊ Å¢Ç¢õÒ¸¨Ç ¿¨ÉòÐŢ𼧾¡ ±ýÚ §¾¡ýÚõ.
«ù¦ÅûÇõ Åó¾ ÁÚ¿¡û ÝâÂý ±ØóÐ ÅóÐ *¦¾ýÉ ¿¡õ §¿üÚ À¡÷ò¾ ¯Ä¸õ¾¡É¡ ±ýÚ ¬îºÃ¢ÂôÀðÎô À¢ÈÌ Ìà¸Äòмý ¾ý À½ò¨¾ò ¦¾¡¼Õõ

[Ifroham4]

Thanks to Forumhub for bringing out such exclusives. If FH can putup the entire novel (Kanchana, can u do something on this )) JJSK, I will be thrilled!!!!

[softy54534]

The article by Sundara Ramasamy was really thought-provoking and inspiring.
Thank you very much!

[Paul Bunyan]

Venkat: The short stories I could appreciate
and remember now are
"Rathnaabaayin aangilam" and
"pakkaththil vantha appaa"
the second one is such a delightful story froma child's point of view.
The description about the special treatment to a periyappa is great. And the child's view point tells us so much about us adults.

I've that book with me so let me (for once) give a
100% accurate quote. A poetic observation:

... «õÁ¡ ÅóÐ Å¡ºø ¾¢ñ¨½¨Âô À¡÷ì¸ *Õó¾ ƒýÉÄ¢ý À¢ýÉ¡ø ¿¢ýÈÀÊ ¦¾¡ñ¨¼¨Âì ¸¨Éò¾¡û.
«Ð¾¡ý «ÅÙ¨¼Â Š¾¡Éõ. «Åû ÅóÐÅ¢ð¼¡û ±ýÀ¾üÌ «ó¾ì ¸¨ÉôÒ. *É¢§Áø «ôÀ¡ ¦¾Õ¨ÅÔõ ¦ºÊ ¦¸¡Ê¸¨ÇÔõ, ¦¾ý¨É ÁÃí¸¨ÇÔõ À¡÷òÐô ÀÄ §¸ûÅ¢¸¨Çì §¸ð¸, «ôÀ¡Å¢ý À¢ý Áñ¨¼¨Âô À¡÷ò¾ ÀÊ «õÁ¡ À¾¢ø ¦º¡øÅ¡û.


(Incidentally, when I recommennded that short story to people who haven't read anything besides anandha vikatan, they told me they liked it very much.)

[Drugmachine]

Both the interview with Kumudham and the Hub exclusive speech throw very interesting light on su raa the person and his outlook on life and literature. I can personally relate to the way he contrasts himself from JK. I have finished half my life -assuming I will live the other half- without reading or knowing su raa because I did not seek him. I did not have to seek JK. He came to me and became part of my growing up experience.

This is not to diminish su raa's greatness. I am already seeing that in oru puLiyamaraththin ... that I am currently reading( my first su raa). How that junction town unfolds itself reflecting social and economic changes is amazing!

I am unable to participate in the discussions here on JJ etc, not having read any of them.

One place in su raa's interview that appealed to me was his approach to ideologies- He says a writer should not hold on to any firm outlook on life and should instead constantly review and renew it.

With my limited exposure to su raa, a question lingers in my mind:

Why should a writer of this caliber spend his time criticising his literary contemporaries? Was he atleast objective or did he go after personalities? This my genuine question, not a comment.

[TorryJens]

a couple of poems by him:


µ¨×ÞÇÖ Àê´° ×þÆ‘±Å

×þÆ‘±Å Àê´°³ µ¨×ÞÇÖ
µ‘ò ‘°€Ò´ þ°¦¢ —œò엍‘¯¦Ï¹°þº‘³.
'ب ‡ò€î
ƒ¿þº‘³°‘ò …«Ñ¹³—‘¯þ¥ò ‘°Óò Ï€À€Æ'
‡òì °ò ‘ÓÖ Ø๳ —¤þîò.
'œíì Ãò°‘ò µ‘ò ×þÆ‘±Å
ƒ¿þº‘þ°‘ ÀÌ«Å' ‡òì
‡ò€î ƒì´ °àØ™—‘¯¥³
³.

‘íì

‘íì °€×´ °ª¨Å
ê¨Å
°‘Þª¥±Ö€Ò.
ŠÏ™ä´° °Úè³
‚›‘ÌÅ —‘èæÅ
±é ÖÒ³ Ĩ
‡î™ ´³Å.
‡ïñÅ ³– þº‘Ñ´³Å
—µ¨ŽÕÅ ºÌ¿½Å.
‡î³ —ºÆÑ
…™ŽÌ¿ —ºÏ×à±
‡î™ ˜ê¢ —œÖÕÅ.
œÏ …±Ñ™Å
‡ïñÅ °äÑ Š¦™Å.
Ä¥ —óòÀÅ.

‡ïñÅ Ï؍€ã ô°Á¨Å
±Ñö¥Å —‘¯¥³.

--"107 Ø€°è" —°‘¿»ÓϹ³

[Ifroham4]

I do not see much of an intellectual dishonesty in old su.raa and today's. I can only see a constantly evolving person (which is very important to creativity). To change is human, we all continuously modify our opinions on issues as we get more insight into the phenomena. As long as a man tries to be honest changing opinions should not matter. Rather, Changing opinions are manifestions of intellectual honesty. To utter something and later sticking to it (even after realising that is wrong - is bad).
About subjective critiques - yes they are needed as much as the objective variety. Esp. if the critique happens to be a well read and honest. They are much easy to handle for the reader - you know well that he is subjective and you can understand the contradictions easily. I have not read much of his analyses.

kattabommu - who is a real communist anyway? An example would do good to depict what you have against su.raa in your opinion.

[softy54534]

Kanchana,
Yes, you caught it right. There are many occasions Su. Ra has proven our point. Recent interviwe with Sun TV in 'Vanakkam Thamizagam'is another example.
The turn 'The Sivathampi Debate' takes is giving good hopes. During the same period Jeyamohan is not stable in his openions. (You may read his "Naveena thamiz Ilakkiyam.." and his summary for Pe. Karunaakaramurthy). While I was reading Su. Ra's essay on Jeeva for first time I felt cheated-that my mind wanted to know more about Jeeva's personality since I had gathered so much from word of mouth. I was even angry with Su. Ra. When I reread it I lost myself the way he has accounted his first encounter with that giant personality. This is my experience and I do not know su. Ra personally. I too had aversions in the beginning as Kattabommu says.

[Big A]

I have read many of SU.Ra's works. It is a pleasant experience reading his works. But when one tries to associate and contrast his literary works and commentary on political idealogies, one may realize that there is an underlying brhamanical aspirations in SU.Ra's works. Let me clarify my assumption to this forum before I make this comment. I strongly believe that Brhamanical idealogy is a form of primitive Nazism. In my personal opinion, I may be wrong, his literary ideas resemble Hitlerian world of Wagners and Nietzhes. Got it? Although he is apparently critical about Nazism and Brhamanism, I guess SU.RA is intuitively drawn to these ideas. He is somehow attached to these ideas and his litereary works reflect these aspirations. It is my personal opinion, Of course, I am not a psychoanalyst to explore and expose these connections.

[radikal]

I have read many of SU.Ra's works. It is a pleasant experience reading his works. But when one tries to associate and contrast his literary works and commentary on political idealogies, one may realize that there is an underlying brhamanical aspirations in SU.Ra's works. Let me clarify my assumption to this forum before I make this comment. I strongly believe that Brhamanical idealogy is a form of primitive Nazism. In my personal opinion, I may be wrong, his literary ideas resemble Hitlerian world of Wagners and Nietzhes. Got it? Although he is apparently critical about Nazism and Brhamanism, I guess SU.RA is intuitively drawn to these ideas. He is somehow attached to these ideas and his litereary works reflect these aspirations. It is my personal opinion, Of course, I am not a psychoanalyst to explore and expose these connections.

[Lillie_Steins]

Thiru Murugan,

Before I attempt to respond to your query, let me clarify that my criticism is not at the level that one would immeadiately associate the words Nazism and brhamanism. My criticism is based on my understanding and interpretation of su.ra's works. I may be wrong. As I said, I am not a psychoanalyst to explore the motives behind his words.

Nazism and Brhaminism(bramanical HInduism) share several things in common in their origins, philosophical foundations, and the external manifestation of socio-political structure. Nazism is anti-christ though they claimed that Jews destroy their faith. Nazism is anti-socialism though they claimed that they are socialist. Nazism is based on the dogma of racial supremacy.
Let us look at some of the ideas they had adopted to support their socio-political views. MOst of these ideas were lifted from the rantings of German intellectuals like Nietzche, Wagner etc.
1)There is no such thing as morality. Morality is a fake phenomenon. Reliogious Idealogies such as Christianity and political views such as communism are against free-spirit which is considered to be the idiosyncratic asset of Aryan race. The ultimate truth in life is will to power. As a superior individual, you can do whatever you want to exercise your free-spirit. Machiavellianism is justifiable. This idea was extended to National level and Germanic racial domination was viewed as a natural phenomenon. Nietzche's writings also had roots in epicurean pleasure seeking philosophy. To put it short, as a race, they can do whatever they want without worrying about the pains it may cause to others, of course in the name of Aryan virtue, the free-spirit. If you compare these ideas with what India had witnessed after the advent of Brhamanical hinduism in the last 2000 years in the Northern India, and for the last 1000 years in the southern India, Brhaminism had already achieved what HItler could only dream about. Brhaminism used religious tools to achieve this end. Chanakyas' work perfectly reflect these views.

I am not sure, whether NIetzche's works are merely descriptive of the human nature or a prescription for the Germanic race. According to my understanding, SU.RA's character James Joseph(J.J) and his rantings reflect the image of Nietzche and his so called search for truth and perfectionism.

Similarly, I don't know whether his literary works are mere description of human nature or a message supporting Nietzche's ideas.

I don't have the copies of su.ra's works at hand. I could not recollect the passages that resemble Nietzche's writings.

Kattabommu

[tgs]

±ýÉ ¸ð¼¦À¡õÓ, §ƒ.§ƒ. §À¡ýÚ ¯ñ¨Á¨Âò §¾ÎÀÅ÷¸û ¿¡ƒ¢Â즸¡û¨¸Â¢É÷ ±ý¸¢È£÷¸û. «ôÀʦÂýÈ¡ø, Òò¾¨ÃÔõ, ¸¡ó¾¢¨ÂÔõ «¾¢ø §º÷òÐÅ¢¼Ä¡Á¡?

ÀÄÓ¨È Í.á.¨Å Å¢Á÷ºÉõ ¦ºöÔõ ¿£í¸û *á. ÓÕ¸ý §ÅñΧ¸¡û Å¢ÎòÐõ ¾ì¸ ¬¾¡ÃÁ¡É À̾¢¸¨Ç §Áü§¸¡û ¸¡ð¼¡Áø
º¡ìÌ ¦º¡øÅÐ Ó¾¢÷¨Â§Â¡ ¦À¡ÚôÒ½÷¨Å§Â¡ ¸¡ð¼Å¢ø¨Ä.

Í.á. ¿¢¨È ż¦Á¡Æ¢î¦º¡ü¸¨Çô ÀÂýÀÎòÐŨ¾ì Ì¨È ÜÚ¸¢È£÷¸û. *¾üÌ ¯í¸ÙìÌò ¾Á¢ú ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ý Á£ÐûÇ ÀüÚ ¸¡Ã½õ ±ýÚ ¦¸¡ûÇÄ¡Á¡? ¬É¡ø 'â„¢ Á§É¡À¡Åõ' ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¾¡ý ¯í¸ÙìÌ ´Õ ¸Õò¨¾ò ¾¡íÌõ ¦À¡Õò¾Á¡É ¦º¡øÄ¡¸ô Àθ¢ÈÐ.
I would like to know whether he is suffering from "Rishi Manobhavam" or in other words "armchair brhamanical
marxism"
(¯í¸Ù¨¼Â ʺõÀ÷ 10¬õ ¿¡û ÜüÚ).
«î¦º¡øÖìÌ ²üÈ ¬í¸¢Äî ¦º¡ü¸¨Çì ¸ñÎÀ¢ÊìÌõ Ó¨ÉôÒ ²§É¡ ¾Á¢¨Æô ÀüÈ¢ì ÜÚõ §À¡Ð *ø¨Ä.
'¸¼×û' ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÄ¢ý «Õ¨Á¨Âô Ò¸Æ ¿£í¸û ¦¾¡¼í¸¢ÔûÇ *¨Æ¢ø ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ²Ðõ ±Ø¾ Ó¨ÉÂÅ¢ø¨Ä.
¯í¸Ù¨¼Â Áü¦È¡Õ Üü¨È ¿¢¨É×ÀÎò¾ Å¢ÕõÒ¸¢§Èý:
I admire him as a great writer. I have doubts about his intellectual integrity.
(«§¾Å¢¼ò¾¢ø ¿£í¸û Í.á.¨Åô ÀüÈ¢ì ÜÚÅÐ)

¯í¸ÙìÌ ¿£ð§„ ÀüÈ¢ ¿¢¨È ¦¾Ã¢ó¾¢Õ츢ÈÐ. «¨¾ *ó¾¢Â À¢Ã¡Á½¢Âò§¾¡Î ´ôÀ¢ðÎ §¿¡ìÌõ ¯í¸û ¦¸¡û¨¸¨Â Å¢ÇõÀ
*ùÅ¢¨Æ¨Âò ¾ÅÈ¡¸ô ÀÂýÀÎòи¢È£÷¸¦ÇýÚõ, Í.á.¨Å ¬¾¡ÃÁ¢øÄ¡Áø ̨ÈÜÚ¸¢È£÷¸û ±ýÚõ ¯í¸û Á£Ð ¿¡ý ÌüÈï º¡ðθ¢§Èý.

[Lillie_Steins]

Dr. Kattabommu,
Before I went on my Christmas break, I'd only read your initial charge of "lack of intellectual integrity" against Su.Ra. Even though you have not clearly substantiated your claim, I respect it as your individual perception.

Subsequently, Venkat, Murugan, and Vanchinathan have asked for specific passages or sections from Su.Ra.'s works that support your assessment of "Nazi/Brahminical aspirations" behind his literary works. You have come back with the example of JJ and his thoughts, from Su.Ra.'s "JJSK" novel; you've also said you're unsure whether Su.Ra. meant that to be descriptive or prescriptive/normative.

I understand you don't have the novel with you, just like most of us here. Some of us are planning to get that novel's reprint which is available now, and analyze it in this thread like a cyber-book club, as much as our schedules would allow. Why don't you join that discussion too, and contribute with the specifics of your assessment?

It is a worthwhile cause to analyze any important author's works, the underlying philosophies, and their implications. Honest, objective, and differing perspectives are also necessary for any discussion to be fruitful.

As an aside which may or may not belong in this discussion, there is a school of thought which claims that the Nazi intellectuals(!) took Niteche's ideas of The Superman and the will to power, and twisted it to suit their own purposes. My views on existentialism as such are quite unfavorable; I'll refrain from further comments on that subject, since they don't belong here, now.

Hope to see you join our book discussion on JJSK and share more specifics in the near future. Thank you.

Dr. Kanchana Dhamodharan.

* * * * *
On a personal note, my wishes for a Happy Y2K to all the literary enthusiasts here.

[brraverishhh]

Kanchana, Vanchi

I remember reading this long back. If my memory is correct, it was in a seial of literary articles in Kalki by Ki.Rajendran under the pen name Kuttikrishnan - introducing modern literary works in Tamil like Thi.Jaa's Amma VandhAL, Jayakanthan's Samukam enpadhu nAlu pEr and Su.RA's Our PuLiamarathin kAthAi (Interesting to note in retrospective I was introduced to Su.Raa by Kalki).

In the article about PuLia Marathin Kathai, RAjendran quotes Su.Raa as saying "It is not an author's job to prepare pillow cases for acknowledged doctrines" ("›Í™¿ ºª¥ °´³×›æ™´ °Ò‘¬ (°€ÒÆ€«) …€é €°´³¿ þº‘¨×³ €Ò£ïò þ×€Ò ƒÖ€Ò").

How can such a rebel be brahmincal / nazi in his perspective?

[Lt_Apple]

Venkat:

I fully agree with you on your first para. Well said.

RE: critique, as I said earlier, I just raised a question with a view to knowing more abt su raa. Thanks Kattabommu, Kanchana and Venkat for throwing light.

[softy54534]

A recent interview in the nov.1 issue of kumudam:
Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6
For a lower resolution and faster downloading version, use the links below: Page 1Page 2Page 3Page 4Page 5Page 6

[Lillie_Steins]

Closingthe font?

[tgs]

Years ago cre-A came out with a collection of Su.Ra's Short stories [I believe It had about 40 Stories or so] entitled 'sundara ramasamyin siRukathaigaL'. It is out of print too.