[TOD4wDTQ]

I was under the impression that copying and cracking was a Thai speciality and not a fahrang speciality.

What's your opinion?

I believe the notion that everything should be put on internet for free came from west and not Thailand

[buIf6yoW]

Hi Nakreeyan and all,
First of all I may not be influent in English but Thai is my mother language so to clarify what's said in that piecing of writing is not insulting farangs and is not relating to farang brand name products like what you understood. It is a reminder for Thais to embrace the Thai culture as some people are misleading Farang culture.

First of all, Englishh is not my first language and I have a rather basic knowledge of the Thai language.

" Do not imitate Farangs. But if you did and appeared to be fake then it is better to engage to something good in the country (Thailand). There are good people all over the world. Do not get so frighten with Farang culture " This is a quote of one of King Rama IV's sons. This is against those young generations in Thailand who are fanatic and influenced by Farang culture that has now spread through out Thailand. Also those who sing farang music claim that they are fashionable and has misled that those who sing Esaan and Thai classical music are outdated or are cavemen who then become shy and timid and have low self-esteem because they are too scare to sing as they're afraid that they would be called ' Lao ' (Thai Essan). Your translation as a THAI is much nearer to my translation which is used as header of this thread: "Don't imitate fahrangs..."

Nowadays, ' Lao ' also refers to people who eat sticky rice as for their main meals as well as those who speak dialects which is not necessarily from only Esaan. It is very insulting to call a Thai 'Lao' but we worship farangs so you farangs should be proud of yourselves being called 'farangs'. however, once we know your countries then we will call you ...say...kon NZ, kon Australian, kon Ameica, kon Norway, kon Farang-ses (french), kon Sweden etc.... Kon = human, person. It's very insulting to call a Thai "Lao", but did it ever crossed your mind that many foreigners (me) feel insulted when they are called "fahrang"?
Even more when the word "Fahrang" is used in a negative context ("Do not imitate fahrangs").

I wonder how many people would feel insulted if they buy a musical instrument in the USA and find a book where is printed:

“Don’t do like Thai/Issaan do. If you have to fake it, then why don’t you just embrace something good from our own? Don’t always be quick to accept the Thai/Issaan culture. We should cherish and preserve our own music culture, because it’s a part of our history and it's equally as good as any MorLam. Don’t try to follow the current MorLam culture of the Thai/Issaan people with those MorLam music styles, just because you want to be a part of the “IN” crowd, and think that anything hip is supposed to be "MorLam".

(Apologizes to Moxy for using his text.)

I don't want to start a hate thread against the Thai/Issaan people.
There is already more than enough hate going on in Thailand (and the rest of the world).

Can you remember what your wife said exactly?

Peace
~Lime~ Yes, I can remember it.

She compared the original text with the translated text and she said exactly:

"The translation is very close to the original text."

PS.: I feel deeply sorry for your motherland in these dark times and hope that these troubles soon will be forgotten.

[L8fGLM4d]

in these discussions, I always like to recall that a couple of years ago, HM the King of Thailand used the word "farang" to talk about foreigners and that Thailand shouldn't be afraid to learn from them. I cannot imagine HM the King using a word that is derogatory or negative in any way.
my principal, who is very particular about Thai etiquette and manners, also refers to white staff as "farangs".
my intuition is that it is not only the words that count, also how and with what intention you use them. you can get ripped off, looked down on and disrespected even by people who peak to you in very formal and polite English and call you "madam" instead of "hey you".

[BoattyGonm]

Societies change over time, that's life. If it didn't we'd still all be cavemen.

[Quaganoca]

Hi

I have found poeple who find the word farang offensive usually have a chip on their shoulder or low self esteem. and usually in the bar scene.

to me it is just a word used to describe non thai" european or western" features.
as with any word it can become offensive depending how it is used and in what context.
there was a couple of threads on this subject recently.

[77Dinaartickire]

My Nikon Camera, Camera Lens and Lens hood are all stamped "Made in Thailand"-and original.

And among other western companies the Swedish company Electrolux, which owns a range of brand names, has a manufacturing base in Rayong.

David

[repldoinfo]

Hi Nakreeyan and all,


First of all I may not be influent in English but Thai is my mother language so to clarify what's said in that piecing of writing is not insulting farangs and is not relating to farang brand name products like what you understood. It is a reminder for Thais to embrace the Thai culture as some people are misleading Farang culture.

" Do not imitate Farangs. But if you did and appeared to be fake then it is better to engage to something good in the country (Thailand). There are good people all over the world. Do not get so frighten with Farang culture " This is a quote of one of King Rama IV's sons. This is against those young generations in Thailand who are fanatic and influenced by Farang culture that has now spread through out Thailand. Also those who sing farang music claim that they are fashionable and has misled that those who sing Esaan and Thai classical music are outdated or are cavemen who then become shy and timid and have low self-esteem because they are too scare to sing as they're afraid that they would be called ' Lao ' (Thai Essan).

Nowadays, ' Lao ' also refers to people who eat sticky rice as for their main meals as well as those who speak dialects which is not necessarily from only Esaan. It is very insulting to call a Thai 'Lao' but we worship farangs so you farangs should be proud of yourselves being called 'farangs'. however, once we know your countries then we will call you ...say...kon NZ, kon Australian, kon Ameica, kon Norway, kon Farang-ses (french), kon Sweden etc.... Kon = human, person.

Can you remember what your wife said exactly?

Peace
~Lime~

[buIf6yoW]

I baught a few days ago a Thai music instrument and it was delivered with a small book about Taai music instruments.

As I'm not fluent in Thai, I scanned the pages in, ran them trough a OCR program, and let a Thai-English dictionary translate the booklet.

But at the page of "Foreword (translated)" a sentence was translated as "Don't imitate fahrangs and copy this document (translated)"

I showed the page to my wife, and she confirmed that the translation was conveying the meaning pretty well.

I was under the impression that copying and cracking was a Thai speciality and not a fahrang speciality.

I give here the original text for who want to translate it themselves.

What's your opinion?

[buIf6yoW]

how 'farang' style is regarded as modern and stylish nowadays and how people are afraid of being mocked or labelled as 'Lao' if your music is 'Thai style' instead.

Her Royal Highness Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn is an accomplished performer of several Thai classical music instruments. She has become an active leader of the movement to revive interest in the rich cultural value of Thai music among the younger generations, Western Music.
During the last decade of the 20th century, Thailand has witnessed the flourish of Western music as never before, and this development will surely continue well into the 21st century.Western classical music was introduced to Thailand early in the 20th century. Its development was nurtured by Phra Chen Duriyang , a Westerner who came to Thailand and served in the Royal Thai government. He taught many young Thai musicians in subjects like theory, orchestration and applied music and established Thailand's first symphony orchestra. It has been said that Thailand's orchestra under Phra Chen's directorship was among the best in Asia at that time. In 1934, this orchestra was transferred to and became the nucleus of the Fine Arts Department.
By the late 1920s, other small orchestras had been established as part of the branches of the Thai armed services. One of the most distinguished orchestras of this category is the Royal Thai Navy Orchestra, still performing today. Another group of musicians called "Pro Musica" got together to perform and discuss musical matters. They eventually evolved in 1982 as the Bangkok Symphony Orchestra, example, Mr. Piyabhand Sanitwongse and Mr. Kamthom Sanitwongse. Generation after generation, the knowledge is passed on and newer generations of musicians have shown marked improvement in style and technique, knowledge and skill, thus classical music in Thailand improves and keeps moving forward.
Thailand into the 2000's, the National Identity Board Office of the Prime Minister, 2000, page 149-153.

[repldoinfo]

I understand the meaning of the word Fahrang very well.
Maybe that's the reason why I don't like it.

If you want to describe a group of Non-Thai, the English language offers you a myriad of possibilities to do that.

"Foreigner" is a possibility and "alien" is used in most official documents.
Although, "alien" sounds like someone from outher space.

It is my understanding that a fahrang is "long nose", a Westerner.
Asian people are not called a fahrang.
Thus the writer of the article made willingly a distinction between Westerners and Asian people.



Your husband the proof that I'm not alone.


Long time ago, I joined a thread in another forum where somebody had launched a poll to see how many foreigners disliked the word "fahrang".
The result was that most of the participants hated/disliked to hear the word "fahrang".



Thanks for your clarification and taking the time to discuss a thread in a good manner.

Hi,

I think it's now more like personal like and dislike. Please keep in mind that the word ' farang ' is a Thai word not an English word and if you accept that if you are not Thai, not Asian, not Middle East then you are Farang to us (Thais) Similarly, people in the middle east, Phillipine, Lao, Japan etc.. might call you something else in their languages.

Goshh...no! you are not alone!! I think there are hundreds of thousands of Farangs who don't want to be called 'farangs' which is up to them because it is not going to change how we call westerners and Europeans. I CAN ANSURE YOU THAT CALLING A FARANG, FARANG IS NOT AN INSULT. My husband never said that he didn't like being called farang but he didn't understand what it meant. He was fine after I explained to him.

If a Thai person asks me if my husband is Thai? I will say to that person that no he is not Thai; he is a Farang. Also, it's okay to get nervous and anxious about what you don't know but if you know exactly what it is and still get angry and are not happy about it then you need to consider yourself.

Wonder what you call asians in your country? - remember, some don't like being called Asian.

Thanks for you compliment.
Peace
~Lime~

[repldoinfo]

First of all, Englishh is not my first language and I have a rather basic knowledge of the Thai language.



Your translation as a THAI is much nearer to my translation which is used as header of this thread: "Don't imitate fahrangs..."



It's very insulting to call a Thai "Lao", but did it ever crossed your mind that many foreigners (me) feel insulted when they are called "fahrang"?
Even more when the word "Fahrang" is used in a negative context ("Do not imitate fahrangs").

I wonder how many people would feel insulted if they buy a musical instrument in the USA and find a book where is printed:

“Don’t do like Thai/Issaan do. If you have to fake it, then why don’t you just embrace something good from our own? Don’t always be quick to accept the Thai/Issaan culture. We should cherish and preserve our own music culture, because it’s a part of our history and it's equally as good as any MorLam. Don’t try to follow the current MorLam culture of the Thai/Issaan people with those MorLam music styles, just because you want to be a part of the “IN” crowd, and think that anything hip is supposed to be "MorLam".

(Apologizes to Moxy for using his text.)

I don't want to start a hate thread against the Thai/Issaan people.
There is already more than enough hate going on in Thailand (and the rest of the world).



Yes, I can remember it.

She compared the original text with the translated text and she said exactly:

"The translation is very close to the original text."

PS.: I feel deeply sorry for your motherland in these dark times and hope that these troubles soon will be forgotten.

You still don't understand the word ' Farang ' and obviously you are not trying to understand it. It is exactly the same as when farangs call an Asian, Asian which I don't think it is racism. Similarly, when you talk about flowers you would call rose, daisy, sunflower, etc...so you know exactly what you are referring to. Which is the same when you talk about people; we just need to know their character you can't just say 'do not do what non-thais do' as it is to broad.


You may need to be a bit more positive and try to understand the word ' farang ' more perhaps talk to someone in your race and ask how they feel being called farang. Or even get your wife to explain it to you. If you hate being called farang, think about those who don't like being called ' Asian ' or ' Esasn/Thai Essan ' My husband was once very nervous and anxious when he heard the word ' farang ' when we passed a group of people but he is fine now. So, a clear explanation is a must in your case

There is no need to start a hate thread against Thai/Esaan upon your misunderstanding.

Thanks,
~Lime~

[dodsCooggipsehome]

Its actually saying .."dont copy farang's culture..be proud of your own culture..be proud of your music"...thats what the whole paragraph is trying to say

[77Dinaartickire]

So, copying a page or a booklet, is "a fahrang culture" and is ashaming.

Isn't it actually talking about the music you play on the instrument and not about copying a page from a booklet?

David

[L8fGLM4d]

if you cannot distinguish between racism and preserving cultural heritage, well, not much can be done....

[CtEkM8Vq]

Have you turned on a television recently? I see that you are upset about this word Farang and whether or not Thais copy Farang culture (I can't even follow your argument, actually). However, I think most of us would say that we're pretty busy today... staying up into the wee hours desperate for news of Thailand and your little game is not only a waste of time, but a collosal insult to people who love Thailand.

[buIf6yoW]

You still don't understand the word ' Farang ' and obviously you are not trying to understand it. It is exactly the same as when farangs call an Asian, Asian which I don't think it is racism. Similarly, when you talk about flowers you would call rose, daisy, sunflower, etc...so you know exactly what you are referring to. Which is the same when you talk about people; we just need to know their character you can't just say 'do not do what non-thais do' as it is to broad.

I understand the meaning of the word Fahrang very well.
Maybe that's the reason why I don't like it.

If you want to describe a group of Non-Thai, the English language offers you a myriad of possibilities to do that.

"Foreigner" is a possibility and "alien" is used in most official documents.
Although, "alien" sounds like someone from outher space.

It is my understanding that a fahrang is "long nose", a Westerner.
Asian people are not called a fahrang.
Thus the writer of the article made willingly a distinction between Westerners and Asian people.

You may need to be a bit more positive and try to understand the word ' farang ' more perhaps talk to someone in your race and ask how they feel being called farang. Or even get your wife to explain it to you. If you hate being called farang, think about those who don't like being called ' Asian ' or ' Esasn/Thai Essan ' My husband was once very nervous and anxious when he heard the word ' farang ' when we passed a group of people but he is fine now. So, a clear explanation is a must in your case Your husband the proof that I'm not alone.


Long time ago, I joined a thread in another forum where somebody had launched a poll to see how many foreigners disliked the word "fahrang".
The result was that most of the participants hated/disliked to hear the word "fahrang".

There is no need to start a hate thread against Thai/Esaan upon your misunderstanding.

Thanks,
~Lime~ Thanks for your clarification and taking the time to discuss a thread in a good manner.

[buIf6yoW]

Hi,
I think it's now more like personal like and dislike. Please keep in mind that the word ' farang ' is a Thai word not an English word and if you accept that if you are not Thai, not Asian, not Middle East then you are Farang to us (Thais) Similarly, people in the middle east, Phillipine, Lao, Japan etc.. might call you something else in their languages.

It is indeed a personal thing as I said a few times in this thread.

I come from a highly tourist country and we have developped a language to describe the tourists, our daily goods, etc.

This language is a part of the official language in my country and is in no means insulting like the word "nigger" to describe an African.

As soon as an airplane touched the ground, we knew which "fahrangs" were gullible, and the news was spread before they even past Immigration.

Is it a good thing to keep using that language which is part of my motherlanguage?

I doubt it.

Goshh...no! you are not alone!! I think there are hundreds of thousands of Farangs who don't want to be called 'farangs' which is up to them because it is not going to change how we call westerners and Europeans. I CAN ANSURE YOU THAT CALLING A FARANG, FARANG IS NOT AN INSULT. My husband never said that he didn't like being called farang but he didn't understand what it meant. He was fine after I explained to him. I don't meet many people who call me a fahrang.
Thais or whatever.
But used in the context of this book, it was not right.
There fore, I asked what everybodies opinion was on this.

If a Thai person asks me if my husband is Thai? I will say to that person that no he is not Thai; he is a Farang. Also, it's okay to get nervous and anxious about what you don't know but if you know exactly what it is and still get angry and are not happy about it then you need to consider yourself. Or consider the written text in the right context?

Wonder what you call asians in your country? - remember, some don't like being called Asian. Speaking in a semi-insulting way, "Yellow" (not the shirts).

In a insulting way (as callling an African a "nigger"), "splitted eyes" (describing the eyes of an Asian).

In my mothertongue calling a Chinese a China-men can be real insulting depending on the tone and the context in which it is used.
It is also used many times to call a person from whatever country lazy, good for nothing, scum, etc.

Thanks for you compliment.
Peace
~Lime~ It is a honnor for me to have a discussion with an educated person who don't start throwing **** or calling names like "coming from the barscene", "insulting the Thais", etc.

Peace

Nakreeyang

[TOD4wDTQ]

Isn't actually talking about the music you play on the instrument and not about copying a page from a booklet?

David

Yes you are correct;

In fact copying a page or a booklet is not mentioned at all......

[RBJamez]

nakreeyang

Geesus,…..You don’t know how to read Thai, and seems your wife also has comprehension problem with her own language as well….LOL

Keep arguing something you know nothing about, but think you can assume what it meant, because of your Thai wife's confirmation. Geezz I wonder what else did you ask her to translate for you…..hmm

Anyway...those texts are not about copying a fake product… like dvd, cd, !!!
Actually it’s about using the word “fake” in a different context all together,...like in the perceived value.

To sum it all up, basically it says….
“Don’t do like farangs do. If you have to fake it, then why don’t you just embrace something good from our own? Don’t always be quick to accept the foreign culture. We should cherish and preserve our own music culture, because it’s a part of our history and it's equally as good as any modern music from the west. Don’t try to follow the current pop-culture of the city’s people with those modern music styles, just because you want to be a part of the “IN” crowd, and think that anything hip is supposed to be "modern".
The problem mostly stemmed from… there is a misunderstanding about the fans of morlum’s music, that they are following an outdated, old, thing of the past …..not to mention, in addition to, not wanting people to think that you’re a lao (or isaan).
Something like that…

Go and learn some Thai if you have some free time, don’t argue over something you have no full knowledge of.
You’re not only wasting people times, but irritating them with your babbling arguments as well.

[TerriLS]

I understand the meaning of the word Fahrang very well............
It is my understanding that a fahrang is "long nose", a Westerner.
Asian people are not called a fahrang.

As far as I know "farang" comes from a word for French or France fà-ràng-sàyt ½ÃÑè§àÈÊ . I can't remember the history behind it but it certainly doesn't sound like an insult.

PS just looked it up on Wikipedia. It's a popular theory and other possibilities are mentioned at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang#..._related_words