[aspinswramymn]

I couldn't agree with you more. We need more stories like this one in the newspaper and also the recent tv programme Big Trouble in Thailand in order to hammer this message home. It doesn't matter if you don't see yourself as a trafficker or dealer. People with only enough drugs for their own personal use can also be arrested and charged with dealing. This is because the government have lowered the number of drugs you need to be found with in order to charge you with trafficking.

A defence of "It wasn't my drugs", "I was only holding for someone else and didn't have any" or even "But in my home country they usually let you off with a warning on your first offence" won't stand up in court in Thailand. There is zero tolerance in Thailand when it comes to drugs. It doesn't matter if in your home country you would have been let off with a warning or a short sentence. People in Thailand are often sentenced to long prison terms for drug offences. The death penalty is also common if you don't plead guilty. Just a short time ago two drug dealers were executed.

DON'T LET THE NEXT EXECUTION IN THAILAND BE YOURS.

IT IS NOT COOL TO TAKE RECREATIONAL DRUGS IN THAILAND.

[aspinswramymn]

I visited Steve a couple of times at Bang Kwang. At that time, he had just been granted a transfer back to the UK. However, his Thai wife was refused a visa even though she was the mother of a British citizen and Steve's parents were sponsoring her stay and finding her a job. It took a lot of appealing before she was finally allowed to go to the UK. In the meantime, Steve's father died of cancer. Oak is doing well in an English school and is apparently fluent in English now. Probably a lot more so than his mother. Steve says he loves Thailand and would hope one day be able to retire there.

-----------------------------
www.thaiprisonlife.com

[ZIZITOPER]

Steve says he loves Thailand and would hope one day be able to retire there.

This brings me to a question : I thought that for some kinds of visa, the requirement is NOT to have a criminal record.

--> e.g. non-immigrant O visa (= retirement visa ?)
1.3 Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicant’s nationality or residence.
source : http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493

and even for marrying in thailand - a copy of criminal record history would be requiered ?

So he wouldn't be able to return to Thailand again if this was enforced, or do I understand this wrong ?

In my country there was the case of someone convicted, he was implicated in a case of beating someone to death (some bouncer turf war), though he himself wasn't present at the beating : phoned/tipped others. He had to spent jail time, and after his sentence in Belgium, he couldn't enter Thailand anymore.

[DoctoNilsonDen]

There is some justification for Steven Willcox challenging his sentence. Depending on the country, people of other nationalities shipped home from a Thai prison are often released by their own prison authorities after a year or two-sometimes it can be months. I have read this is often the case in the USA.
The UK is almost alone on insisting repatriated prisoners serve the sentence they were given by the Thai courts in full.

[chuecaloversvvp]

which reminds me, what has happened to the British girl who was repatriated from Laos? has the baby been born yet? will she have to serve a life sentence?

[Kemapreedasse]

Clear message in Thailand, DONT DO DRUGS..........

Yeah the message is very clear. I'm very anti-drug but sometimes the law can just go too far. You are taking away a person's life for making a poor choice for themselves. I've met with people that have hit rock bottom with drugs and figured a way out on their own to reclaim their lives and become quite successful. They are the best advocates for not using drugs. Put them in jail for a couple months maybe and at least give them a chance to see the light. When you take away 6 years of someone's life that's just way too much.

It's a strong message in one sense but it's quite the dichotomy when you know who the drug dealers are and don't prosecute them because of corruption.

[ZIZITOPER]

No, it isn't.

David

I'm still a bit puzzled. I just heard about it recently, and because I never heard of that before, I checked at the website of the Thai consulate in Antwerp, and they really stipulated a clause that you need a "bewijs van goed gedrag en zeden", which is something of a "clearance re criminal record" - I'm not sure what the exact right wording is in English, and small words can make big differences. But whatever the interpretation, it sounds odd that this would be needed - and I had never heard of this anyway.
So I thought it might be some kind of very recent rule, which on top of it may not be really enforced, or the interpretation might just be that they want the paper, to weed out the serious criminals (which might make sense : it wouldn't be about the marriage, but about letting them in Thailand)
But the website of the Thai embassy in London doesn't require British nationals do give any criminal record or clearance or whatever.

Maybe the Belgians have a really really bad name ?

Bit strange

----------------- just found the equivalent (or closest possible equivalent) in English (UK English) :
police clearance - “Subject Access Report”.

[Misebeita]

Clear message in Thailand, DONT DO DRUGS..........

[freddyujnf]

I believe it depends on the actual agreement between Thailand and the repatriating country.

Previously Swedes who were transferred back home still had to serve the sentence they were given in Thailand in full, but this was changed a few years ago where Sweden now have the right to change the sentence to Swedish standards.

Are you sure about that? I always thought the repatriating country is free to do as it pleases. One of the considerations though is that Thailand will not be happy if somebody is sentenced to 30 years and after say 4 years Thai jail and 1 year UK jail he is released. That might mean it will be more difficult for the next repatriation.

[TOD4wDTQ]

Are you sure about that? I always thought the repatriating country is free to do as it pleases. One of the considerations though is that Thailand will not be happy if somebody is sentenced to 30 years and after say 4 years Thai jail and 1 year UK jail he is released. That might mean it will be more difficult for the next repatriation.

In the Swedish case I am sure as its not retroactive, meaning we have several well published case of people being repatriated here earlier and now having to serve their 30 years while people being repatriated nowadays under the same circumstances will (and have been) released as they have already served the sentence according to Swedish legislation.

Ex post facto law is illegal in Sweden

[aspinswramymn]

Leicester dad tells of battle to cut Thai drugs sentence
Sep 20 2009 by Ben Goldby, Sunday Mercury

A DAD jailed for 33 years for drug possession in Thailand has spoken from his prison cell about his “living hell” behind bars.

Steven Willcox, 45, revealed his heartbreak at never seeing his six year-old son, Oak, as a free man and of his hopes for a landmark legal ruling to reduce his harsh sentence.

The businessman, from Blaby, Leicestershire, was caged in a grimy Thai jail in 2003 after being caught with a small amount of ecstasy, amphetamines and cannabis while working on the island of Koh Samui.

“The police were given my name by an acquaintance in Bangkok. They raided my house and found drugs that were for my personal use,” he said during an interview at Rye Hill prison, Warwickshire.

“I was thrown into a remand prison where I slept in a room with more than 60 other inmates on a hard stone floor. We were shoulder to shoulder; there wasn’t room to move. The guards gave batons to some of the other prisoners to carry out beatings and keep order.

“For the first eight months I was kept in heavy iron shackles and was terrified of getting sick, because in those conditions, if you get ill you will die.

“The complete isolation of the place was impossible to deal with. My lawyer barely spoke any English and when it came to court I had to plead guilty to distribution charges, which under Thai law I was guilty of.

‘‘They gave me a life sentence, even though they knew I wasn’t a drug dealer.”

Steven returned to Rye Hill in 2007 under a treaty which allows British prisoners to be repatriated after serving four years in Thailand.

But he will not be considered for release until 2020, even though he would have received just 12 months for similar drugs offences in Britain.

His appeal under the Human Rights Act was turned down by the High Court last month but his Thai wife, Lek, and mother Valerie have vowed to continue to petition the British Government.

“When I was in the remand prison I was visited by my wife every week. Even when she was eight months pregnant she would travel the length of the country from Koh Samui to Bangkok to see me,” he said.

“Though it was the only thing I had to look forward to each week, I was constantly worried about her. She was exhausted and eventually I had to stop her from coming because I feared it would damage her health.

“The feeling of powerlessness was overwhelming. There were times when I felt I was going insane.

“I found out about my son’s birth through an ambassadorial worker who came to visit me.

“He just started talking about my son as if I already knew, but I had no idea. It was a very strange way to find out that your child had been born.

“The first time I ever saw Oak, I was on a prison transport bus to the courthouse for a pretrial hearing. I looked out of the window and saw my wife cradling him in her arms.

‘‘It was an incredibly emotional experience, I can barely even talk about it now.

‘‘Being separated from them, and not watching my boy grow up is the hardest thing.”

Carla Riozzi, a lawyer for Leicester-based Moss Solicitors, says the Midlander’s legal team are preparing to take his case to the House of Lords and even the European courts if necessary.

“I want people to look at my case and make their minds up for themselves,” said Steven.

“After two years back in the UK and four years in jail over there my hope is starting to fade, but I’m trying desperately to keep it alive.

“I don’t deny that I was taking drugs, I had become addicted to amphetamines at a very stressful time in my life.

“But I never sold drugs and I was absolutely not involved in any sort of distribution.

“I just want the punishment to fit the crime.”

[aspinswramymn]

There was a story in the UK papers a couple of weeks ago:

A woman jailed in Laos for smuggling drugs who returned Britain to serve her sentence has given birth, it was revealed today. She briefly left London's Holloway Prison to give birth to a baby girl in hospital several weeks ago, a spokeswoman for legal charity Reprieve said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0S7RyTkTR

[TOD4wDTQ]

There is some justification for Steven Willcox challenging his sentence. Depending on the country, people of other nationalities shipped home from a Thai prison are often released by their own prison authorities after a year or two-sometimes it can be months. I have read this is often the case in the USA.
The UK is almost alone on insisting repatriated prisoners serve the sentence they were given by the Thai courts in full.

I believe it depends on the actual agreement between Thailand and the repatriating country.

Previously Swedes who were transferred back home still had to serve the sentence they were given in Thailand in full, but this was changed a few years ago where Sweden now have the right to change the sentence to Swedish standards.

[DoctoNilsonDen]

She got pregnant in prison to avoid a death sentence that she was in virtually no danger of receiving-the papers-"Daily Mail" included -"forgot" to mention this.

[freddyujnf]

Thanks for that.

I agree with Richard on this, they were sentenced to a certain period in the country where they committed the crime, if they are repatriated, they would IMO still have to serve that amount of time.

I hope for his sake he gets a royal pardon.

[OGOGOogoloshennya]

and even for marrying in thailand - a copy of criminal record history would be requiered ?

No, it isn't.

David

[aspinswramymn]

It was in the agreement with the UK. However, in the US they often release them within one year. There is one famous case of a drug runner being released on his return to the US only to be re-arrested there a year later for drug offences. Personally, I think the sentence should be the same as for Thai people in Thailand as that was where the crime was committed. It is not really fair on them if foreigners can get off free after only serving a fraction of their sentence. What kind of message does that send to foreign drug traffickers passing through Thailand? I know this case is different as there was only enough drugs for personal use. But, the law is the law. His only hope should be a pardon from the King which is what we are presently helping him to achieve by chasing up the officials involved. I think it has been in the queue for consideration for about three years now.