[tevyrefficy]

Thats what I also call RACIST,,but you remember when I first came here and said all Thai drive like fools,,and VC45 accused me of being RACIST..now everybody is a racist to him...

[celddiskend]

Jimmy - I think some of your problems arise from not understanding Thai culture.
This is not a criticism of you personally. (I am no expert, I hasten to add !)
May I suggest a small, very readable book that I think could help:
"Cultureshock Thailand" by Robert and Nanthapa Cooper, published (in UK) by Kuperard -I think -I have a very old copy, but have seen it on the shelves at "Waterstones" and "Ottakers" bookshops in the UK recently. You may also be able to find it at "Suriwong" or "DK" bookshops in Thailand. It is mainly aimed at businessmen posted to Bangkok from the west, but there is a lot for everyone else trying to understand Thai ways. I do not say this book will solve all your problems, but it does give a lot of insight.

[tevyrefficy]

all Asians think the same way,,I have had Chinese G/F. in China,,G/F in Viet Nam, Lao, Thailand and they all stay out of the sun as much as possible because darker skin means lower class like field workers or laborers that have to work out in the sun.. So from this post, it seems your G/F must be from a well to do family or she is just putting on the Dog..
But from your post about the new year expenses I would say that the family is not well to do or their daughter was never taught manners or respect.

[RotsLoado]

If a foreigner is in thailand, and is of any race or creed and behaves him or herself and respects Thai traditions and the way of life, and respects others' personal beliefs then they will be very well respected and well treated. If you act like an Asshole and treat people in an arrogant manner, then these Thai people you are reacting with will come to the conclusion that you are an Asshole and will treat you like Farang dirt. I have lived in Thailand for some years on and off and have not experienced any racism from the locals towards me at all. A lot of back packers in Thailand are mainly hippy types with low hygine and little money. The locals see these people from the way they look and behave and don't think highly of them and treat them as such. Mainly they ignore them. There are a lot of Expats and their family members who go to Thailand to work and I have to admit that many of them are quite snobbish and think they are so superior to the locals, well that isn't so cool either, cause this makes them appear intolerant. That is all I have to say on the subject cause that's all there is. You reap what you sew.

[pMJWFoAWD]

Technically Vision is correct, he too has had some graduate study in sociology and everyone is a rascist to a degree. Fight it as we may, we can not fully and rightfully ever claim not to be. The same way I can never claim that I have never felt the emotions of hate, anger or depression. To be a rascist is just part of being human. As described in the posts above though there are varying degrees of the term. Just as with everything else there are different extremes that we display it or more drastic actions to not show it. That as he mentioned is usually the way to identify who is more rascist. Too the thought on who picks up on the rascism indentifying who is hyper-sensitive to it.

All these points were touched on my first year of study and never recycled or discussed in more depth until my 3rd year. Some rascism is expressed just internally by feeling uncomfortable a bit and other forms are as extreme as the toilet comment above. How we handle it though is usually how the rest of society labels us as rascists. Most of society is in the norm of keeping feelings as feelings and not expressing with signs or water fountain/ toilet rules.

Khun Don excellent reply! I am sure that bit of history was appreciated by all newcomers and maybe even some regulars. Great job explaining some of the reasoning behind the emotion.

Really though most disturbing of all is the fact that a new member would come into our "house" with disrespectful comments on parts of everyday life in many areas of Thailand, and try to to stir up things with a question of whether Thai people are rascist. Some woud call it rascist to say that so-and-so's girlfriend has no self-respect because they have no indoor plumbing, they sleep on the floor calling it dirty, and saying that the neighbors coming over on the new boyfriends arrival is their way of begging for a few shots of whiskey. All because the boyfriend is more accustomed to the city life in Bangkok? Then to top it all off saying that you feel they are out to cheat you and that you do not trust them?!! I think your best bet (if learning about the culture is not something you can do) is to head over to California and find yoursef an aspiring actress to date. You are obviously off to about the worst start one could imagine if you have already lost trust, so it is probably best to cut your losses early in the game and find something more suited to your taste and lifestyle prefrences? Before anyone questions why I say this, perhaps you would better understand if you were to read the other post.

[lopaayd]

I would say it is definately a clash of cultures about different looks being attractive, it interesting how often farang comes up as being racist as well, i know it isnt at all but i think it is going to be an issue with white people for quite a long time who do not understand it meaning anything other than white person. maybe it is to do with our cultures being very much against views labeling races with slang in a relaxed manor...

[voodoosdv]

Visionchaser is perfectly correct, it's the human condition and will never be eradicated as long as there is always someone else who is different.

"Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself"

[ViaplyVuple]

Perhaps Precept 4 is more relevant in Thailand:

I undertake the precept to refrain from false and harmful speech.

[pataagusata]

I remember this kind of subject from quite a long time ago.

Unlike where i come from, you seldom meet 'straight in your face confrontationists.

How Jimmy is perceiving Thais is quite common amongst newbies to Thailand. For sure, if some of the local people back home in Farangland said some of the things that 'Thais often say especially about ones skin-colour' it would be deemed very negative.

But here, the Thais like to have a fun and a joke and not at all as serious as the newbie to Thailand may think. Look at slap-stick comedy in Thailand, Thais just love having a good laugh about stereotypes: we have the dark-skinned Isarn maid with her dark-complexion and bad accented Thai, completely over the top ladyboys falling over chairs, loud-mouthed 'Somtum' vendors and even usually respected folks such as Policeman/Policewoman, HI-SO women and politicias are the brunt of a decent laugh.

One of my fave programs is called 'Sapha Joke' a general laugh performed by puupets about well-known Thai politicians etc...

The Thais have a different mentality in this regard as found in the west. It's just for fun and there is nothing vicious in it. Go to see any slap-stick comedy show in Thailand and us foreigners get a fair-share of stick too!

In my opinion "No, Thais aren't really that racist".

Let me give you an example - now, i have been to Laos quite a few times. Folks from that country are also the brunt of many Thai jokes but when i have said to my friends "I'm going to Laos next week" theyve replied "I'd like to go too, my friend said Luang Prabang is a beautiful place" etc.... I have told a couple of friends in Suphan that i may go to Cambodia in April. Same again.

Thais have a dig and a bit of a laugh but it is nothing like some of the discrimination that plaques western countries.

I watched a movie on VCD last week called 'Yam Yasothon' a very popular comedy last year about two girls and two guys from Yasothon province in the north-east. This movie has every stereotype of north-eastern people imaginable but the leading actors and actresses are all from that part of Thailand too!! To them they see it as 'all a bit of fun'. In fact i remember reading a Farang writer cursing the movie as 'quite obviously racist'. But again, he was only comparing this to what would and is acceptable in the west.

[tevyrefficy]

In my opinion "No, Thais aren't really that racist".

Thanks again Steve,,you also speak for me..

[duawLauff]

I don't think everyone is racist by default. Everyone has discriminative thoughts, but being racist is much more than that.

Steve, I too think that many Farang think too much into what they see on the surface, simply because they don't really know much beyond that. I too have seen that city folks like to make fun of upcountry folks, especially when being part of a big group, but once it comes down to one-on-one talk with a close friend, they are just curious about what life is like on that side.

Of course there are bigots who have an inherent dislike towards the group, but it's a minority, I think.

[pMJWFoAWD]

Jimmy, sincerely I am sorry. If you understand forums (not a condescending tone) you would be aware of the so called 'trolls' that register, make a post or two to cause problems and flaming wars, and disappear just to watch the other get banned for their statements. It brought a smile to my face to see that you did actually return here. You are a step ahead of what many assumed you were probably.

No I do not live in Thailand.

I do totally understand the dog barking that made me laugh because I went through the same thing exactly. In the states we put down animals like that. If we don't the animal control center will dispose of the problem if the owner is willing to or not. That was funny. As far as the last two or three sentences, you were correct in assuming you read into it wrong. There is absolutely nothing rascist meant by the actions or statements when they are pointing out that you are farang, though in the Western societies we tend to consider that very ummm.... moronic(?), to be stating the ever so obvious.

But your original question was answered nicely about the Burmese by Khun Don, that should sum up the majority of the actual rascism (by the common use of the term) that you thought you had seen, yes it is real. But no it is not a major issue as the Burmese have the same hostilities or feelings of emnity lying deep with family roots.

[celddiskend]

"When i told her brother i was in Burma for a short trip he only had bad words to say about them too, something about ancient history."

You bet it was something to do with ancient history ! The Burmese have been the "traditional enemy" for hundreds of years and many wars have been fought between the Thailand and Burma.
A couple of "highlights":
In 1763, Burma invaded Chiang Mai and marched all of its inhabitants off to Mandalay as slaves, leaving a ghost town.
In 1767 Burma completely demolished Ayuthaya, marching off all its inhabitants to slavery, setting fire to anything that would burn and completely smashing everything else that would not, thus wiping out most of Thailand's culture.
Burma/Myanmar is still not trusted by Thailand today, there are sometimes problems at mutual borders with Myanmar's soldiers crossing into Thailand to pursue ethnic minorities at war with the military dictatorship. Also there are a lot of illegal workers and beggars from Myanmar in Thailand who are seen as a threat by the populace.

[Gorlummm]

Hi everybody, i am new here.

I been in Thailand since may last year and like it very much. I like Thai people too.

Last night i was watching a Tv drama on channel 3 i think it wsa and all my girlfriend was saying was how ugly the girl with the black skin was. I tryed to tell her that she was pretty but my girlfriend explained that every Thai girl with black skin was UGLY.
I heard my girlfriend say so many times when she sees a white skin Chinese looking girl on the TV "She is very beautiful".

The way my girlfriend speaks sometimes makes me think that Thai people are racist! When i went to her house in Khon Ken i got into a conversation with her brother and i remember him telling me how bad poeple in the south of Thailand are. He also said that all the Muslims in the south of Thailand should go to live in Malaysia as they all cause trouble.

When i told her brother i was in Burma for a short trip he only had bad words to say about them too, something about ancient history.

Is it only me? Do you think the Thais are racist?

I hate to think too what the Thais say about me the white-man behind my back. Do they think i am just as bad as the Muslim man or Burman.

Do Thais have anything good to say about a person who DOESNT look like a Chinese and have milk color skin?

[JacomoR]

All people are racist, not just Thais. A basic psychological phenomenon is in-group/out-group mentality. Different physical characteristics make it easy to categorize people as belonging to an out-group. People are instinctively suspicious of out-group members. ...they all stay out of the sun as much as possible because darker skin means lower class like field workers or laborers that have to work out in the sun... This preference is culturally derived, but is not all that different than someone in the West wanting a manicure, a tan, nice clothes, and an expensive car to give the impression of being well-to-do. I think the most racist people are those who work hard to hide their own biases and point the finger at others. It takes someone hyper-aware to exert that much effort on race issues.

[Gorlummm]

Really though most disturbing of all is the fact that a new member would come into our "house" with disrespectful comments on parts of everyday life in many areas of Thailand, and try to to stir up things with a question of whether Thai people are rascist. Some woud call it rascist to say that so-and-so's girlfriend has no self-respect because they have no indoor plumbing, they sleep on the floor calling it dirty, and saying that the neighbors coming over on the new boyfriends arrival is their way of begging for a few shots of whiskey. All because the boyfriend is more accustomed to the city life in Bangkok? Then to top it all off saying that you feel they are out to cheat you and that you do not trust them?!! I think your best bet (if learning about the culture is not something you can do) is to head over to California and find yoursef an aspiring actress to date. You are obviously off to about the worst start one could imagine if you have already lost trust, so it is probably best to cut your losses early in the game and find something more suited to your taste and lifestyle prefrences? Before anyone questions why I say this, perhaps you would better understand if you were to read the other post.

Very very sorry for comin into 'your house'. Am i not welcome? or igotnotime is running this website?

"stir things up" i only asked a question.

What do you mean that i should study about Thai culture? (in the other forum) I read on one of your comments you dont even live in Thailand.

The neignbours didnt come over for a couple of glasses of whiskey they came over to the finish the crate. I said her family had no respect because they didnt respect me.
In Scotland i often have to take sleeping pills to get to sleep at night. I told my girlfreind this and she knows i have trouble sleeping. Some kind off disorder my doctor said. I told them about their daft dog that barks and howls all night and asked them to stick a sock in its mouth because i couldnt get a wink of sleep all night. They just ignored my request and told me stop complaining. This is lack of respect for other people. They probably only want to get revenge after i refused to pay booze and food for hundreds of people.

I am not racist i have many black friends at home, some Chinese ones. I can also tolerate Indian people.When i see a black man on the street i dont point out to everyone and say 'Hey its a black man' just like when the Thais say "hey Farang'.

In Scotalnd it is rude to ask a foreigner "Where do you come from?" but people here always want to know your business. Where am i from, i think that is my business and nothing to do with them. I asked 'Are Thais racist?' as when they see someone who looks different to them they laugh and tell jokes, in my country that is called racist. But maybe i am wrong.

[tevyrefficy]

JIMMY SPUD,,Because people ask where you are from is not because they are racist, just that they are interested to know where you are from,
You know that most of us look alike and they have no way of knowing if you are English, Sweede, Aussie or American, and to be pointed out as FARANG is no offence intended.
Folks come over to my house and look at things from other countrys on my PC, A lot of folks here do not have much formal education or a very good understanding of geography and like to look at things and ask questions, which I think is great.

Now I made another post on your other thread, and to set something straight, I do not really know what is meant by Thai Customs, I guess that it just means how people think and how they live, and like I said before, Just be polite and not to foreward in first dealings and treat others in a manner to which you want to be treated and you will get along OK, but so many Farang come here and make a big show of arrival and want everyone to know it and look up to them that they have big noisy partys, but not everyone does that and the ones that do have conditioned the locals to it and some expect it and think all farang are fools, It seems that every poor country is contaminated with these "bigshot" farangs that soon contaminate the people and the customs and make it hard on people that just want a quiet life without all the problems.

You know that if you start feeding stray cats that soon you have a yard full of em expecting you to throw out huge amounts of food and they always hanging around your back door...

[xT0U3UGh]

Racist to me mean the different in class and you are superior than others, you don't want to be close to those people or in the same room in like school,bus. restaurant or public places that have sign like "This toilet is for Thai only Farang goes pee at home" That is racist.

Thai girls do express about appearance specially their complexion, many Thais consider light skin is sexxy just like gentlemen prefer blonde it does not mean the gentlemen or girls are racists. It is just expression some girls just make too stupid reacted faces. To me line them up I will kiss them all.

[toreesi]

You come across a bit snobbish there in your comments to my post.
My observations result from many discussions and talks I had with my colleagues at Chulalomgkorn University. Of course, you can never generalize, but many people I know have never been outside of Thailand, and I am the first farang they have met so far.
As to 'no religion': my research often leads me to a small village in the north of Thailand. The schoolteacher there was higly surprised when I told her that - no, not everybody drinks, no, drugs are also illegal in my country and yes, people also go to church and follow the religious principles.
She actually also told me that they do not want people to visit the village, as they fear that it would be a bad influence for their children.
As to your remark about Will Smith: I do not think we need to discuss whether he is handsome or not, the fact was that my teacher argued herself that he is not because he is black - her own words, and as to her command of English - the lady teaches Thai to foreign students - if she means ugly then it is ugly, her vocabulary is more advanced than you think.
Here is another story I found quite interesting: one day I ordered things from the supermarket downstairs, and later realized the girl who brought it up to my room had cheated me outrageously with the bill. My friend was here at the time (he is Thai) and so we went downstairs so we could sort out the matter in Thai. The girl was quite ashamed, but would not admit it, so she said to my friend that when she delivered the goods I was in the room with a black man. Must be the ultimate accusation.
As to Thai peple and racist: as I said before, many pepople have no personal experience with farangs, and do agree that when they see shows like Sex and the City, or Desperate Housewifes, etc., what els3e can they think about us?

[tevyrefficy]

I see that your mind is made up, so what further can we say on the subject..