[NodePark]

I read in a magazine that 49% of Bkk.`s population are partly of Chinese ancestry, and I believe it`s true, `cause I have seen it myself. Half or more of Bkk. population has oriental features like Chinese, Korean, Japanese..etc...and others have more Indo-European features-like Indians, Bangladeshi, Pakistani...etc.-which is understable since Thailand is positioned on border of these two great human races & cultures. Also Thai music to me sounds like mixture of Indias & Chinese music. My wife looks very much "oriental" many people who see our foto together believe she is Japanese or Chinese. But she does not even want to hear thing like that..she says she is 100% Thai, though her father was burried in Chinese cemetery, one more indication that she is Chinese or half Chinese...How do other Thais see themselves?..Just as Thais?..or some other national origin?...(Hope its not too sensitive a subject)

[Mjyzpzph]

How do other Thais see themselves?..Just as Thais?..or some other national origin?...(Hope its not too sensitive a subject)

My wife and her family were all born in Thailand but I have never heard her call herself Thai, it's always Khymae, and that is the language spoken in our village.

David

[monologue]

My wife looks very much "oriental" many people who see our foto together believe she is Japanese or Chinese. But she does not even want to hear thing like that..she says she is 100% Thai, though her father was burried in Chinese cemetery.

I can understand your wife's sentiment because most Thais of Chinese descent have been here for generations. Even King Taksin before the Chakri dynasty was ethnic Chinese.
I'm sure the British royal family consider themselves British, as do most British people (though we might joke), even though their blood is very mixed.
And what about Americans and Australians?I have an American friend who's great-great-grandfather emigrated from Germany but he is definitely American.

[Baromaro]

Im not an expert but I read a few books in the subject, and its really about definitions and viewpoints.

Socially the thai identity is a quite recent development.

The modern thai, in the sense of a thaispeaking person who is legally and cultural a member of the Thai nation doesnt necassary have to be of pure thai descent, he might as well be descent of immigrants from China, hilltribes or other tribes.

[Fvmfrctt]

Steven Cleary is one of the better forum members who can explain Honsolo's question. And, it is a very good one. Hope he decides to post his thoughts.

[timmybrown]

though her father was burried in Chinese cemetery, one more indication that she is Chinese or half Chinese..)

Dude, I believe you ever claimed your "Thai" wife had NEVER heard or seen a cemetery in Thailand before. Please get your story straight.

[NodePark]

Sure will my friend...I believe in that post over 6 months ago,...I was talking about Bangkok cemeteries, not Thailand cemeteries, and I believe I was saying that I have not seen one cemetery in Bkk....not that my wife had not seen one....my wife`s father is not burried in Bkk. but far away in the country...in Sattahip Chon Bury-where he lived with his wife, only my wife lives in Bkk.( no confusion here)

[Mjyzpzph]

Sure will my friend...I believe in that post over 6 months ago,...I was talking about Bangkok cemeteries, not Thailand cemeteries, and I believe I was saying that I have not seen one cemetery in Bkk....not that my wife had not seen one....my wife`s father is not burried in Bkk. but far away in the country...in Sattahip Chon Bury-where he lived with his wife, only my wife lives in Bkk.( no confusion here)

You actually said when you asked your wife why there were no cemetaries in Bangkok she didn't even know what a cemetary was, which is confusing.

David

When I was riding through Bangkoks many streets, with my wife, I did not see even ONE cemetery. When I asked her why there are no cemeteries in Bkk., she did not even know what a cemetery is...I have a map of Bkk. and look as much as I want I can`t see one cemetery there.So what happens with dead in Bkk.-they all get cremated?...or there are cemeteries outside the city?...do all Buddhist cremate their dead?...no burrials?...

[timmybrown]

I believe in that post over 6 months ago,...I was talking about Bangkok cemeteries, not Thailand cemeteries, and I believe I was saying that I have not seen one cemetery in Bkk....not that my wife had not seen one....my wife`s father is not burried in Bkk. but far away in the country...in Sattahip Chon Bury-where he lived with his wife, only my wife lives in Bkk.( no confusion here)

When I was riding through Bangkoks many streets, with my wife, I did not see even ONE cemetery. When I asked her why there are no cemeteries in Bkk., she did not even know what a cemetery is...I have a map of Bkk. and look as much as I want I can`t see one cemetery there.So what happens with dead in Bkk.-they all get cremated?...or there are cemeteries outside the city?...do all Buddhist cremate their dead?...no burrials?... So after 6 months your wife suddenly remember her father was buried in a cemetery in Chonburi?

The thing is, most of your questions here can be easily answered by your "Thai" wife. Like your "car" question. It seens like you don't communicate well with her or you simply don't have a "Thai" wife at all.

If you have questions about Thailand, please feel free to ask. I'm sure a lot of nice people here will answer you. You don't have to make up stories to extract informations.

[markshome23]

my issue with this question is that so many times people want to identify themselves as Thai, not necessarily as in ethnic Thai, but as as in Thai nationals, Thai native speakers, Thai at heart - however, others want to overwrite their self-identification.
I mean Thais of Indian descent, Muslim Thais, hilltribe people, luk kreungs, or that unfortunate farang girl in the news here a few months ago who was born to a missionary couple and always lived in Thailand but has problems with her visa.
but of course I understand in this region country borderlines were drawn rather arbitrarily, and some extreme steps had to be taken to create modern nations and national identities. pity so many have been "left out", and that in many ways the Chinese call the shots, who are just as "outsiders" as other relatively recent immigrants and a lot more "outsiders" than many of those they look down on.

[Baromaro]

Its a confusing and often controversial question.

In Europe we spent a few hundred years more to solve this problem, and there are still debate esp in these days when people migrate.

[NodePark]

Well Mr.s` Bucky & David sorry that one word in my post of 6 months ago has confused you....Of course my wife knew what cemetery was, when I asked her when I was there, (her father is burried in a Chinese cemetery)...but she did not know the English word for it,...so after I explained it to her then she understood what I was talking about..After all how many Thais living in Bkk. use that word -CEMETERY?...And yes, I sure DO have a Thai wife...if you doubt me...I can send you some fotos of our wedding,...or if there is a blog on this web where members can post their fotos,...I would surely post some for you...Well hope this cleared some misunderstandings

[NodePark]

To Mr. Sved- Yes you are right, in some borderline parts of the world different people have been inter mingling for thousands of years, so that today, its hard to define a true pure nationality. I read some Thai history on line..and original Thais came-to present Thailand-from central China, north of Tibet, but there were already many different tribes and nationalities living in present Thailand, such as Laotians, and "immigrant" Thais had to fight their neighbors to get accepted and establish their homeland....But when I told this to my wife,...she rejected that, and refused to be identified as of Chinese origin...well no problem here,...she is my little Thai PATRIOT

[SeftyJokipl]

Like often my colleagues who visit Thailand try to rub it again and again ' that is based from Indian culture' and I do my best to tell them that once they adopted it as their own it is theirs and if they practise something more than us, it is more of theirs than ours.... and there is no purpose to remind one of the source - which I call 'tacit politeness'. So, like that, if someone says he is Thai... so it is. At a basic human level. Later we can analyse for other reasons, but cannot take that ownership away or ... should not.

[QxmFwtlam]

From what I know… the real Thais are the people of the land, with the more sun brown skin. But over the last centuries, with interracial marriages and all, it has all mixed like a salad now. If someone is buried in a cemetery, that’s Thai-Chinese. Thai-Thais told me the original version of a funeral is to BBQ the dead and to either keep or spread the ashes. If you speak to the Thai citizens often enough, you will find there is actually some concealed subtle ways in which Thais of different colors look at each other.

It doesn’t matter whatever a Thai-Thai, Thai-Chinese, Thai-Farang.. This is Thailand, they all love the King and unite as just Thais.

[Lebybynctisee]

well, im dont know much,
but i think that Thais are people who are born in Thailand,
or have parents that are Thai.

I'm Hmong. Hill tribes, like they are always reffered to.
My aunts and uncles were born in Thailand,
and we call them Hmong- Thai.
And the greatly accept that they are Thai.
Language wise, culture wise, they are Thai.
and true, they LOVE the King.
so, they're Thai at heart.

It's just like America, i guess.
i'm Hmong, but I'm also American.
but then the Natives Indians were the first Americans.
but then again, it's just like that 'who's Thai' situation.

jewie404, put it well. i think so.

okay. thanks.
this topic is interesting.

[DrJonson]

Hy itrayya, my mother in law was Hmong, my father in law, according to the family, was 'from Burma', but whether he was a tribesman or not no one seems to know, but the point is that all the descendants from that marriage were considered Thai in every way.
Nice to see you posting.

[kanchouska]

From what i have read, the percentage of Thai-Chinese Bangkokians is much higher than 49%, something around 75%. This does not of course, count migrants from rural areas.

Who Are The Real Thais?

That is exceptional difficult to answer. If we delve into the essence of Thai Culture, we find 'Nation', 'Religion' and 'Monarchy. Let us have a look at the monarchy, which is often defined as 'pure Thai' and the heart of the Thai people.
The present monarchy is also quite Thai-Chinese, King Rama the Ninth's mother was half Chinese. The monarchy also has other foreign blood and especially Persian (inherted from the Bunnag family during the reigns of Rama 4 and 5).

Just this fact puzzles the real definition.


If you look at Isarn; since they speak a kind of Laotian not even Thai, they are also historically Laotian, so not 'real Thai'. If you go the North of Thailand, those people are also historically 'Lanna' coming from Burma - so you could say they are not 'real Thais'. As for the south of Thailand, they are mostly Muslim and do not regard themselves to be 'real Thais'. Historically, it could be argued, they migrated from Malay and Indonesia.
As for Central Thailand and the land's other urban areas, they are mostly Thai-Chinese.

It could be argued therefore, that the mass percentage of Thais are not in fact 'real Thais'.

The closest you can to so-called 'real Thais' are the rural plains of Central Thailand, families which have had no links to Chinese. It was during the era of Sakdina in the 19th century that many Thai-Thais escaped into the countryside, so avoiding 4 months of the year having to service the monarchy with free work. The diligent Chinese didn't mind and stayed in the urban areas (this division of the Thai-Thais and Thai-Chinese can still be clearly seen even today).

I think those rural families in the central region are the closest you can get to 'Real Thais', but like i mentioned above and the monarchy and Thai culture, it is exceptionally difficult to really define what 'real-Thais' mean.

Finally, have a look at the name of this country 'Thailand'. In contrary to common belief, 'Thai' does not mean 'Free' - it does in fact relate to the land of 'Tai' people. The Tai folk too are historically made of folk from all over the show.

[Baromaro]

A note about the chinese immigrants.

They have been coming to Thailand for many hundred years and some are very distinct from thais in terms of culture and language but many are not.

Far from every thai-chinese stays in chinatown or even speak chinese, for many their heritage is just a novelty from the past (altho they usually like to point it out).

[SeftyJokipl]

Maybe the results of the Genographic Project will help this thread or than maybe it may cause further damage on this issue! Or maybe they do not go to such details?

I was planning to be born in Thailand in my next life, but now this thread is real confusing my choice of the right parents