[vansVoish]

In the Bangkok Post today, there was this letter from a disgruntled tourist:

No place for the handicapped tourist

This is just to express our incredible disappointment during our holiday in your country. We have a wheelchair-bound child and we found the complete lack of facilities for the handicapped disgusting.

Nowhere could we get across any road as no one stopped at the pedestrian crossings; the only way across was by "overpass", which has no handicapped facility. Most shopping complexes have no type of handicapped facilities including toilets for the handicapped. Taxis most of the time refused to take us because of the handicapped child with us.

Furthermore, holes in pavements and stalls on footpaths made it impossible to use a wheelchair. A warning must be issued by foreign governments on the dangers facing handicapped tourists here.

PETER Although the situation in Thailand has improved over the years, there still aren't many facilities for wheelchairs to roam in the city. But then, coming to think of it, how many wheelchairs - and baby prams - do you actually see in the city? Do families hide their handicapped members at home because they are ashamed, or do we hardly see them because they physically cannot get around? Must be the latter because you rarely see babies too. But there must be more to it than that.

[Maydayvar]

Wow, that is really bad! I really felt bad for these tourist!

[DexOnenlyCymn]

The sidewalks and things are in such a state that I am surprised that more drinkers do not seriously injure them selves while getting around the citys here, let alone handicapped folks.

[NutChusty]

I'm looking forward to our forum expert on this matter, David_Loves_Ubonwan has battled the odds alone in Bangkok.

[adverwork]

In the Bangkok Post today, there was this letter from a disgruntled tourist:

No place for the handicapped tourist

This is just to express our incredible disappointment during our holiday in your country. We have a wheelchair-bound child and we found the complete lack of facilities for the handicapped disgusting.

Nowhere could we get across any road as no one stopped at the pedestrian crossings; the only way across was by "overpass", which has no handicapped facility. Most shopping complexes have no type of handicapped facilities including toilets for the handicapped. Taxis most of the time refused to take us because of the handicapped child with us.

Furthermore, holes in pavements and stalls on footpaths made it impossible to use a wheelchair. A warning must be issued by foreign governments on the dangers facing handicapped tourists here.

PETER

Although the situation in Thailand has improved over the years, there still aren't many facilities for wheelchairs to roam in the city. But then, coming to think of it, how many wheelchairs - and baby prams - do you actually see in the city? Do families hide their handicapped members at home because they are ashamed, or do we hardly see them because they physically cannot get around? Must be the latter because you rarely see babies too. But there must be more to it than that. Well this isn't exactly my experience.

Sure, Bangkok is difficult to get around and the pavements are full of obstructions and holes. But I've been other places in Thailand that are not quite so bad. As for traffic not stopping for you to cross, well that isn't unique to Thailand, and in Bangkok it is often so slow moving you can slowly work your way through it and across the road if you are brave enough!!! So yes, Bangkok is quite difficult in this respect, so for getting around we mostly use taxi's.

Which brings us on to the point about taxi's. We have never had any problems with taxi's and never been refused. Taxi drivers have mostly been very helpful and many have even balanced my wheelchair on the front passenger seat if it has proved too difficult to fit in to the boot of the car. With songthaews drivers have always allowed me to sit up front with them, even in some cases making their wife go sit in the back.

The comment about shopping centres I find most confusing, we do most of our shopping in shopping malls simply for the reason that they are so wheelchair friendly and do have disabled facilities, particularly accessible toilets... We have been to more different, Carrefour, Lotus, and Big C malls than I can remember and have only ever had one difficulty - we like to go drink coffee in 'Black Canyon Coffee' and there was a branch in Big C Pathumwan/Pratunam where the entrance was 'exactly' the same width as my wheelchair. We got in and out with some difficulty and the staff were very apologetic and said they would see if something could be done about it.

As for the person who wrote the letter to the Bangkok Post, I am assuming that they are writing it from an American point of view where disabled facilities seem to be even better than they are in Europe so are expecting a higher standard than we are used to. (My assumption for this is because they use the word 'handicapped' rather than 'disabled', and also another phrase that is also frowned upon by British disabled people.)

Like Richard says, I too have seen very few disabled people in Thailand, tourist or locals. I can think only of a young lady seen often around Pattaya and Jomtien at night time that has only one leg, she goes around photographing people for a small charge. And in the same area is a gentleman in a wheelchair that has no legs, he goes around with a basket of cigarettes and other small items to sell. And in Bangkok near to the New World Lodge hotel I have often see a car parked and on the registration plate the bit that would identify where the car is registered is replaced by the blue disabled person logo.

David

[VXHLrsO1]

David, should you wish to respond to the "Bangkok Post" directly, here is the address to save you looking it up

emailostbag@bangkokpost.co.th

[adverwork]

David, should you wish to respond to the "Bangkok Post" directly, here is the address to save you looking it up

emailostbag@bangkokpost.co.th

Thanks Khun Don, I might just do that later this evening.

David

[agiopwer]

Very much enjoyed your words, David. I've read on here that you are active (a licensiate or something fancy ) with a group for peoples with disabilities in Wales. Are there equivalent social/active groups in Thailand?

I wanted share something about the 'handicapped' vs. 'disabled' language that you referred to in American vernacular. I agree that that word probably is a hint into the author being American... however, slowly people are changing from that. It's taking us a while. I teach diversity education at a university and cover Ableism and discuss language, etc. Our services on campus and in the city of Dallas that I coordinate with have all switched to 'disabilities' language long ago and we're starting to see some real changes in practice 'wheel chair accessible parking' etc.

[adverwork]

Very much enjoyed your words, David. I've read on here that you are active (a licensiate or something fancy ) with a group for peoples with disabilities in Wales. Are there equivalent social/active groups in Thailand?

That's the Disabled Photographer's Society (I am also a member of the Photographic Society of America); I am not actually a Licentiate yet - my portfolio of 10 prints for it was supposed to be assessed this weekend but unfortunately owing to postal strikes in the UK I don't think I will make the deadline so will have to await the next round of assessments on April 15th in 6 months time.

As a rule I tend to not have much to do with disabled groups (other than a SCUBA diving group) as in my experience many disabled people talk about doing things but don't actually do them; I prefer to just get out and do the things I want to do...

I wanted share something about the 'handicapped' vs. 'disabled' language that you referred to in American vernacular. I agree that that word probably is a hint into the author being American... however, slowly people are changing from that. It's taking us a while. I teach diversity education at a university and cover Ableism and discuss language, etc. Our services on campus and in the city of Dallas that I coordinate with have all switched to 'disabilities' language long ago and we're starting to see some real changes in practice 'wheel chair accessible parking' etc.

I am not a particularly 'PC' person myself and I don't think most people I know would be too bothered about the 'handicapped' vs 'disabled' words, it just tends to point out whether someone is European or North American. The phrase used that tends to frowned upon here is 'wheelchair-bound', everyone I know would say 'wheelchair-user'.

I gave up driving just over two years ago (I have a free bus pass now and many local buses are accessible), partly because I'm not getting any younger and was finding it more difficult to lift my wheelchair in and out of my car and partly because I was getting so annoyed at the number of people that was parking in disabled spaces that had no right to. I have many times had people tell me that they have seen me get around in my wheelchair and that I don't need to park so close to facilities - this may be true but for many disabled people we use these parking spaces because they are wider. Often if you park in a normal space you find when you return to your car there is not enough room to get your wheelchair between you car and the one parked next to it.

David

[zilsolley3]

I gave up driving just over two years ago (I have a free bus pass now and many local buses are accessible), partly because I'm not getting any younger and was finding it more difficult to lift my wheelchair in and out of my car and partly because I was getting so annoyed at the number of people that was parking in disabled spaces that had no right to. I have many times had people tell me that they have seen me get around in my wheelchair and that I don't need to park so close to facilities - this may be true but for many disabled people we use these parking spaces because they are wider. Often if you park in a normal space you find when you return to your car there is not enough room to get your wheelchair between you car and the one parked next to it.

David

People can be so selfish! That would really suck! Just because you can move around doesn't mean it's easy. It's like when people ask me how I did it when my children were younger. (I had twins when my youngest was 10 months old.) As if I had a choice not to take care of them!!! LOL It's a poor comparison to your situation. But, what can you do; but, do what you got to do.

I've often wondered... In general, how do disabled people feel about people without disabilites using handicapped restrooms?

Wendy

[NutChusty]

Reminds me of my former Lebanese girlfriend, she once worked in a doctors office for a short period of time, she allegedly got RSI in both her wrists, Personally I could not see any thing wrong with her wrist, well she got an official disabled label for her car as she told the doctor, she could not carry her shopping to far and needed to park her car in a disabled spot to be close to the shops, as her RSI did not let her carry things easily. To me that was a lot of rubbish, she was fitter than most woman I new, it was just a scam so she could get parking any where she want easily. I told her these parking spots are for people who really need them, but she said it my right.
Well I imagine there are not many public busses in Bangkok like in Australia, where the busses have hydraulic suspension and lower to road level to let a wheel chair on, but at least there is one advantage for disabled people in Bangkok, that is at least a taxi is affordable to the minimal incomed farang.

[adverwork]

Well I imagine there are not many public busses in Bangkok like in Australia, where the busses have hydraulic suspension and lower to road level to let a wheel chair on, but at least there is one advantage for disabled people in Bangkok, that is at least a taxi is affordable to the minimal incomed farang.

We have many buses here in Wales with the hydraulic suspension that lowers, and, as I understand it (but I may be wrong) all newly registered buses must have this.

Also in Wales (unlike England) we issue all residents over the age of 60 with a free bus pass, this is also available to disabled people with mobility difficulties too. And living near the English border it also allows us to travel on cross-border routes provided the journey either begins or ends in Wales.

Now if only the nearest bus stop wasn't 2km from my home...

David

[VXHLrsO1]

We have many buses here in Wales with the hydraulic suspension that lowers, and, as I understand it (but I may be wrong) all newly registered buses must have this.

Also in Wales (unlike England) we issue all residents over the age of 60 with a free bus pass, this is also available to disabled people with mobility difficulties too. And living near the English border it also allows us to travel on cross-border routes provided the journey either begins or ends in Wales.

Now if only the nearest bus stop wasn't 2km from my home...

David

Most places, if not in fact all, places in England issue free bus passes for the over 60's (I applied and got mine within minutes on my birthday last June!) Locally they issue passes for wheelchair users and some other severally disabled people-mobility wise and mentally. Full time registered helpers for the mentally disabled also get free passes, regardless of age.
My pass is restricted to my County-but next year I understand I can use it nationwide-but not long distance coaches (sadly!) Most of our buses have hydraulic suspension-but drivers are not always very quick to operate such, if at all, I notice-I am currently experiencing some obvious mobility problems and half the time struggle to get off the bus because the driver is too lazy it seems to lower the bus for just one passenger getting off-but at least, the bus stops are, thankfully, quite near to me.

[adverwork]

Most places, if not in fact all, places in England issue free bus passes for the over 60's (I applied and got mine within minutes on my birthday last June!) Locally they issue passes for wheelchair users and some other severally disabled people-mobility wise and mentally. Full time registered helpers for the mentally disabled also get free passes, regardless of age.
My pass is restricted to my County-but next year I understand I can use it nationwide-but not long distance coaches (sadly!) Most of our buses have hydraulic suspension-but drivers are not always very quick to operate such, if at all, I notice-I am currently experiencing some obvious mobility problems and half the time struggle to get off the bus because the driver is too lazy it seems to lower the bus for just one passenger getting off-but at least, the bus stops are, thankfully, quite near to me.

Thanks for clarifying that. I know Cheshire issues bus passes that are restricted to that County and that next year they will be valid England wide. I didn't realise *each* County in England had a County bus pass.

I think you will find that when next year your pass becomes nationwide it will be restricted to England. Currently Welsh bus passes have the badge of the County that issued it on it but it is valid anywhere in Wales since it was introduced some years back. As I understand it when your national system comes in next spring Welsh passes will still be restricted to Wales and cross border routes where our journey either begins or ends in Wales.

David

[Emunsesoxmete]

sometimes sidewalks are a major challenge even for those perfectly ambulatory. I have seen someone disappearing down a manhole and it wasn't a nice experience I guess for the guy involved.
I suspect I should give up dreaming about utopian solutions, shouldn't I?

[adverwork]

More than 50 millions people live in the land the size of a state in USA.

Thailand is actually bigger in area than all but two US States (Alaska and Texas), and more than twice the area of 43 of the States. It is also larger than every European country apart from France. Thailand is the 50th largest country in the world.

It is 210% the size of the UK with a population of only 105% that of the UK.
It is 143% the size of Germany with a population of only 75% of Germany.

So Thailand isn't really overpopulated by European standards.

David

[adverwork]

Did you write a reply to the "Bangkok Post" ?

Yes I did.

David

[BuyNetHosting]

Hi All,
In response to this article, I am sorry Peter's family had unpleasant experience in Thailand. I do not have "handicapped" children so can't even emagine how it felt. But in defense of Thailand, the tourist should realize that no other countries will be like their own regarding facilities, etc. When visiting other country especially Thailand they should be polite and friendly to people. Some American (especially from the West coast) can be pushy and rude, Thai people are turned off by this and they will not want to help these people -- taxi driver etc. or may be he has to go turn his car in to the taxi company? People need space for stall so they can sell their wares so they survive. I was with my daughter in Thailand 2 years ago and bargained for shirts for her, we were polite and friendly, the sale clerk gave us the bargained price. There was an Indian lady who was very rude, who came back twice for the same shirt but the clerk wouldn't sale them to her for the bargained price, he later tole me it was because she was rude.

[RagonaCon]

From Bucky's pic: do they have any regulation against disable persons using the bike-path? Bycicles are very useful vehicles, using only about 35 calories taking one person 0.6 km. while a bus would use 920, and a medium car would be 1,860 ( a Hummer would be 27,870- Grrrrr..what's its driver thinking!!) The disable person's wheelchair would be using similar energy to a bycicle. I don't see why both couldn't share the path, they will have very lively conversation even.

Frankly, I don't think cyclist will use that bicycle path. Its a small pathway and Sukhumvit Road is a very busy street day and night and always walking with people. I also don't encourage people to cycle in Bangkok.... its too dangerous with the pot holes and reckless drivers and riders.

[VXHLrsO1]

Thought this article would be of interest to you David-Lets hope the promise is kept concerning other walkways as well. (Bit of self interest here, as on my next trip I may have to negotiate some of Bangkok's generally awful pavements, and my ankles are far from what they were when I was last there a decade or so ago!)