^ ahahahhaa! 'tribesman'.
i dunno, sometimes it's different to hear 'tribe people' rather than Hmong.
but i guess that's fine too.
nice to hear that. thanks.

like in politics, liberalists would want everyone to get along,
but in this realistic world, people will always be irrational and rational.

i think im off topic.
yah, i agree with David.
take care.

Like often my colleagues who visit Thailand try to rub it again and again ' that is based from Indian culture' and I do my best to tell them that once they adopted it as their own it is theirs and if they practise something more than us, it is more of theirs than ours.... and there is no purpose to remind one of the source - which I call 'tacit politeness'. So, like that, if someone says he is Thai... so it is. At a basic human level. Later we can analyse for other reasons, but cannot take that ownership away or ... should not.

From what i have read, the percentage of Thai-Chinese Bangkokians is much higher than 49%, something around 75%. This does not of course, count migrants from rural areas.

Who Are The Real Thais?

That is exceptional difficult to answer. If we delve into the essence of Thai Culture, we find 'Nation', 'Religion' and 'Monarchy. Let us have a look at the monarchy, which is often defined as 'pure Thai' and the heart of the Thai people.
The present monarchy is also quite Thai-Chinese, King Rama the Ninth's mother was half Chinese. The monarchy also has other foreign blood and especially Persian (inherted from the Bunnag family during the reigns of Rama 4 and 5).

Just this fact puzzles the real definition.


If you look at Isarn; since they speak a kind of Laotian not even Thai, they are also historically Laotian, so not 'real Thai'. If you go the North of Thailand, those people are also historically 'Lanna' coming from Burma - so you could say they are not 'real Thais'. As for the south of Thailand, they are mostly Muslim and do not regard themselves to be 'real Thais'. Historically, it could be argued, they migrated from Malay and Indonesia.
As for Central Thailand and the land's other urban areas, they are mostly Thai-Chinese.

It could be argued therefore, that the mass percentage of Thais are not in fact 'real Thais'.

The closest you can to so-called 'real Thais' are the rural plains of Central Thailand, families which have had no links to Chinese. It was during the era of Sakdina in the 19th century that many Thai-Thais escaped into the countryside, so avoiding 4 months of the year having to service the monarchy with free work. The diligent Chinese didn't mind and stayed in the urban areas (this division of the Thai-Thais and Thai-Chinese can still be clearly seen even today).

I think those rural families in the central region are the closest you can get to 'Real Thais', but like i mentioned above and the monarchy and Thai culture, it is exceptionally difficult to really define what 'real-Thais' mean.

Finally, have a look at the name of this country 'Thailand'. In contrary to common belief, 'Thai' does not mean 'Free' - it does in fact relate to the land of 'Tai' people. The Tai folk too are historically made of folk from all over the show.

My wife and her family were all born in Thailand but I have never heard her call herself Thai, it's always Khymae, and that is the language spoken in our village. http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/smile.png

David

Well said Trangam. But ironically since we are all different, not everyone thinks that way.

Hy itrayya, my mother in law was Hmong, my father in law, according to the family, was 'from Burma', but whether he was a tribesman or not no one seems to know, but the point is that all the descendants from that marriage were considered Thai in every way.
Nice to see you posting.

From what I know… the real Thais are the people of the land, with the more sun brown skin. But over the last centuries, with interracial marriages and all, it has all mixed like a salad now. If someone is buried in a cemetery, that’s Thai-Chinese. Thai-Thais told me the original version of a funeral is to BBQ the dead and to either keep or spread the ashes. If you speak to the Thai citizens often enough, you will find there is actually some concealed subtle ways in which Thais of different colors look at each other.

It doesn’t matter whatever a Thai-Thai, Thai-Chinese, Thai-Farang.. This is Thailand, they all love the King and unite as just Thais.

Dude, I believe you ever claimed your "Thai" wife had NEVER heard or seen a cemetery in Thailand before. Please get your story straight. http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...s/rolleyes.png

To Mr. Sved- Yes you are right, in some borderline parts of the world different people have been inter mingling for thousands of years, so that today, its hard to define a true pure nationality. I read some Thai history on line..and original Thais came-to present Thailand-from central China, north of Tibet, but there were already many different tribes and nationalities living in present Thailand, such as Laotians, and "immigrant" Thais had to fight their neighbors to get accepted and establish their homeland....But when I told this to my wife,...she rejected that, and refused to be identified as of Chinese originhttp://www.thailandqa.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.png...well no problem here,...she is my little Thai PATRIOThttp://www.thailandqa.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.png

For readers of Thai, there is an excellent collection of essays and articles by ÊبԵµì ǧÉìà·È (Sujit Wongtes) called ¤¹ä·ÂÁÒ¨Ò¡ä˹ (Where do the Thais Come From?).

He shows how modern Thailand, Thai culture and language have developed over literally thousands of years of migration and intermingling of different peoples, particularly along the trade routes and waterways. There are many points of interest, particularly how the language that developed into modern Thai was adopted in the area as a common language of commerce; and how the 'Siem Kuk' depicted on the wall murals of Angkor Wat (the first reference made to people of Siam) were probably from an area centering on Vientiane.

An engrossing read.

Its a confusing and often controversial question.

In Europe we spent a few hundred years more to solve this problem, and there are still debate esp in these days when people migrate.

Im not an expert but I read a few books in the subject, and its really about definitions and viewpoints.

Socially the thai identity is a quite recent development.

The modern thai, in the sense of a thaispeaking person who is legally and cultural a member of the Thai nation doesnt necassary have to be of pure thai descent, he might as well be descent of immigrants from China, hilltribes or other tribes.

my issue with this question is that so many times people want to identify themselves as Thai, not necessarily as in ethnic Thai, but as as in Thai nationals, Thai native speakers, Thai at heart - however, others want to overwrite their self-identification.
I mean Thais of Indian descent, Muslim Thais, hilltribe people, luk kreungs, or that unfortunate farang girl in the news here a few months ago who was born to a missionary couple and always lived in Thailand but has problems with her visa.
but of course I understand in this region country borderlines were drawn rather arbitrarily, and some extreme steps had to be taken to create modern nations and national identities. pity so many have been "left out", and that in many ways the Chinese call the shots, who are just as "outsiders" as other relatively recent immigrants and a lot more "outsiders" than many of those they look down on.

You actually said when you asked your wife why there were no cemetaries in Bangkok she didn't even know what a cemetary was, which is confusing. http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/smile.png

David

nice one david
keith

I know countries in this region like to define themselves as ethnic states, but it just doesn't work with so many cultures and minorities.... shouldn't Thai be like an umbrella term for all the diverse peoples in this country? seeing both what they have in common, but also what makes them unique and special?
seems like I am having a visionary morning.

(a kid has just come up here and insisted on insering this: http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/devil.gif)

Who are the REAL Thais?...
 

I read in a magazine that 49% of Bkk.`s population are partly of Chinese ancestry, and I believe it`s true, `cause I have seen it myself. Half or more of Bkk. population has oriental features like Chinese, Korean, Japanese..etc...and others have more Indo-European features-like Indians, Bangladeshi, Pakistani...etc.-which is understable since Thailand is positioned on border of these two great human races & cultures. Also Thai music to me sounds like mixture of Indias & Chinese music. My wife looks very much "oriental" many people who see our foto together believe she is Japanese or Chinese. But she does not even want to hear thing like thathttp://www.thailandqa.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.png..she says she is 100% Thai, though her father was burried in Chinese cemetery, one more indication that she is Chinese or half Chinese...How do other Thais see themselves?..Just as Thais?..or some other national origin?...(Hope its not too sensitive a subject)

Maybe the results of the Genographic Project will help this thread or than maybe it may cause further damage on this issue! Or maybe they do not go to such details?http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/brush.gif

I was planning to be born in Thailand in my next life, but now this thread is real confusing my choice of the right parentshttp://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag.../laughlong.gif

When I was riding through Bangkoks many streets, with my wife, I did not see even ONE cemetery. When I asked her why there are no cemeteries in Bkk., she did not even know what a cemetery is...I have a map of Bkk. and look as much as I want I can`t see one cemetery there.So what happens with dead in Bkk.-they all get cremated?...or there are cemeteries outside the city?...do all Buddhist cremate their dead?...no burrials?... So after 6 months your wife suddenly remember her father was buried in a cemetery in Chonburi? http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...s/rolleyes.png

The thing is, most of your questions here can be easily answered by your "Thai" wife. Like your "car" question. It seens like you don't communicate well with her or you simply don't have a "Thai" wife at all.

If you have questions about Thailand, please feel free to ask. I'm sure a lot of nice people here will answer you. You don't have to make up stories to extract informations.