[Podosinovik]

Quote[/b] (paul_au @ Jan. 20 2005,20:20)]Well my former Thai girlfriend was a fair skin educated type, who could speak perfect English, that's what I like. Her father was a dark skin Thai but her mother was of Chinese decent. She has two university's degree, is a drinker and very rowdy, well you would not expect an educated Thai lady to behave like that, but maybe because her father was in a Rock Band, her up bring was different.

Paul,

Again, u made a rather sweeping statement. It is now clear to me that you don't really know the Thais. One or more University Degrees does not a "quiet" girl make. There are all sorts. "How do I know?", you may ask.

Well, I co-own a pub with some friends in Bangkok, meant for local thais. You hardly see any farangs there, and the occasional ones there are brought by their thai friends.

Where my pub is located, is a happening place for younger crowds, especially the University going ones, and of course working executives (many of whom are grads). Compared to some of them, the lead singer and his femal co-singer in my band are rather mild

I tell u. I had a lot of fun just sitting outside my pub quietly observing all the going-ons. Best part so far was a time when a dad came along with his son and the son's girlfriend, and they had a good time at my pub. That was to them, a family outing! Of course many times I also wish that my beloved can be by my side each time I go, but she sometimes have her own errands to run in Chiangrai/Chiangmai areas.

Guess the crazy thing is as a pub pwner, I dun smoke and until very recently dun even drink. Until I met my beloved, that is. Nowadays we like just to spend some quite time together, sipping our drinks and soaking in each other's company, not at my noisy pub, but at a more sub-dued pub restaurant else where, or at wherever she or I put up. Smoking for us is still out, though we are not against friends smoking. We accept others as they are, but we do net feel compelled to do the same.

I urge you to open your mind. I don't live in Thailand (at least not yet) and only visit about once a month. Yet I have a funny feeling I know the place and people a lot more than you do. Instead of putting myself high on a pedestal, I try to assimilate into their culture, though it does not mean I must do all that they do. As a result, I have felt accepted wherever I go in Thailand, by people from all walks of life. One of the things I look forward to is to spend a 2 week stint in a Thai temple, like many Thai men do. Hope to understand more about their beliefs. Now I only hear it from my beloved.

[Caursedus]

being a farang I prefer fair skin girls the most and the lighter the better, with natural blond hair, maybe because this is my colouring, but I know many Farangs who like a girl with a tan.
About the colour of Asian girls, I prefer the ones with the lighter skin colour over the dark ones, but that is just me.
But rather than just looking at skin colour, I think farang men prefer skin that is of soft, smooth and even texture and the colour is of secondary importance.
The problem with many western woman is they don't look after there skin like an Asian woman, genetically white woman were designed for cold climates with little sun light, but they instead spend hours every year exposing there skin in the sun in hot climates. As a result of this white woman ages very quickly, have terrible uneven blotchy skin and by the age of 25 years old look 40 years old.
Now on the other hand, Asian woman avoid the sun at all cost, there skin looks very smooth and unblemished, they look much younger, and that's why Farang Men like dark skin Asians, as that is there natural colour and there skin is in excellent condition.
Now even thought I prefer a fair skin girl, unless I go to Sweden and find a girl who never travels out of her country, it is rare to find a white girl who looks after her skin, so under those circumstances I prefer a Thai woman, who has good skin, who is genetically designed for a hot climate, but still stays out of the sun to look her best.

[Derrida]

On the idea of attraction - I think possibly it is that the exotic catches the eye.

Having grown up in the US, I have had many guy friends tell me that they have a taste for dark-skinned women because the exotic look catches their eye. The combination of golden brown or black skin with silky black hair and deep dark eyes is something that catches their eye.

Of course, I also think that in places like the Middle East or Africa, a woman with porcelain white skin and blond hair would be an exotic sight that would catch the eye there.

It's just my "2 cents" - but I think the initial attraction is an interest in the exotic. What it develops into is more and depends on how the relationship goes from that initial meeting.

[textarchive]

Quote[/b] ]whatever the cause of your bond with another person - stress or motivation or something in-between, or nothing - attraction is just a propoganda.

Trangam, I can't believe this is coming from you, lol. It sounds extremely cynical, which is not your usual style. If this indeed comes from personal experience, I can't help but feel sorry for you. It must have been a very negative experience then.

I think of the stability of love and marriage the same way as building a pyramid. Both have to start with a solid, wide base to give them stability. As the years go by, the trials of life will chip small and larger pieces away. How long they will last depends on the manner they were initially constructed. IMO it is unreasonable to start with a small base and expect it to become more stable later - it'd be like trying to build a pyramid upside down.

In more concrete terms; compare a relationship that started in a Patpong go-go bar, she being covered in whipped cream with a dozen hands all over her, while he was ogling half a dozen other girls - and another relationship that started in a banquette of an international conference in Amsterdam. Can you honestly say these initial circumstances don't matter, and they both have an equal chance of success? I just don't see how that'd be.

The only thing I could say is that no matter how good the initial factors were, they won't guarantee success for life - the couple still has to work on it every time. Like you said

Quote[/b] ]we have to be honest, respectful and ready to put our energies for the other.

So true! But the starting point is equally important, IMO.

[Casyimipist]

Well LOL that is a great idea. Very funny to think about. Very possible I guess. I knew my wife well before we bagan our relationship. I knew she talked alot, I knew she let her oldest child get away with murder and control her in many ways. I knew she was a demanding person. I certainly never considered her to be the 'exotic'.

But I was attracted to her. I am not saying anything negative about any culture, I am sure if I looked hard enough, for enough years, I could maybe find a white woman with the same disposition as my wife. Many white women are attractive even in my eyes. But personality makes the case. The personality I found just happened to be in an asian woman for me.

But I think you are right Prajantr it starts with attraction and sometimes moves beyond.

[Podosinovik]

Quote[/b] (mat @ Jan. 29 2005,16:47)]Trust me,my wife and her family are Thai.

I am sure of that Mat. Never has that been in doubt. Kon Neur's and Kon Issan's are all Thais. They just originate from different parts of Thailand in the past.

[UnduttRit]

Can it be said therefore that the Thai presumption that Farang only like dark-skinned girls is wrong??
And in fact only lies with one's own personal taste?
As paul_au, i too am more attracted to fair-skinned girls but unlike paul_au, caucasian girls dont attact me. I find fair-skinned Asians the most attractive ie Thai-Chinese, Northern Thais, Japanese or a Vietnamese etc... in fact it an innate attraction, as i remember even when i was very young i would look at the girls on the Singapore Airlines commercials and think to myself 'i will marry a girl from Singapore one day!'.

Not only girls attracted me to Asia, of course. I remember when i was 10 or 11 years age i would read 'Tin Tin in Tibet' etc... and think to myself 'One day i will live in Asia' and especially everything about South-east, i loved the place even before i cam here. Then in my last year of High School i had a Malay girlfriend, i loved her kindness etc... Thus at only 19 i travelled around Asia for one year.
Could this innateness come from a previous life? im not sure. Even though im of caucasian race my friends at Primary School often called me 'Chinky' as i had quite squinted eyes and even today some Thais sometimes ask 'Are u half Thai"? Then, ever since i was very young i have also eaten with the fork in my right hand, i was often told off by my teachers for holding my cutlery wrong but it was natural for me. Then when i came to Asia i realised that here they only use their right hand to put something in their mouth. Weird co-incidence.

Getting back to the topic of personal taste i would like to go further and remark the 'Beauty is only skin deep' in Thai = 'Suay tae roop joop mai horm'. Therefore a 'soul-mate' = 'Neau khoo' doesnt have to be of any particular colour as love is love. One day that special girl will be loved by me because of her heart and not her skin colour.

My theory is that the reason that most Farang have dark-skinned girlfriends is that it is in fact the dark-skinned girls that like the Farang. They are also usually 'easier to get' as they usually have less eduaction and come from a less well off family than the fair-skinned Thai. The Thai-Chinese or Northern Thais are harder to get and patience is needed before a relationship is formed. Most farang dont have the patience and prefer a girl that will be happy to pop into to bed with him after just a few dates.

The dark-skinned girls from the rural north-east area in particular have always liked Farang for their kindness since the days of the Vietnam war, when flocks of them came to work in the bars of Udon Thani, Khorat, Phetburi Road, Patpong and Pattaya. Many of them finally married a farang and the neighbours of the wife's family were full of envy when they saw the farang building a big house for her parents. Til this day farang are held in high respect in the north-east and even if your daughter has worked in a bar it doesnt matter if her husband 'flashes the cash'.
Farangs are not so popular with the girls from the Central /Bkk/Northern or Southern regions. it is easy to know why a farang is not so liked in the South and that is because of religious differences. Then, in the Bkk/Northern and Central areas i theorise that farang are not so popular because having a farang boyfriend is synonymous to northern-eastern girls and since Thais look down on people from the north-east then dont want to feel like an 'Isarn girl'. One more theory I have is that in north-eastern culture the people are very rowdy, like to party, smoke and drink etc... and this is very typical of a farang tourist in Thailand too! So the rowdy wayward farang can dissolve into the Isarn way very easily. While that kind of farang behaviour is often unnaceptable to the other regions of Thailand and especially Thai-Chinese society, where diligence and the family responsibility are the are held with the upmost importance.

It can be said that certainly not all the girls from the north-east rural areas married to farang used to work the bar. Many of them worked in a hotel, restaurant etc... where they met their Farang boyfriend. Two friends of mine who have girlfriends from the north-east one met his darling in a Chicken on Rice shop near his school where she worked and the other in Emporium, Sukhumvit where she worked as a Sales Girl.

Most Thais presume farang only like dark-skinned girls as that is what they mostly see. The cruel fact that most Thai girls who have a Farang boyfriend worked the bar before. I also believe that the reason that most Farang dont have a fair-skinned girl is not that they find them unatractive but that they dont have the patience time or understanding to 'jeep' or chat up up such a girl as they say in Thai.

My girlfriend is from Nakhorn Sawan (Gateway to the north)and she is very fair-skinned for a Thai but she is only of a little Chinese descent. When traveling together she gets stared at more than me almost in disbelief by some Thais! "Look at that farang's girlfriend, she's not black, she's so fair-skinned!" Especially at Morchid (Northern/North-east) Bus Terminal where most of the people there are from the rural areas, you should see the look on their faces when they spot me and my girlfriend!

One more sad fact is that a Thai on seeing a farang with a dark-skinned northern-eastern girl (the Thais can spot a north-easten person just because of their distinct noses, or lack of one) will presume straight off that she is a 'Bar Girl'. So, when living in Thailand i have preferred a girlfriend to have fair-skin as a Thai on spotting me and my girlfriend will presume straight off that she is a 'proper' Thai girl. However if my soulmate were to be dark-skinned then i would just have to put with the fact! and i just dont care what people think!

Finally, most farang guys who marry Bar Girls are making a mistake and eventually the marriage will collapse. Me and my girlfreind are both educated, ive been here for 11 years, speak and read Thai fluently but we still have our mis-understandings. Our differences are still there because of the enormous cultural conditioning we were brought up with. Therefore most Bar Girls marriages will fail as the differences are just too great. He will get bored of her cause he wants a partner to chat with, perhaps about politics, feelings, world affairs etc... yet she does not even know where on a world map Thailand is and hasnt got the foggiest about the Second World War for example. Then, she will get bored of him as she wants a partner to chat about the TV soap operas, the neighbours, the price of durian etc...

I would be very interested to read any comments on what i have written.

[Podosinovik]

Having dated both Kon Isaan and Kon Neur, I personally find the character of the woman to be far more important than the skin color. Some people claimed that there is a difference between the 2 groups, but I don;t find anything distinctive. But I do feel that there seem to be some sort of subtle tension or "competition" between the 2 groups.

Any one experienced the same too?

[textarchive]

I noticed that too. I think there might be many reasons.

First, we have to consider what kind of people come to Thailand for the reason to have girlfriends here. Then we have to consider what kind of losers come over here for marrying one.

And finally, we will have to consider what kind of desperate situation a girl has to suffer, to seek out a member of the above-mentioned species.

Elaborate more on it later.

[UnduttRit]

In regards to paul_au his info. concerning the skin colours is pretty much right. There are lots of shades of brown in Thai such as 'dam daeng', 'dam leu-ang' etc..

Honey-skinned people are synonymous with Thai-Thais while Yellow skin is in reference to the Thai-Chinese. Such a colour is known to the Thais as 'shiny' thus more beautiful.

Us Farang too have our own sense of what beauty is and what is not, ie. blonde hair, which personally I dont find attarctive whatsoever. Therefore, it is notionless to criticise the Thais on thier sense of beauty.

[valiumcheepval]

I disagree that most of the "Thai wives in England are not dark"peoples skin colour fades when away from hot weather as soon as they go back to Thailand for a holiday they soon become darker.My wife is not from Issan she is from Samutprakarn.I also disagree that most of the thai women in England are from issan.I really can not understand why people are so bothered about skin colour!!!

[Caursedus]

Well my former Thai girlfriend was a fair skin educated type, who could speak perfect English, that's what I like. Her father was a dark skin Thai but her mother was of Chinese decent. She has two university's degree, is a drinker and very rowdy, well you would not expect an educated Thai lady to behave like that, but maybe because her father was in a Rock Band, her up bring was different.

[Casyimipist]

Agreed Seeker.

Personally I prefer dark skin, my ex-wife was black. I was a rare one where I live, most people here date other white people. But the way I view it is just that 'people'. We are all people, but in regards to personal tastes yes I prefer dark skin. Not exactly asian or even a foreigner just a darker complextion. Some men prefer brunettes, blondes etc. I am just more attracted to dark skin.

I am concerned for Paul_au though, I thought he was going through a healing process until I seen what he really said above. Paul_au you are a 'free-thinker', why do you feel compelled to stick within the bounds of which you are raised? I mean you say you date 'pure' white because that is what you are. That appears rascist at best, and at worst certainly not a 'free thinking' elitist as you have mentioned that is class of which you have come from. Quite disturbing, and I was starting to like you not only on an entertaining level.

[valiumcheepval]

I personally find women attractive whatever colour their skin is,if they are attractive to me then skin colour or tone is not important.

[ephennaCypota]

What I find sad is how society or whatever has encouraged the development of a sort of self-hate in some Thai people, particularly girls who are born with darker skin.
This false ideal that the whiter you are the more beautiful you are is reinforced by the media every single day. Look at all the popular stars on television and in the music industry in Thailand. What about the huge popularity of skin-whitening creams? Very sad.
Also, more distressing than sad is the superiority complex the these so called upper class light-skinned people seem to have.
In Japan they have the same "white is beautiful" mentality, they even have a word for it-Bihaku("Bi" from the character for beautiful +"haku" from the character for white) -however there is no perceived class difference based on skin colour.
It just makes me sad that some people walk around thinking they are better than others for no other reasons than skin colour.

[Knillagrarp]

I am a "loser" who married a Thai lady. Funny, being this happy, I hardly feel like a loser. My wife is a beautiful and caring woman, who is respected by me as my friend and partner in life. She is accepted by my family and I by hers. I would have to agree with khunlungphudhu, except I do not think that the positive experience generalizes to all Thai women any more than other generalizations apply to all farang women. Why some people just have to hate I cannot understand.

I, like Stacker, have always prefered dark-complected women. I grew up in a neighborhood dominated by Italian-Americans. I am also part Native-American and have always wanted to have children that are more dark-haired and dark-eyed. I cannot tolerate intolerance of people, simply because they are seeking happiness in this life. I guess bitterness, envy, spite, or whatever has to seep out and be directed at others. The only advice I can offer such individuals is that they focus on finding happiness of their own, instead of worrying about what other people are doing to find theirs.

[Caursedus]

Quote[/b] ]I get the impression that you, paul, prefer the materialistic and financial aspects of change with a preference for a woman who can be of less expense for you but still remain tractable and pleasing. Perhaps I am wrong, but this is the impression.

That is not correct, The old style of woman are not tractable and pleasing to me in anyway, how can I like a woman, that has an intention of sponging off me on a first date. she has just done some thing to make me dislike her.
I want a totally modern woman in every way, both financially and in attitude. It would be nice to be asked out on a date for a change instead of having to ask, that is not just financial. Woman need a whole life style change before I believe they respect men.

[Casyimipist]

You had me worried Paul_au, thank you for clearing it up.

I should have been more descriptive when I said yahoo.com. What I meant is compare these forums and the ThaiChatBox we have to the equals on yahoo.com. Consider how their forums are so often diluted and disturbed by men seeking this one thing from Thailand. If that doesn't make you sick, spend a day or so in the yahoo chat rooms, and see how well the farang men treat the Thai women they meet in there.

The way they act on Yahoo is the exact reputation they have laid down for us in many cities of Thailand. One of major reason's I prefer not being in the cities, out of pure shame.

[YmolafBp]

To answer the original question; the only thin about skin color I care about is that they aren't extremely pale (i.e. looks like a ghost). I also agree with paul about people who stay out in the sun or go to tanning salons to become a darker color isn't healthy so natural skin color is preferred. I seem to be attracted to face types and hair color more than anything else. I prefer darker hair (black hair and grey or green eyes is perfect ) and I have no interest in red hair (not sure why, best guess is that it detracts from the facial features ).

I have read a hypothesis put forward with some evidence supporting it that our bodies choices for what is attractive (through looks and pheromones) naturally tries to avoid too close of a genetic match to protect from inbreeding and genetic deformities. That might explain some of it away, though I think a large part of why foreigners pick the darker skinned women is culturally based as others have guessed.

Paul: Xenophobia is fear of other cultures. I don't think any of us here would be xenophobic as we're all open. However I do wonder if you aren't ethnocentric in your outlook. If you are, then you need to put down the 'White Man's Burden' of the past. It was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now and has only caused misery to countless people and culture.

[valiumcheepval]

Trust me,my wife and her family are Thai.