[LomodiorCon]

What khunlungphudhu says is true, I think! When you see someone well & and in a nice manner for long - whatever his/her colour the mind cannot see the person as an outsider on a one-to-one level. I know it happens with us with many a expats who become part of our daily lives and am sure its the same in Thailand. Often I would be talking to expats about other expats, as if he is not the affected by the generalisation.

Of course, in critical moments, and group discussions among locals one maybe forced to remember the difference.

[LoveTTatall]

IMO, If a person thinks negatively about the word then it has a negative affect. If one thinks positively about it ,the affect is positive .If you don't think about it , it won't even matter
I like to joke that I am a farlang only in Thailand .
The main thing to realize is your self view of yourself and not the label someone else gives you.???

[doctorzlo]

Thank you two for keeping it on topic. You both have valid points and both are on different pages.

SiamJai I think is talking about the negative concepts of the term farang. But Vision is talking about the literal sense the Thai's use the word.

Both are correct. Right?

[doctorzlo]

Quote[/b] (visionchaser45 @ Oct. 04 2005,02:49)]Do all these things and you will be a well-integrated farang. However, regardless of what people call you to your face, or how they treat you, you will always be farang.

I am proud of your restraint Vision.

Nice to see we are all getting along better (at least in this thread). But very true no matter. The difference and I think he pointed out is the key and that is simple.

If you show the proper respect for the culture, language, and people the word farang will be used in a respectful positive manner. That simple. What goes around comes around. You want respect and to be called by the name of your choice, then make sure it is evident you are putting as much as you can into 'being' Thai. If you could care less about the culture, they honestly like anyone else, could care less about the way they refer to you.

SiamJai mentioned that he only has heard the term by those who don't know him. The one's who know him, also know he has completely involved himself in the Thai way of life. Something that simply marrying a Thai woman does not afford to a person.

Ohh and Vision it was too PC I know, but I am finding it more and more humorous as I go along. I will continue to encourage him I would be very disappointed to see him go.

[spoddersedpn]

*cough* once again I'm 100% Thai and I still got called farang. Whats worse?

No problem!

[doctorzlo]

I for one like the outlook you have on it. I like the shirts shown in the image's by Mr. Brad too! Why not bring some humor into right? I will probably finally make a purchase from the farang depot. I know it was probably a year ago we were all shown this link, I guess I have a Thai set of priorities too.

As far as the last comment... I have volunteered to join staff, but I have no moderation rights, nor do I care to gain any. This raging battle between the two of you is making me and probably others quite crazy. It's not that I want to diffuse anything, I just want to read in a decent amount of peace.

The most frustrating part is I like both of you very much, and don't want it to appear I am taking a side on anything. It is a blessing to have such academics among us in these forums, both of you have given soooo much! You both have the greatest of debates, you each find the ultimate final stab from each opposing end of any given matter. The problem is you both also seem to take it personal, and it shows in the posts.

Seriously, I say it is truce time. I am not speaking as a moderator as I am not a moderator. I am asking as one regular to another, please.

[LomodiorCon]

In my opinion, people as a group can learn or unlearn only so much, so fast. So, we should see the world as two halves - one as a group of people and one as individuals. And we should build our expectations and desire to influence accordingly. One day, when human beings learn to say & share what we mean/feel/experience accurately & honestly & grow at the same speed, we would be 'there'. But then, we are still evolving as a species. No?

[RokeIdeadioke]

When I first started to hear 'farang!' I initially felt a little offended, but soon came to realize that I very much prefered it to the alternative 'hey you!', which, for some reason I really do dislike.
I long ago realized that no offence was intended by the use of 'farang', and I now feel that I have truly 'arrived', so to speak, recently having been out shopping with my nephew's children when a shopkeeper mentioned something about 'the farang' and the kids, with a look of horror on their faces, retorted, in no uncertain manner, ''mai chai farang! bhen khunlung!''
Made my day!

[doctorzlo]

Ohhh I remember that one too Mike! It was like everyone in the family had contempt and said farang in a very negative almost nasty tone. That was quite an awakening for alot of the readers.

[doctorzlo]

Proud of you! Made my day LOL

[textarchive]

Quote[/b] ]being married to a thai for many years and living in the U.S. most of the time

ummmm... so you are a farang, living in cozy farangland, complaining about Thais calling you farang. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but you have to show some real committment to be considered anything else. Wait, this has been said already. Never mind.I recall that during the last election, Fla voters didn't prove to be the brightest crayon in the box either - that explains this now!

Quote[/b] ]it's the way these words are said that counts. the intention, the feelings behind the words, the look in the eyes of the person talking to you.

I agree with you, Betti. 'Politically correct' words can hide ill-intent, while a less-refined choice of words can be said with good heart too.

As for the word 'farang', the label is pretty much inevitable for any white Westerner visiting Thailand, and its multiple meaning has been discussed above. What I'd like to add is that the choice of words is also affected by the attitude of the foreigner, in the case of Thai family, friends, colleagues anyway.

I've never been called 'Farang' by other than strangers. My Thai friends and colleagues call me by my real first name, or occasionally by my Thai nickname, like they do their Thai colleagues and friends. Even strangers at the Uni refrain from using that word. I guess it has to do a bit with education, overseas experience, and... attitude. If you avoid farang-like behavior and attitude, others won't be so quick to label you as one, it's that simple.

If you examine those who say they are called 'Farang' all the time, even by their friends/relatives, you are likely to discover that they themselves regard their status inherently unchangeable - an innate superiority complex, if you will. Such notion, of course, is reflected in their behavior towards locals. They may 'descend' to spend some brief time with their Thai family/friends, but then make a hasty retreat into the mighty ivory tower of Faranghood.

Thais are well-known for their inclusiveness. It's the Farang themselves who build the walls and then complain, go figure. But this wall can be removed, with a little effort, brick-by brick. Here are some tips:

1. Live here. (Two-week shortie incursions don't count, duh!)
2. Live here - the Thai way. (gated moo-bans, condos and all-falang isaan villages are not the best way to include Thais in your everday life, unless you count the service staff and bought wives, respectively.)
3. Know the Thai ways of doing things (or make an effort to learn them).
4. A few Thai words go a long way...
5. Most important: integrate, don't separate (duh, again).

These few pointers are just for start, and the som-tam seller on the street will still call you 'farang'... but you will see some 'minor' changes in your life: your spouse will start calling you on your first name, instead of saying "I love you, farang"; and your friends won't say "look, the farang kee nieo, here he comes again!"

As for being the "local anomaly"... I will think it's cool, when being the village idiot -another local anomaly- is considered cool. Until then, I will rely on my skills and contributions to have me stand out, not my looks and behavior, thank you very much.

[textarchive]

Quote[/b] ]Do all these things and you will be a well-integrated farang. However, regardless of what people call you to your face, or how they treat you, you will always be farang.

You know, there was once a rooster who assumed that flying is impossible. The poor thing lived all his life in a barn, and never saw the eagles soaring high above.

What you assume of others, mirrors only what your life looks like. So if you are absolutely sure that you are stuck in the ivory tower of Faranghood for an eternity, you just defined your life, and nothing else. I feel sorry for you.

If you think something is impossible, at least don't bother others who are doing it - that's not too difficult, hmmm?

Quote[/b] ]I will continue to encourage him I would be very disappointed to see him go.

Oh, I think we don't have to worry about that; over these years, our Paul proved to be very sturdy and persistent. He took much verbal abuse and tease by now, and is still standing, like an old tree in the thunderstorm.

[Knillagrarp]

I am not so concerned with whether people will call me farang; after all, that's what I am. It is more important for me to be farang jai dii. Whether I am sitting with my son and his friend playing Gameboy while the buffalo graze, or watching my grandson play with a new toy, or watching my daughters laugh and exchange gossip together, or enjoying a feast and dancing with my family, friends, and neighbors , or strolling through the local market with my wife and other family members, or watching the local kids play a good game of takraw, the real important thing is that we are all enjoying life and our mutual experience. I know that my family thinks the world of me and most of the other locals think I am a pretty good person, even if I am farang. The feeling is mutual to be sure.

BTW- iGotNoTime, you are doing a very good job as a moderator. Your skillful efforts at diffusing conflict make you more Thai-like than the average farang. Most Thais would rather avoid direct conflict than provoke it. Keep up the good work.

[Nopayof]

If u look the word "Farangs" positive is positive.
We can change our attitude by learning.

[textarchive]

Quote[/b] ]SiamJai I think is talking about the negative concepts of the term farang. But Vision is talking about the literal sense the Thai's use the word.

That about sums it up, I think. If we take the literal sense of the word, then of course Visionchaser is right; a western-born white-skinned man will always be regarded as Farang, there is nothing to do about that.

The root of our difference starts with the fact that in my life, I ceased to be viewed as Farang by the people for whom I mean more than a birthplace and skin color. Our similarities transcend such superficial values. This I know for fact, because it is my life, and no-one has the basis to challenge it, unless they happen to live it.

Were this my first debate with Visionchaser, I'd be surprised by his insistence to challenge me on an insider aspect of my life, and by his audacity to repeatedly label my descriptions as 'delusions'. After all, it's commonly accepted that we know our own lives the best.

Just think about it; you talk about your relationship with your family and friends. Then your next-door neighbor butts in and corrects you on your description, while also labeling it as delusionary. Would you accept that? Of course not. This is even more so when the 'neighbor' lives on the other side of the globe, cultures apart. It's just nonsense.

But I take it with patience, knowing the volatility of previous situations. A fight takes at least two people, and I won't be one.

[Caursedus]

Congratulations iGotNoTime for becoming a regular in less than a month, it took me about 3 months.

[ambientambien]

Quote[/b] (rcalaimo @ Sep. 30 2005,21:02)]IMO, If a person thinks negatively about the word then it has a negative affect. If one thinks positively about it ,the affect is positive .If you don't think about it , it won't even matter
I like to joke that I am a farlang only in Thailand .
The main thing to realize is your self view of yourself and not the label someone else gives you.???

I agree with that. I never made a point of it.
As many know in this forum, when you walking in Thailand everytime you hear this word "farang". I am only smiling!

[Knillagrarp]

Quote[/b] ]Someday I hope to have the number of posts that you have, all with the same amount of thought put into the writings.

ROTFLOL A little too PC, even for someone who has joined the volunteer staff.

[DownloadADOBEsoftware]

i call non thai people farang its not bad at all it only meen non thai right people that all my mum tell me it meen non thai it not meen foriener

[Knillagrarp]

Quote[/b] ]I feel sorry for you.

Thank you for your concern. It is very touching. However, the fact that a farang will never be considered Thai by Thai people is not something I made up to convince myself that I must always remain different. If you want to be honest with yourself, ask any Thai person if, by doing the things you suggest, a farang will ever be considered Thai. You will get the same answer...NO. An analogous scenario would be a white person in America who listens to rap, wears Fubu, eats soul food, surrounds humself with African-American friends, and speaks ebonics. He will still NEVER be African-American. People may find him amusing though. Regardless, you are welcome to your delusion. Whatever gets you through the day and makes you feel better about yourself is what is important. Choke dii na.