[DownloadMan]

And I will copy some of em, but I will have to type them myself and I not a very fast typist.
But I did find this too and it about the way I feel too.

ONE HIGHWAY DEATH PER DAY - OK

A small northeastern Thai provice was showcased in July '03 as having significantly lowered their road death rate - down to an average of just one per day. Is one death per day commendable?

Every Songkran, as deaths and injuries pile up, there is always debate about how to improve the situation. Fatalities happen every day on Thai roads, it's just that the increased drunkenness and mayhem of Songkran fuels public concern. This past holiday season was another record setter and it was proposed that a government commission be appointed to try to lessen the problem. I think it was that same commission that commemorated the outlying province for bringing their death toll down to a fathomable one--per-day average.

I'd like to do what I could in an advisory capacity to help lessen bad driving habits in Thailand. However, I doubt the esteemed commission would want a person like me on their committee. My unflattering descriptions of Thai driving habits would infuse too much reality into the debate. Furthermore, my suggestions for improvements would likely be scoffed at as too outlandish. Such things as (1) driving on the correct side of the road, (2) tangible penalties for driving while drunk, and (3) being courteous to other drivers and pedestrians. Whether I'd agree to cops handing out gold chain rewards for drivers honoring the speed limit is in doubt.

True story: On a busy 2-lane road, six monks in robes and two elder women were stuck standing on the middle line, having crossed one lane and waiting uncomfortably to cross the other. Not one of a whole stream of slow moving vehicles stopped to allow the group to pass. Granted, common courtesy can't be legislated, but perhaps it can improve by example and gentle persuasion.

[sessoorale]

I've been driving in Thailand for about 2 years now....
I don't think the problem is "driving skill".... I'll say most Thai can drive very well.... I think its more like the lack of "traffic rule knowledge"...
You'll understand what I mean when you see how Thai use the "Roundabouts". They can go from right to all the way left in split seconds to get to their exit.
In Singapore, one has to go through Basic theory and then Advance theory before being even allow to go on public road (for practises). And in Thailand? We all know how it works....
I had similar experiences as FiP.... followings are my most hated drivers in Thailand:
1) Bus which stop in middle of the road allowing passengers to alight.
2) crazy taxi drivers.
3) talking on mobile and still driving on right lane (fast lane).
4) Truck drivers driving at 60km/hr who insist on overtaking a fellow 50km/hr truck on a 2 lane road.
5) motorcycles riding towards you at road shoulder....

No offense, but I see people who had no complaints of Thai drivers probably spend most of their time driving in up-country or something where there're less cars.... traffic hazard are probably occasional cows or dogs blocking the road?

[DownloadMan]

When you go to visit your family, do you consider yourself a tourist? Also, I never considered an 8 hour bus ride a short trip, especially when it's immediately after a 24 hour plane ride. BTW Last time I checked Isaan was in Thailand. How is it you distinguish between Isaan and "Thai" drivers?

The only problem I ever had with a driver was the last time we left Kalasin the driver rushed us onto the bus before we could say proper goodbyes to our family. He was rather rude and abrupt, without any consideration whatsoever. However, when I am with my wife I can't say anything to anyone. She hates it when I fight with people over things, so I just lay back and think good thoughts.

Well I just go by what the folks tell me, and they say that the folks around SARIN are Khmer people and they don't consider them as real Thai, 555 always say something about em eating dogs.
And there is no way that you can convince a Thai over here that the ISSAN area was settled many years before the rest of Thailand was.

And I would figure that someone that comes here for a short while with a plane ticket and plans to go back to whereever they came from would be a tourist. What did your visa say??

And yes it was not very nice of the driver to rush you on the bus, he pobly thought that you had time before he got ready to leave to have said your goodbys. Some folks just do not think..

[sessoorale]

Well I just go by what the folks tell me, and they say that the folks around SARIN are Khmer people and they don't consider them as real Thai, 555 always say something about em eating dogs.
And there is no way that you can convince a Thai over here that the ISSAN area was settled many years before the rest of Thailand was.

Its funny when I was in Chiang Mai and I had to hire a driver to drive me to Lamphun and he was complaining to me about how Lamphun drivers like to drive slowly on the right lane... sometimes chatting on the mobile.... no considerations at all he told me.
I think inside... isn't this how most of the Thai drivers are?

[Nabeqiv]

The problem with the short trips, to and from Bangkok, is that they don't start making more money until they complete one leg and start the return.
The more legs they complete in a day, the more money they make.
See the incentive?

I am afraid that just about any van or bus you find on these trips will have a similar driver.
In my many trips to Ayutthaya, I can't remember one that I didn't kiss the ground when we reached our destination!

[DownloadMan]

OH YEA, just on the news about a bus running off the road and flipping over on the BKK to Chiang Mai run at NakonSawan and it hurt a bunch of folks, don't know how many dead or if they knew who was driving it, usually if the driver ain't hurt bad, he runs away and they never know who was driving.

Keep ya posted if I hear anymore.

[DownloadMan]

As Dan said, ain't gonna do no good to tell him to slow down, he feels that you are talking to the worlds best driver so it will do no good and maybe only make matters worse.
But it is hard to just get off when on a long run and bus' only leave the station every few hours, and the next one might be worse,,I hire a van for the long runs anymore and I am the employer so if I tell him to slow down, he will do it.

[DownloadMan]

The only reason that there are not a lot more wrecks and deaths is because people run off on the shoulder when confronted with a passing car in their lane and hit the shoulder rather that the oncoming car.
Motorcycles have no right of way according to Thai drivers and therefore more deaths, but they mostly run the shoulders anyway and if a car is going faster than the motorcycle they come up along side and force you over onto the shoulder or down under the pickup, it makes no diff to the driver, today I was forced off at 130 KPH this side of Phetchabun.
There have been 6 people killed within 1/4 KM of my house up on the hyway because people were making an illegal right turn thru a safety zone in front of a police box in the last year and 2 big steel light standards knocked down because of people stopping in the traffic lane to make that same turn right where the divider ends and also the 2 lanes merge into one., But they don't enforce safety zones at that box. In one of em 3 people on a MC slowed to make the illegal turn and a pickup ran up on em and drug em 200 meters up the road under his pickup, Yes they were all dead.
So much for the 2004 letter of law from Toxin

[sessoorale]

OH YEA, just on the news about a bus running off the road and flipping over on the BKK to Chiang Mai run at NakonSawan and it hurt a bunch of folks, don't know how many dead or if they knew who was driving it, usually if the driver ain't hurt bad, he runs away and they never know who was driving.

yes, this is very common news... happens all the time...
Which also reminds me of this joke:
If I want to die,
I want to die like my uncle...
peacefully in his sleep...
unlike his passengers....
screaming and yelling behind the passenger seat of his car....



Goodnight dudes...

[boltondd]

I don't know about this.. how about you ask your Thai wife what she think of Thai traffic as compared to your country and let us know what she says?

My Thai gf even she herself whine about the traffic all the time.... But maybe its because she's typical "jai ron" Thai.....

A little awkward as I live in the back of beyond and there is no traffic to speak of. She says "In Murphy???

[kylsq0Ln]

Maybe ISSAN drivers are better than Thai drivers,,or maybe you just are not the observant type.

Thanks! Now I know why I don't have a problem with Thai drivers...

But seriously, I didn't see anything nearly as bad as what you've described on the roads (up to Singburi and down to Pattaya - I can't vouch for the whole country...). A little crazy, perhaps, but nothing as suicidal as your experiences. Maybe I'm just lucky

[boltondd]

The more I read this thread the more I become convinced that the posts are made by Sunday drivers. The only time I have ever been bothered sitting in a vehicle in Thailand, is the taxi from the airport. Once upon the toll road, most of them seem intent on dropping the engine out of the taxi (due to high speed and engine strain).

The van and bus drivers have always seemed to be careful and knowledgeable. Remember one who seemd to know every shortcut in Bangkok when going from hotel to hotel picking up passengers avoiding the early morning traffic.

Perhaps it depends on the tour operators, the cheaper you go, the less careful drivers they employ!

[ResuNezily]

G'Day,
On a recent trip to LoS my Thai hosts arranged and kindly paid for my minibus fare from Nakhon Phatom to Khrung Thep. As soon as we got out onto the highway I knew it was a BIG mistake because the driver was an insane lunatic. He tail-gated other cars at 120 km/hr and pulled out to pass when there was oncoming traffic. It seemed he was making a lightning decision as to the social status of the oncoming vehicle and if he considered he was "suung khwaa" the other driver he would pull out in a head-on confrontation that forced the other vehicle off the road. My question is: should I have stopped him and berated him in front of the other passengers? (serious loss of face) or demanded to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere? What I actually did was nothing, but sit with my eyes tightly closed for a white knuckle ride I will never forget. What would you guys have done in that situation?

chai yen yen,

i will do nothing and enjoy the ride,.....don't tell me you didn't since you still came out in one piece..... and......

[DownloadMan]

Yes, I am safe at that speed, and a pickup got alongside me and forced me off the road, so he was driving faster than me,But he still couldn't really pass me as I was following a car, he just didn't want me ahead of him and being on a scoot, I had no right to be there. and when I worked in the states I always rode a motorcycle, sometimes my only transport, and averaged once in a 2 year period 62K per year. Been riding one since 1947..

But who would flame you as a tourist as you seem to know thai drivers and never said that they drive alright and are good drivers.And you are correct,, Defensive driving is the only way to live very long in this country if you are going to drive here.
In fact you say the exact same thing I have said for years, they have no consideration for anyone else, and no one has ever taught them to drive, they do have the right laws tho, but no,none law enforcement on any hiways in Thailand, and you do not need to know the laws if ya got a few baht.so drivers license really mean nothing as far as knowing goes.

They are fairly nice people, until they get behind the wheel and get the engine running, then it is all over.
But without enforcement, even if they do know the laws, with the Thai mentality it will never change. if you got a Honda Civic and they got a 4X4 Toyota then they are better than you so you gotta give right of way and they never see you, but they do see me cause I got big hands and a really LONG finger and they sure get shakey when ya give em the ol Hawaiian Peace sign.

[kylsq0Ln]

FiP,

I've said before that it is not that I don't believe you. I said that I was surprised not to see anything particularly bad when I was in Thailand. I wasn't there long, so I don't draw any firm conclusions from it.

It's intereting that Peterg, who does seem to have spent a bit of time in Thailand, has such a different impression than you.

But I learned a long time ago that people can have very different experiences in what is apparently the same place. Some people think LA is just freeways, Disneyland, and MacDonalds. My first impressions of LA was of quiet suburbia in Santa Monica. If I'd been in East LA I would have had a different experience...

[WertyNtont]

...go short trips as tourists... When you go to visit your family, do you consider yourself a tourist? Also, I never considered an 8 hour bus ride a short trip, especially when it's immediately after a 24 hour plane ride. BTW Last time I checked Isaan was in Thailand. How is it you distinguish between Isaan and "Thai" drivers?

The only problem I ever had with a driver was the last time we left Kalasin the driver rushed us onto the bus before we could say proper goodbyes to our family. He was rather rude and abrupt, without any consideration whatsoever. However, when I am with my wife I can't say anything to anyone. She hates it when I fight with people over things, so I just lay back and think good thoughts.

[Caursedus]

Well I once had a night mare ride in a Taxi from the Seri Center to Samrong, high speed driving heavy breaking, ducking and weaving and no safety belt in the back seat, I had to tell the Taxi driver to slow down.

[DownloadMan]

wrong again, many times have I been ran off the road by a bus heading right at me in my traffic lane in my car and on my motorcycle, both by VIP bus' and also short haul bus between Lom Sak and Phetchabun.
You have no choice except get on or not when at the bus terminals and which ever tour co. bus is loading for your destination.
Tour co. bus' run the regular routes and do not just do TOURS as is known to farangs. PETCH TOURS is one of the companys that service our area from BKK to Lom Sak. and the one that is used by my meat supplier that drops off my order at Nongua police box on his way to Lom Sak.
Bus drivers are your most dangerous drivers as a group because a bus will run faster than a truck, more throttle response and be more apt to be passing when he shouldn't. While truck drivers are more apt to cut you off when passing on 3 lane roads in the uphill sections and run you over into oncoming traffic and cut you off when passing on divided sections and run you up on the dividers if they see they are nearing the end of the dividers.

[DownloadMan]

Thanks! Now I know why I don't have a problem with Thai drivers...

But seriously, I didn't see anything nearly as bad as what you've described on the roads (up to Singburi and down to Pattaya - I can't vouch for the whole country...). A little crazy, perhaps, but nothing as suicidal as your experiences. Maybe I'm just lucky

And VC said
[QUOTE]We take the bus from Mo Chit to Kalasin everytime we visit and I have never had a problem as far as concerns with driver safety. I guess some folks are just prone to bad luck. 555.
QUOTE]

But either one of you have never been on a long trip then as you have only been on good hyways and not far from the city.
Try a trip from Khon Kaen to Lom Sak to Chiang Mai,,Chiang Rai or Lom Sak to Loei and on to Nong Khai, where you are on narrow 2 lane hyways thru the mountains and steep grades, go around the country as a tourist and then tell me what you think,,some drive the way as was described by the first poster even on super hyways.

After a few of those trips even an atheist such I as starts to wonder about GOD.

I also have made some enjoyable road trips with fine courteous drivers, but they have been few and far between, But you still have the other drivers to keep things from getting boring..

But then I lived here for a few years while you both are not immigrants and come with a place in mind and go short trips as tourists, that makes a difference.:thank ya:

[MeatteCen]

Bus speeds really vary between different drivers. If you think the driver is unsafe, get off! Wait 5 minutes and take the next one.

Minibus drivers are not about to change their driving style because one person doesn't like it. Even if you ask politely, you would be very lucky to get the driver to drive any slower.