[SoorgoBardy]

Walking along the road I came upon a young man in a Thai Scouting uniform. Having been a scout for most of my youth, I stopped when he approched me. He showed me a book with donation amounts people had given him. They looked like huge amounts and this pricked my suspicion. I then looked over his uniform and his badges didn't look right. I noticed he had a cub badge and a scout emblem and sea scout badge as well. This guy had been around. I then dismissed him saying that he almost had me. He was good.....Ten points for trying I guess.

[12Cickprior]

I was wondering if any one who has been to Thailand, had experiences with professional beggars in Thailand.
There have been many occasions, when a professional beggar has come up to me in an out door eatery in Bangkok and Paknam, but some beggars, take the art of begging to even more professional heights.
I remember one incidence, when I was travelling in a bus from Samrong Samut Prakan, into Bangkok and as I was looking out the window at the footpath, there was a beggar with out any arms and no lower legs to be seen, a sign in front of him and a tin in his mouth to put money into, well as I was sitting high up in the bus, I could see behind the beggar, and could see the fact this beggar had arms and feet hidden in his shirt behind his back, that the public walking along the foot path, could not see.
As I was sitting back one day watching a professional beggar going about plying her trade, I was realizing, some of these beggars make more money doing this than, what they would earn in a basic job.
So what experience's have you had with the professional beggar's in the past and present, Are there still many professional beggars left since they removed them off the streets, for the October 2003, APEC summit in Bangkok, is this profession starting to make a come back.

I remember one incidence, when I was travelling in a bus from Samrong Samut Prakan, into Bangkok and as I was looking out the window at the footpath, there was a beggar with out any arms and no lower legs to be seen, a sign in front of him and a tin in his mouth to put money into, well as I was sitting high up in the bus, I could see behind the beggar, and could see the fact this beggar had arms and feet hidden in his shirt behind his back, that the public walking along the foot path, could not see.

Lol..... At the local shopping mall here in Suphanburi i bought a few episodes on VCD format of the quack-wack Thai TV Police Series 'Khadee Daet'. Gotta few pretty hilarious re-enactments of the police doing-over such ........not-so-crippled beggars!

The 'Khon Chat Leuk' newspaper (The Nation's Thai language daily) done some undercover work just a few months back and wrote up a good scoop article (ought to have translated it for a blog at thai-blogs!).

It was concerning a fake beggar gang around the Bang-na Trat Road area ,not so far actually, from Samut Prakarn. Most of their fake beggars were young women, who were given fake babies by the gang. They'd go to the intersection at Bang-na/Sukhumvit Road and plead for money, from motorists, for the bus fare back home in Isarn!

Next time i come across such news again in the Thai newspapers, i'll translate it into English.

By the way, should any of the readers wish for copies of 'Khadee Daet' (funny...but true-life petty criminal re-enactments) let me know!

[DownloadMan]

I guess there might be a beggar here in town, but I have never seen one and if you stay away from tourist areas, you will probably not see any either.

But one time over in Vientaine while getting a visa reissue and old lady came up to my wife and I where we were setting waiting and offered us some tooth picks she had in bundles that were split bamboo, she was a nice old lady and so we gave her 100 baht and she handed my wife a bundle of the things, my wife tried to refuse and the old lady just insisted that she take them, she didn't want us to think she was a beggar and it appeared to hurt her feelings so I took them and she gave me a big smile and walked away.

But now Paul will call me a fool for paying for them when I could have cheated the old lady.

[DownloadMan]

They want cash money.
and as to the social services, they do more harm than good, take children from their patents and place them in foster homes that are only in it for the money and usually give the children less care that they were receiving.

I do not believe that the govt has any business in family affairs, been there, done that. I over heard a kid telling another that if they weren't happy with what their parents were doing, just go to child services and tell them that they were abused at home and they would be put in a foster home.

Most in CS. have no children and have never been married, but do have a sheepskin that says they got a degree in psychology and that is enough to rule someones life. and they have not lived in the home and kinda hard to tell just from an interview.
If a child seems undernourished or is beat up then there should be an investigation to see what is going on but to just walk in and take someones children is foolish.

Besides that, there are plenty of laws in Thailand that they will not enforce and if there is not already a law, then it will do no good to make another one.

And I am not just talking to hear myself, I have been in what we are talking about and also have friends in the CS in California, never married and no kids but has a degree and has a lot of power over other peoples lives.
There are children being abused to the point of death in homes where they were placed just the same as is happening in their own homes,,so where is the line??

I give directly to the children and not to some agency where someone is making a living off the donations, and if they do not have a large savings or a job, then they are living off the donations, and maybe adding daily to the savings.

I know that I sound cynical, but have seen what happens....

[!!Aaroncheg]

"Even when the father is an alcoholic who beats his kids and the mother is an addicted irresponsible gambler - the Thais still prefer to turn a blind eye, and that is everyone and not just the police. Even the teachers can't be bothered to call up the authorities in charge after a grade 5 kid has been illegally taken out of school by a parent. I think this is one of the negative things about Thais."


I suspected that's the way it is.... and it surely needs a change in the way of thinking. maybe that change needs to be forced. well I know the police is not very effective..... but maybe a law could help. the situation was pretty much the same back home regarding abused children etc, but then a law was drawn up overnight obliging teachers to report any suspected cases of crime, abuse, whatever suspicious to the authorities (there are child protection officials who are not connected to the police in any way, they are more like a kind of social service), and despite the fact that the police is still not very effective at all, they do take crimes against children very seriously. teachers (and also doctors, social workers and some other community workers) are also held responsible if they fail to report something suspicious. I know Thais really hate to interfere with others' business, but an attempt should be made and some things need to be changed if Thailand wants to develop further.


as for beggars..... if I see a woman with a small child, and I have some food with me, an orange or some snacks, I give that to the child. I feel sorry for all who have to make a living like this, but I don't want to sponsor gangs. but it's hard to tell who is who. a good way to deal with my bad conscience is to sign up for a "sponsor a child" program and then I have a better chance of making sure where my money goes. I have recently found the website of an orphanage here in Chiang Mai and it looks like a good place to support, I mean, it's not some kind of huge organisation that takes your donations and finances the running costs of its offices and plane tickets for an international staff using the money etc. I'm planning on visiting and maybe I'll end up volunteering, who knows.

[LomodiorCon]

I think I came across a very innovative old man : When I was walking by, suddenly a man popped out of the telephone booth, with the phone still in his hand like he was talking... exclaiming - "Excuse me, do you have change on you!" And by reflex I gave him the coin I had. And walked on since it was too little to wait for him to finish the call and return. But then... I wondered... and watched... he did it again with another person!

[LomodiorCon]

What Pallin said is fantastic and I truly subscribe with the exact thoughts! I really think we should decide our actions by what we want to be and not what others 'could' be. Of course, at times things will be starkly wrong, but in other cases so be it.

[!!Aaroncheg]

what really upsets me that the police don't seem to be doing anything to stop child beggars. the authorities should make sure all kids have a chance to attend school and their parents / relatives / crime gangs don't send them to the streets to beg.

[!!Aaroncheg]

I didn't mean anything like kids should be taken away from their families, that does more damage than anything else. I know that I'm daydreaming, but I think it is to some extent the responsibility of the country and the authorities to help families who cannot take care of their children for some reason. there should be regular child care allowance for all poor families, an amount that is enough to keep kids at school for at least 6 years. otherwise the cycle of poverty will just go on and on and on and it costs more in the long run. and if any abuse is suspected, or there is a crisis in the family, help should be available to fix the situation or bridge the critical period. it is a crime to let a child down and turn your head the other way when they are beaten up or neglected or not taken care of. but, again, I know it's only wishful thinking. I saw an unspeakable amount of child abuse in Taiwan, the emotional kind of abuse that reduces people to an empty shell by the age of 14 or 16, it's routine, it's their way of life, it's what keeps the Chinese economic miracle going, but I can never forget those looks in kids' eyes; Thailand takes so much pride in being sensitive and caring about people, and having a soul, and rightly so, it should just stretch an extra few metres further, I don't see it as a complete reversal of the Thai ways or alien to these people here. if only laws were respected more and the police were stronger....

[12Cickprior]

what really upsets me that the police don't seem to be doing anything to stop child beggars. the authorities should make sure all kids have a chance to attend school and their parents / relatives / crime gangs don't send them to the streets to beg.

The Thais are very reluctant to get involved with the private affairs of others. This is seen clearly in regards to the police clamping down on child beggars etc.... Even though, it is now illegal to send ones kid out to the streets to beg.

Even when the father is an alcoholic who beats his kids and the mother is an addicted irresponsible gambler - the Thais still prefer to turn a blind eye, and that is everyone and not just the police. Even the teachers can't be bothered to call up the authorities in charge after a grade 5 kid has been illegally taken out of school by a parent. I think this is one of the negative things about Thais.

Behind my school there is one single parent young mother who is a glue-sniffer, she's not shy of the matter and i often see her with her bag of glue tied to her waste absolutely....smashed. Ten minutes later, i see her on her bicycle with her 3 year-old kid clinging on for life's sake! I would love the authorities to clamp down, but when i mentioned her to a couple of the local Thais, they just didn't won't me to get involved.

In Bangkok, the police and the metropolitan police try to clamp down on the fake begging syndicates (most of the beggars are illegal Cambodians) but there is little they can do. "Shoooo them away and five minutes later they are back" Of course, the police could quite simply arrest them all for visa violations but that would be unfair on the poor foreigners (most get paid approx. 100 baht a day to beg, including free accomodation and food)

The police have managed to arrest some of the leaders, but it isn't easy (some too, may be paying kickbacks to some high ranking cop)

[JoesBro]

I try to take each situation as it happens. I've not been in that particular situation, so I'm not sure what I would do.

I was up in Chiang Rai once at one of the tea plantations on Doi Tung. A mother and her children? came up to me to try and sell me some jewelry. I bought a bracelet because I liked it and had enough money to be generous. I then tried to get in our mini van (me and my thai family -- 8 people). Once I bought the one bracelet they were swarming me and making it nearly impossible for me to get to the van. My Thai father came over and shoooed them away. Once in the van they pounded the windows and tried very sad face to get me to buy more bracelets. I just smiled at them and waved. I bought one, and that's all I was prepared to do.

Were these hill tribe people? Akha? Akha women sell with their children around them and if you buy from one, others suddenly appear and really harass you.Chiang Mai night market is bad for this.
I do give money to those beggars obviously disabled, blind musicians and amputees etc. and who do not try to pressure me into giving.

[12Cickprior]

What about the women with very young children who I have seen hanging around Nana/Asog Skytrain stations or on the bridges across Sukhumvit road in that area? Are they amateur or professional?

Sorry Peter, but the those areas you mentioned are havens for the fake beggar gangs. Other areas are MBK, Siam Square, Victory Monument etc....

Those babies you see in the arms the supposed mother are more likely than not..... just a ploy to have the sympathetic passer-by spare some free change. Not the real mother at all. One of the reports i wrote earlier about: The Kom Chat Leuk newspaper say the going rate to 'rent a baby' from a slum family was around 100 baht a day.

There may be the odd genuine beggar who sits on such footbridges, but not for long.....or the gangs will be around quick expecting some protection money. If not, they too, would have to be part of the syndicate.....or disappear.

[RCQDnMp5]

Pailin, I think that is a very nice way of thinking. Sometimes I do wish I woudn't have those second thoughts!
But what do you do when you (for example) are surrounded by a growing crowd of begging boys in rags (from a temple). Let's say you'd be willing to spend about 100baht (or any given value)... would you give it to one of them? or share it between them? And how about those joining the growing crowd...? And how about those following you because they want even more?

I don't mean to offend you, I'd just like to hear your opinion.

-
Is life meant to be fair??

[usaneisfiecup]

A friend of mine once gave me advice that I take very much to heart.

I can't spend my time trying to decide who is a fake beggar and who is in genuine need of money. All I can do is live a generous life. When I have extra, I share. When I don't have extra, I don't. It's not up to me to do wrong, I'll aim for doing good. If the person who receives my generosity does the wrong, that is for them to live with.

I'm not naive about my generosity, but I refuse to spend negative energy on assuming everyone a suspect.

[DownloadMan]

It should be the community that prevents child abuse, not some govt agency, when I was young thats the way it was,,then things started to change and the invented WELFARE, then the parents that should not have had children in the first place, got a check from the govt to buy booze and drugs.
Then the made up an authority called CHILD SERVICES and hired a bunch more parasites to live off govt money, checked on family's and if they didn't think the kids were doing OK then took them, and invented a thing called FOSTER CARE and more govt money to people that shouldn't have had kids.

Welfare is no good, it makes parasites of the people, Child Services is no good because the only thing they do is take children from their parents for made up reasons and show great power over the populations, just like any govt agency that is given some power they always seem to get more.
The main requirement to becoming an employee of CS is a degree in psychology so you can listen to someone that is trying to do their best, Take what they say and turn it around and make them a bad person by your psychotherapeutic ideas and put their kids in Foster care,, Now you can feel good about yourself because you took their kids.

The world situation is no ones business but the people that have been going thru the same things almost yearly since time began,, Have a bunch of kids that you can not feed or support, watch them starve to death and have some more, or be continually pregnant so you keep the supply of kids to starve to death at high enough numbers so you can be supported by the working people of the world.
I know it is terrible, but people need to find a way to support their numbers and it will never happen as long as someone comes to their aid and makes it possible to continue their careless, thoughtless ways.
What happens in country's that are doing OK and have a [plan for their survival?? say like America and their wild game programs,,when the herds get to large for an area to support and the animals will starve if they keep increasing in number, the call for special hunts and the animal populations are brought down in numbers until their habitat can support them again,,everyone wants food and aid to country's that are in the same situation as the animals get to in America,,and it is the higher power [Mother nature]that is calling for the reductions in numbers instead of the Game Commission.

[DownloadMan]

for me to pursue, My wife tells me that Handlers bring smuggled Viet's, Laos, and Thai kids to our Tamarind festival here to beg, and that they work all year in the city's, I have never seen this as I don't go the festivals and stay away from city's as much as I can, But you that know me know that I am not really enthused with Thai police and their practice of law enforcement, if no chance for graft then the shy away from doing anything. And the fearless leader is also a policeman and look what he has done for the Thai people and for his own bank acct. in the years he has been in control.

[TritteTouff]

I was wondering if any one who has been to Thailand, had experiences with professional beggars in Thailand.
There have been many occasions, when a professional beggar has come up to me in an out door eatery in Bangkok and Paknam, but some beggars, take the art of begging to even more professional heights.
I remember one incidence, when I was travelling in a bus from Samrong Samut Prakan, into Bangkok and as I was looking out the window at the footpath, there was a beggar with out any arms and no lower legs to be seen, a sign in front of him and a tin in his mouth to put money into, well as I was sitting high up in the bus, I could see behind the beggar, and could see the fact this beggar had arms and feet hidden in his shirt behind his back, that the public walking along the foot path, could not see.
As I was sitting back one day watching a professional beggar going about plying her trade, I was realizing, some of these beggars make more money doing this than, what they would earn in a basic job.
So what experience's have you had with the professional beggar's in the past and present, Are there still many professional beggars left since they removed them off the streets, for the October 2003, APEC summit in Bangkok, is this profession starting to make a come back.

[voodoosdv]

What are some good phrases for politely but firmly telling beggars they won't be getting any money from you? Here in Oz the stock phrase is "sorry mate haven't got any change on me" but that might not translate to Thai.

[logpogingg]

What about the women with very young children who I have seen hanging around Nana/Asog Skytrain stations or on the bridges across Sukhumvit road in that area? Are they amateur or professional?

[RCQDnMp5]

Sometimes when we went out for eating dinner (never at lunch though), child beggars often came to our table. They had a quite simple but nevertheless effective way of begging: they would simply stand there until you gave them something just so they would go away again. Some of them even banged their fists on somebody's (only men's) backs - not very strongly, but still... Who wouldn't give them something? Even if its just to stop them.

And in when we went for a visa run to Burma there were little temple boys running after us the whole time, begging silently with their hands in a receiving gesture. As soon as you give one of them something, suddenly more and more cute little temple boys appeared ...seemingly out of nowhere! The only way to get out of this group is to pretend you want to touch them... they are not allowed!
But still I doubt they are real temple boys. There are way too many of them. And I thought temples usually get enough food and money during the usual morning rounds of the monks and novices. No?
Does anybody know more about these "temple boys" in Burma?


edit: sorry, my signature doesn't really apply to this post. Seems a bit out of place...