[layevymed]

Yeah, I don't stand for the national anthem. What business is it of anybody else? I mean why should it bother anybody? I don't care if sombody doesn't stand for any anthem. When I go see the movie I don't stand for the king either. And people get all upset. I have had people in a movie theater throw ice cubes at me because I didn't stand for the king. When I am with my thai girlfriend she also won't stand. She doesn't mind. It is her business and my business and why should people care? I mean if you really look at the role of monachy and nation or relegionit is all about keeping the status quo. They need to maintian the order. That is maintian the rich staying rich and the poor staying poor.

[Atmotteenrift]

Quote[/b] (Som Tam @ July 08 2005,15:36)]When I go see the movie I don't stand for the king either. And people get all upset. I have had people in a movie theater throw ice cubes at me because I didn't stand for the king. When I am with my thai girlfriend she also won't stand. She doesn't mind. It is her business and my business and why should people care?

It is call "respect"... when i go to ur house, i take off my shoes because I "respect" ur "custom"... I will also greet ur parents and say "hello" because it is basic manner.....

If i don't wanna take off my shoes, i won't go into ur house...

Thus, if u don't wanna stand for the Thai King, don't go to the movies in Thailand...

OR.... don't come Thailand at all.....

simple

If u've any more comments to make, please state ur country of origin.... i see u're using a Thai nickname but u cannot tolerate the Thai culture..... how ironic..

cheers

[etdgxcnc]

BUCKY,

I agree completely with you 100% !!!

[Atmotteenrift]

Quote[/b] (Selba @ July 08 2005,17:05)]BUCKY,

I agree completely with you 100% !!!

khob khun ja



If i go Indonesia, and into a muslim restaurant, i won't be ordering pork chop... i won't be making a big fuss in the restaurant asking why they don't serve pork too... this is call common sense... and understanding the culture..

[Indian Butt Magic]

Quote[/b] ]It is call "respect"... when i go to ur house, i take off my shoes because I "respect" ur "custom"...

I'm all for showing respect, when it is equal respect. If that person expects you to take your shoes off in your house, so should he do the same in your house.
So it can be said for the VIP should show equal respect for you, if he or she expects you to stand up in his or her presence, then they should do the same for you. Now ask your self the question, would the VIP e.g. President, King Queen, stand up in your presence, to respect you. If the answer to this question is No., I see no reason to stand up for them as a sign of respect, If the answer is Yes I would stand.

[entaifsfets]

If you think you want everyone to prove they are 'good' before you decide to be good... you will wait for ever - to be good. If you want to be good, respectful.. its your choice. We become a polite, good, respecting person when we choose to be that for ourself... not becauseof others. That is how good friends, families, cultures are made. Yes, there is some good faith & luck in it, but who said we were God and in total control of the world?

[Atmotteenrift]

[QUOTE=[b]Quote[/b] (paul_au @ July 08 2005,20:32)] So it can be said for the VIP should show equal respect for you, if he or she expects you to stand up in his or her presence, then they should do the same for you. Now ask your self the question, would the VIP e.g. President, King Queen, stand up in your presence, to respect you. If the answer to this question is No., I see no reason to stand up for them as a sign of respect, If the answer is Yes I would stand. then................... i think Thailand is not suitable for u...

nuff said

Though..... i think u gave very good advise on the cow and farming thread... maybe u should stick to cows and farmings in Australia.... hehehe

cheers

[layevymed]

Your reactions are so typical. Just because I don’t agree with something I have no right to even go to that country? Just because I don’t follow the rules? You talk about respect? I respect every human being I come in contact with. Just because I don’t stand for some song on the TV I am wrong? Do you have open eyes? Do you see the people begging on the street? Do you see the lepers on the foot bridge? Do you see the Thai’s working in Mcdonalds for only 5,00 baht a month, while they live in shacks built of corrugated tin? Do they get respect because they stand when told to do so by the powers that be? What about you? Do you deal with Thai’s on a human level? Not just as servants? When they are bringing you your beer Chang in the restaurants. I have been supporting my Thai girl friend’s “education”. I have been doing so for 2 years! I do it because I love her and respect her and want a good future for her. You tell me I don’t have respect because I don’t stand like some servant? I have been paying for her school because when she works she gets starvation wages. Why is she paying for an education? In other countries. Developed countries it is free. What about health care in Thailand? You try being poor and getting hurt and see what happens to you. If Thais had respect for anything would the cannals be black and full of toxic waste? Do you know how many children die a year swimming in dirty canals? 2,000 kids a year die because they drown. Poor kids can’t go to swimming pools. Do they get respect? The easiest thing for you to do is say GO HOME! Or DON”T COME HERE!…..Have you even read your history? Well if you did it would tell you that in the past Thai’s were slaves for the Rulers. They were even tattooed like property. Temples don’t built themselves. Slavery didn’t “end” until under Rama 5. If you think it ended at all. But talk to those people working for nothing in McDonalds…..I have seen foreigners go into Thailand and the second you criticize anything they jump like a monkey onto your back. Saying GO HOME! DON”T COME HERE! Well it is my right to go anywhere I choose. And say what I choose and do what I choose.. If you want to walk around in the Land Of Smiles smiling in pure and blind ignorance fine with me…Do what you want. Stand up and be silent…..Oh yeah it’s not ironic that I use the name Som Tam which is a Thai food. If you had any understanding of thai Culture you would understand that it is a joke. I must explain this to you too. You see thai society is very classist society. If classist is a word.(if it isn’t it is now) Why do you think they don’t like dark people? Because dark work in fields and are generally poor. So of course they don’t like dark people. Well also it is a Lao or Issan food which comes from the north East which is poor. And it is considered a poor persons food. So if you have a rich Bangkok Thai girlfriend ask her if she likes Som Tam. She will say NO. Because it is for those poor people……What people living in Thailand should read the history. Learn to read and write thai. Like I have done, Then they can come up with some rational arguments better than just GO HOME OR GET OUT OF HERE!…..Oh yeah another thing……..Remember as there is a folly of one there is also a folly of 10 million…. If 100 million people do something stupid it is still stupid. No matter how many people do it…….What if I were to tell everybody they have to stand up for Mickey Mouse? I mean I have not met the King or know the king. But I don’t know Mickey Mouse either.. So if I told you to stand for Mickey would you? Even if I was a worshipper of Mickey Mouse? And I believe that eating Ice cream was wrong? Why the #### not eat pork? It is damm good. I like it… Everybody together let’s sing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! M-I_C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!! Everybody together!! RESPECT!!!! Now stand up!! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!!

[Atmotteenrift]

Quote[/b] (Som Tam @ July 09 2005,11:50)]Your reactions are so typical.
M-I_C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!! Everybody together!!

M-I_C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!!

[layevymed]

You got me. I am an American! Well I am one who was born in America. But being American doesn't mean a thing to me. And of course you know the War makers and the Killers for profit are not the majority of Americans. It is only a handfull of monsters in the White house. Of course they are voted in. Elected. Not in the meaningful sense of the word election. More like shopping for a product. I mean there was no real choice nor any real "election". I mean does anybody have a choice? When they are forced from birth to follow the rules? The systems agents are everywhere. Parents, teachers, Tv, schools, temples, EVERYWHERE!...I have seen people living in shacks on the side of the road while they build temples to put a plastic painted golden god with 7 dragon heads in it!!!! A nice temple but a crappy home, built on the side of the railroad tracks..Wait gotta go!!! Educate the masses....People call in Common Sense? Being told how to act by others? I call it COMMON NONSENSE!!! There is so much we can go into. But I would just get banned and blocked from this site. You can't say the truth on these so called "Open" sites.....Anyway I hope everybody in Thailand will try to have some fun and learn about what is going on around them and not just listen to that Right Wing Propaganda Bangkok Post........

[entaifsfets]

Som Tam, what have you achieved in this topic? That, if Thailand has to become rich & fair like you it has to stop the shared practise of respecting its country's symbols & leadership? After that, what next? Will you be around to take the entire course? Or are you just the humble person who loads the bomb and not responsible where it drops and what happens after that?

[etdgxcnc]

Waaahhhh..... is getting pretty hot in here, like the weather!!! Hahaha...

Well, Som Tam, as you said that you are an american, please try to understand that we are from different culture, tradition, beliefs, custom, etc. We - Asian ppl have been brought up to pay a great respect our parents/eldery, our country/government, our religion, etc. in different way, not the way as the western.

Please don't expect that we will change as you western people, we have our pride and dignity. If you can't stand the way we Asian people then just leave us alone, do not be bother at all with us the Asian ppl!!!

Oh... and do not worry, I believe that people in Thailand still have a lot of fun although they still stand up during their national anthem or having respect to their custom.

[layevymed]

I know it is a wate of time aruging on these forums.@trangam you gotta remember what purpose these symbols sevre. It is to keep the social order. To maintian a certian type of society. A huge gap between the poor and the rich. And what bomb are you talking about loading? I don't drop any bombs anywhere. Expressing myself is a bomb? Just because I don't march in line with the rest of the people? Why is that? And @Selba.....I have heard from Asian people constantly saying that their culture is different and I don't understand. Well I do understand and I see it is complete opression and stupidity..And why do you see yourself as Asian? Aren't you just a human being like everybody else? What can't you concieve of yourself as a human and not a person of a nation or relegion? That is mideval thought patterns. You telling me not to bother the Asian people? Have you looked out of the window and seen the McDonald's Arches? Do you eat at K.F.C? Do you go shopping for a mobile phone? You culture has already been destroyed and turned into a consumerist compycat clone culture....Open your eyes..This is from BuckyM-I_C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!!!

[PriernPayorse]

This is an interesting thread to me (also amurkin!, tho my wife is thai[saan]). First, want to say to Mr. Papaya Salad: Dude, I think you and me could probably be good friends... I think that we share a lot of the same opinions, and I share your point of view about a lot of what you have said. Having said that however, when I go to see movies (for example), I am happy to stand up for the king. It's funny, really... I get kinda emotional and proud (maybe it's the music!) about the king and thailand. I don't think you "should" stand up if you don't want too. Frankly, I'm suprised people actually threw stuff at you.
I guess all I would say to you, is that what does it do to not stand? Well, you create disharmony in your immediate surrounding, with the ensuing consequences. Also, you receive a sense of satisfaction at not having submitted yourself to the indignity of making a show of respect to a "repressive institution". What does it do to stand? Things go smoothly (no flying ice cubes). NO one is enslaved as a result. Do you see my point?
I also see plenty of injustice, all over the world... but sometimes you really do have to pick your battles. I mean, I could ask you why you are even going to see a movie anyway. I mean, by supporting movies and movie theaters- aren't you contributing more to slave-wage capitalism and human suffering than you are by observing a harmless thai custom? How about eating pork? Perhaps large-scale pig farming has something to do with the polluted water you care so much about. Get it?
I'm not saying don't care about anything. And I honestly meant what I said about us being like-minded. I just think you should try to keep things in perspective a little more. Have a good day/night!

-mike

[layevymed]

I disagree that we NO one is enslaved. We are all enslaved. I mean we stand around and do nothing while all kinds of Wars are going on.And by not standing for the king or any anthem is to maybe perhaps make other people realize that it isn't that big of a deal and that maybe they too don't have to stand if they don't want to.. I mean by going to a movie i am just wasting time and trying to keep my mind occupied. Most movies are generally trash. But in Bangkok the movies are only 100 baht so it is nice to sit in the air conditioned room and sit on those comfy seats and watch the explosions and the guy get the hot girl in the end. Better then sucking down exhust fumes while begging on a foot bridge. I have had all kind of funny thing happen to me by not standing. Throwing iced cubes at my head. Like I have said. And one time I was sitting there and everybody stood up. This old woman stands up next to me and starts punching my shoulder and telling me to WAKE UP! I look at her and say I AM AWAKE! She punches me again and says WAKE UP!! WAKE UP!! I said Hello, I am awake. Then she just stood there shaking her head in disbelief. It was funny because she thought that the only reason somebody wouldn't stand is because they were ASLEEP!!!! No, I was totally awake and consiouse of not wanting to stand. I mean The whole point is to go in there and sit and watch a movie. Why do i have to stand back up? What if my legs are tired from riding all those as the Thais call them Sliding Stairs? (I can't spell escelators) is that right? And another time, I sat there whle everybody was standing up and there was this little girl around 4 years old with her father. She starts tugging on her fathers arm and points at me and asks her father why I am not standing...He then takes the little girl and goes to sit SOMEWHERE ELSE!!! he didn't want her to see me NOT STANDING!!! Wonder if he wants her to see all those beggers? They don't even have legs to stand on most of the time. And having things in prespective is exactly why I DON"T STAND!! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!

[PriernPayorse]

Thank you for teaching us all the meaning of the word revolutionary.

-mike

[entaifsfets]

All of us have problems, Som Tam, for which we look for answers from our 'own' and from 'outside'. You make everyone look so ignorant!! And let me agree for your sake, and maybe true, the developing world has more problems to solve than you have. Ok.

But if you were to take the condescending tone you are taking, I would not let you even save my life. (probably you consider its worthless anyway?) Let alone, telling me how to stand, sit and walk. So, whats the role you really playing?

Note, I am not telling you how to speak or not . All I am saying is that my ears to you are closed how much ever sense lies within your rhetoric and shout. And if you genuinely had something new to say - its such a loss - one revolution less in the wheel?

[Atmotteenrift]

Som Tam, we probably have something in common.. i too, symphathaized the beggars on the streets in Thailand .. "often", i complaint about the corrupted Thai police, the policitians, the bloody traffic..... and the gap between the rich and the poor in Thailand... yes, i complaint....
and then i look back at my own country... my own country is not perfect too.. we have corruption too.. the rich and poor gap is widenning.... i'm sure the great USA has its own set of problems too..
My point is, every house has their own house rules... if u don't like the rules, avoid that house.... u don't go into that house and tell the house owner to change the rules for u.. i'm sure ur own house has got lousy rules too and i'm sure u don't appreciate guests coming into ur house and telling u to change ur rules...


oh.. correct me if i'm wrong.. In America, i saw on tv that before the start of all Baseball games in the stadium, u guys stand up, clench ur right fist and put it on ur heart and sing ur national anthem.. well, if i'm in USA and i "choose" to go watch one of these games, i'll be standing along with u Americans.. i won't be singing or putting my fist on my heart though... just stand .... ####, if i don't stand.. i'll probably get beaten up by some rednecks Americans... u're lucky u only get thrown crushed ice...

correct me if i'm wrong..

cheers

[etdgxcnc]

Quote[/b] ]And why do you see yourself as Asian?

hmmm....should I answer this silly question? *thinking*

Answer:
because my race is Asian, my hair is black, my skin is yellow, my eyes are not wide, and for sure I give respect to my custom, tradition, culture, etc.

[etdgxcnc]

Well, I have been taught by the way of asian people...

"If you go to a sheep cage then you need to bleat,
if you go to a horse stall then you need to neigh."

and if you are not willing to accept it or want to do it, then don't go there.