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10-24-2005, 02:48 PM | #1 |
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timsk1577 (1:03:52 PM): well i have been posting for a while
Veilmask999 (1:03:52 PM): just asking timsk1577 (1:04:20 PM): lots of ppl come asking about wierd stuff and not about kendo so i start posting wierd stuff too Veilmask999 (1:04:54 PM): lol, well should be more room for discussing other sword arts, especially those which kendo was derived from, shame there is not. timsk1577 (1:06:00 PM): well i guess there are a lot of ppl. posting this is rurouni kenshin and how does this relate to last samurai have been posting there so its been wierd Veilmask999 (1:06:20 PM): oi vei Veilmask999 (1:06:45 PM): Please, I have just discoverd this is anime stuff, this annoys me a little, but most here are way to mean to these folks, who are mostly kids timsk1577 (1:07:37 PM): the thing is. I like watching anime. I watch it more than the average person. But there is a defined line between reality and fantasy Veilmask999 (1:07:50 PM): thats for sure timsk1577 (1:07:51 PM): some ppl have seemed to cross this line Veilmask999 (1:08:13 PM): Funny thing though, I was practicing reverse grip style long befoe I ever saw any Zato ichi movie, lol Veilmask999 (1:09:01 PM): Doing in one handed like in the movie, not so good except for quikc blocks and stabs, takes two hands to make it work well, or forearms of a java man, and his two brothers timsk1577 (1:09:19 PM): well the thing is. don't learn kendo from the movies Veilmask999 (1:09:25 PM): never did Veilmask999 (1:09:39 PM): such styles did exist, learned them along with everything else timsk1577 (1:09:41 PM): learn it from ppl who actually teach and do. thats all Veilmask999 (1:10:03 PM): underhand is another way, thats all, always keep an open mind, thats my motto timsk1577 (1:10:27 PM): yes.. but kendo is different from kenjutsu and iai. Veilmask999 (1:10:41 PM): oh yes, its not nearly as good for practical real use timsk1577 (1:10:46 PM): i keep an open mind but within the kendo realm. Veilmask999 (1:10:47 PM): but it is what it is Veilmask999 (1:10:55 PM): lol Veilmask999 (1:11:07 PM): should broaden your horizon, sticking to one class or style, not good, not wise Veilmask999 (1:11:25 PM): I've studied a dozen styles and then some, gotta be open timsk1577 (1:11:55 PM): ya. ppl who learn different "styles" of martial arts, etc that start kendo end up with wierd kendo. timsk1577 (1:12:01 PM): Funny footwork, etc Veilmask999 (1:12:24 PM): I beat Kendo guys all the time, they dont know what to do without the armor and with a heavy boken it seems, *shrug* Veilmask999 (1:12:28 PM): Proper footwork Veilmask999 (1:12:32 PM): not funny Veilmask999 (1:12:40 PM): kendo is the funny stuff Veilmask999 (1:12:44 PM): on the toes, oi Veilmask999 (1:12:54 PM): but its a sport Veilmask999 (1:13:02 PM): so gotta be geared towards that aspect I guess timsk1577 (1:13:09 PM): well its not a sport.. thats the thing Veilmask999 (1:13:15 PM): yes it is timsk1577 (1:13:23 PM): if it were a sport then youd see it on ESPN Veilmask999 (1:13:24 PM): whoeever told you it wasnt lied timsk1577 (1:13:31 PM): lemme see.. my sensei Veilmask999 (1:13:37 PM): lol no, who would watch, they already have olmpic fencing Veilmask999 (1:13:45 PM): olympic Veilmask999 (1:13:51 PM): which is a sport, but yours is not, umm, ok timsk1577 (1:13:55 PM): ya, but i think kendo is more fun Veilmask999 (1:14:02 PM): that dont make it any less of a sport timsk1577 (1:14:11 PM): but it does have a martial arts aspect Veilmask999 (1:14:14 PM): logic, not feelings should dictate reasoning timsk1577 (1:14:17 PM): so how long have you practiced timsk1577 (1:14:18 PM): ? Veilmask999 (1:14:20 PM): so does fnecing, lol Veilmask999 (1:14:30 PM): Practiced swordwork, since I was 8 timsk1577 (1:14:37 PM): well thats different Veilmask999 (1:14:48 PM): not really, well for here yeah Veilmask999 (1:15:11 PM): Good to start young I think timsk1577 (1:15:15 PM): well kendo footwork and "swordwork" footwork atre diff Veilmask999 (1:15:21 PM): depends on the youngster though timsk1577 (1:15:41 PM): you can see the debate on kendo being a sport or not on the forums if you wish timsk1577 (1:15:46 PM): but most ppl agree that it is not a sport Veilmask999 (1:15:56 PM): Yep, in sword work footwork is walk as you normally would, lots of over complication in sports like kendo, you could really polish up your technique by studying other things Veilmask999 (1:16:20 PM): Most of those peole are Kendoists, who take it too seriously, sorry, it is a sport, points, no risk, armor, sound familiar, umm, football Veilmask999 (1:16:29 PM): Sport Veilmask999 (1:16:36 PM): logic, reason, use them ;-) timsk1577 (1:16:50 PM): well have you practiced it? Veilmask999 (1:16:59 PM): Sure, it is a sport timsk1577 (1:17:07 PM): where and for how long? Veilmask999 (1:17:20 PM): lol, long enough to know it was a sport timsk1577 (1:17:27 PM): how long is that Veilmask999 (1:17:33 PM): argueing emotion, not wise, your kinda biased timsk1577 (1:17:39 PM): well no Veilmask999 (1:17:51 PM): martial aspect dont make it any less a sport, martial is war, lots of war sports, like paint ball Veilmask999 (1:17:54 PM): thats martial timsk1577 (1:18:02 PM): martial is war?? timsk1577 (1:18:12 PM): have you read the book of five rings? Veilmask999 (1:18:21 PM): butits a sport, yet painballers may argue differently, make the distinction, nothing wrong with practicing a spport you know Veilmask999 (1:18:39 PM): LOL, read it, my young freind, that is the style I trained in for 10 years, from 8 to 18, lol timsk1577 (1:18:39 PM): thing is so how long have you been practicing? Veilmask999 (1:18:46 PM): 24 years timsk1577 (1:18:54 PM): ok ok so what rank? Veilmask999 (1:19:03 PM): Do not go the route of the synic and skeptic when your views begin to be challenged, thats weak timsk1577 (1:19:23 PM): its still a martial art to me timsk1577 (1:19:28 PM): i don't see it as a sport6 Veilmask999 (1:19:30 PM): well it is not Veilmask999 (1:19:39 PM): nothing wrong eiht that though Veilmask999 (1:19:41 PM): with Veilmask999 (1:19:53 PM): Are you at risk? timsk1577 (1:20:01 PM): ??? timsk1577 (1:20:04 PM): at risk? Veilmask999 (1:20:08 PM): tou wear armor, football players are at more risk Veilmask999 (1:20:13 PM): Yes, risk Veilmask999 (1:20:17 PM): There must be risk for gain timsk1577 (1:20:41 PM): well yes football players are at risk since they actually get tackled Veilmask999 (1:20:44 PM): Your to set in your ways for me to teach, you dont listen Veilmask999 (1:20:52 PM): To quick to disagree timsk1577 (1:20:54 PM): well preach on then timsk1577 (1:21:00 PM): tell me why its a sport to you timsk1577 (1:21:02 PM): i'll listen Veilmask999 (1:21:07 PM): Nah, you consider it preaching, you get personally involved timsk1577 (1:21:11 PM): okok timsk1577 (1:21:13 PM): wrong worf timsk1577 (1:21:14 PM): word Veilmask999 (1:21:23 PM): Nah, whats the pojnt, I come here looking for decent students, your in cali, Veilmask999 (1:21:38 PM): *shrug* timsk1577 (1:21:43 PM): so what does cali have todo with me being a decent student? Veilmask999 (1:21:54 PM): cant teach you, your in cali Veilmask999 (1:22:08 PM): and your to wrapped up in kendo, you dont want to hear about anything else timsk1577 (1:22:14 PM): well you said it was a sport. sure it has sports aspects, but why is it a sport to you? Veilmask999 (1:22:14 PM): a shame Veilmask999 (1:22:24 PM): Hmm, because it is Veilmask999 (1:22:27 PM): Protection Veilmask999 (1:22:29 PM): check, Veilmask999 (1:22:31 PM): points Veilmask999 (1:22:33 PM): check, Veilmask999 (1:22:35 PM): life, Veilmask999 (1:22:38 PM): not at risk, check Veilmask999 (1:22:44 PM): not a real martial art, since thats for war Veilmask999 (1:22:45 PM): hmm Veilmask999 (1:22:47 PM): sport timsk1577 (1:22:49 PM): i can agree with you with the points timsk1577 (1:22:56 PM): that is like a sport timsk1577 (1:23:27 PM): but protection is derived from the fact that ppl got maimed or killed practicing with real swords. Veilmask999 (1:23:31 PM): not like, is, stop trying to make semantical differences, you think it being a sport makes it less valid, pfft. timsk1577 (1:23:33 PM): same with shinai Veilmask999 (1:23:35 PM): Thats what wood is for timsk1577 (1:23:45 PM): you can still get maimed with mood timsk1577 (1:23:46 PM): wood Veilmask999 (1:23:47 PM): bah, shinai can break and splinter this si true Veilmask999 (1:23:58 PM): I know this, I have been sparring wiht it all my life, not dead yet Veilmask999 (1:24:06 PM): and my stuidents are taught to spar with it Veilmask999 (1:24:23 PM): and your too quick to answer, do you ever just listen? Veilmask999 (1:24:28 PM): oi vei Veilmask999 (1:24:41 PM): how you keep quiet in your classes, a mystery timsk1577 (1:24:50 PM): yes i do Veilmask999 (1:24:59 PM): miraacle, you cant do it here |
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10-24-2005, 02:50 PM | #2 |
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Veilmask999 (1:25:02 PM): oi
Veilmask999 (1:25:18 PM): Hardwood is good Veilmask999 (1:25:44 PM): Risk is good, as long as it is managed, have to be a real swordsman to work with hardwood, if you cant, your not good enough Veilmask999 (1:25:54 PM): its that simple really Veilmask999 (1:25:57 PM): *shrug* Veilmask999 (1:26:23 PM): sorry, I can not talk anymore, you keep typing, and wanting to interrupt timsk1577 (1:26:35 PM): hello!?? you typed more than me Veilmask999 (1:26:45 PM): yes, but I am trying to teach you something Veilmask999 (1:26:49 PM): big difference Veilmask999 (1:26:53 PM): oi timsk1577 (1:27:34 PM): ok so the only thing you taught me is that kendo is a sport because it has points, your life is not at risk and there is p[rotection Veilmask999 (1:27:45 PM): more then that, but yes Veilmask999 (1:27:56 PM): and if thats all its because your not really open to anything else timsk1577 (1:27:56 PM): ok so show me more then timsk1577 (1:28:12 PM): i'd liike to know why you think its a sport Veilmask999 (1:28:15 PM): you have that samw blind devotion that many martial artists have to their styles timsk1577 (1:28:15 PM): know more Veilmask999 (1:28:37 PM): Nah, I dont have anything to prove, never have, thats why I dont fit in here for the most part, ands because I teach a ral martial art Veilmask999 (1:28:43 PM): real Veilmask999 (1:28:54 PM): How tiresome, ah well, thats life timsk1577 (1:28:56 PM): so what is this real martial art you teach? Veilmask999 (1:29:03 PM): Swordsmanship of course Veilmask999 (1:29:07 PM): lol timsk1577 (1:29:10 PM): ok so what type? Veilmask999 (1:29:10 PM): havent you been listening timsk1577 (1:29:12 PM): there are many Veilmask999 (1:29:15 PM): I told you timsk1577 (1:29:24 PM): kenjutsu, theres european fencing Veilmask999 (1:29:41 PM): thats not european fencing, lol timsk1577 (1:29:46 PM): sword work? Veilmask999 (1:29:52 PM): Sword work is a broad term Veilmask999 (1:29:56 PM): work with a swor timsk1577 (1:29:57 PM): thats what you coined it timsk1577 (1:30:02 PM): as Veilmask999 (1:30:03 PM): sword Veilmask999 (1:30:12 PM): nevermind, youd not understand Veilmask999 (1:30:17 PM): and your questions are the wrong ones Veilmask999 (1:30:29 PM): style means nothing, it is the man, there is no superior style, only superior fighters timsk1577 (1:30:48 PM): well you are shrouded in the fact that you won't listen to me and the fact that you spout off your own ideas timsk1577 (1:30:53 PM): i am more open than you think Veilmask999 (1:30:54 PM): true Veilmask999 (1:30:57 PM): perhaps Veilmask999 (1:31:01 PM): *shrug* timsk1577 (1:31:23 PM): you seemed to have formed your own opinion after 24 years of kendo Veilmask999 (1:31:27 PM): Hey, you may be great at Kendo, but it aint sword work timsk1577 (1:31:30 PM): which is fine Veilmask999 (1:31:41 PM): 24 years of sword work, kendo aint sword work timsk1577 (1:31:41 PM): ppl quit and for various reasons Veilmask999 (1:31:45 PM): lol timsk1577 (1:31:54 PM): ok you said you had 24 years of kendo experience Veilmask999 (1:32:08 PM): No I said 24 years fo sword work, I think I know what I said timsk1577 (1:32:34 PM): timsk1577 (1:18:39 PM): thing is so how long have you been practicing? Veilmask999 (1:18:46 PM): 24 years timsk1577 (1:32:37 PM): i meant kendo here timsk1577 (1:32:46 PM): so 24 years of swordwork then Veilmask999 (1:33:05 PM): you keep asking me about me, do you see me inquiring about your credentials, and time in suhcc things timsk1577 (1:33:07 PM): didn't want to misunderstand Veilmask999 (1:33:22 PM): No, cause I dont care, you ask the wrong questions Veilmask999 (1:33:45 PM): ah well, no matter how much money you had I'd have turned you away already, good that you live in Cali Veilmask999 (1:33:53 PM): *shrug* timsk1577 (1:34:08 PM): money? since when did this turninto a conversation about money? Veilmask999 (1:34:21 PM): lol, it didn't, take care timsk1577 (1:34:49 PM): sure.... whatever you say.... Veilmask999 (1:34:59 PM): thanks, this is kinda going nowhere, you know? timsk1577 (1:35:11 PM): well tell me what swordwork is so i understand it timsk1577 (1:35:16 PM): then it'll go somewhere timsk1577 (1:35:31 PM): i've got all the time in the world right now Veilmask999 (1:35:34 PM): Sword work is proper cutting techniqwue, timing, rhythm, everything one uses to kill ones opponent. Veilmask999 (1:35:57 PM): It is geared toward practicality, towards simplicity, towards overcoming ones fear of death, this is sword work timsk1577 (1:36:22 PM): ok. so what kind of sword do you use to practice swordwork? Veilmask999 (1:37:03 PM): Doesnt matter, swords a sword, some are better for cutting some thrusting, depends on the person, I dont fcous overly on the technique, but equally on the physical and mental aspects Veilmask999 (1:37:15 PM): Dont get caught up in the mundane of this weapon and that timsk1577 (1:37:29 PM): well wouldn't you need a sword to practice swordwork? timsk1577 (1:37:49 PM): and wouldn't it make a difference btwn a katana and say a claymore? Veilmask999 (1:38:13 PM): lol, ofcourse, however truth be told, if you have zanshin, then your already a master, even if you have never picked up a sword. timsk1577 (1:40:03 PM): ok. so if you don't overy focus on your technique, then wouldn't "timing, rhythm, proper cutting technique" seem to implicity emphasize technique? Veilmask999 (1:40:36 PM): Those are necessities, I dont overly focus, this does not mean no focus, mind, body, spirit, I teach all three timsk1577 (1:41:28 PM): wouldn't you want to focus on that if they were necessities? timsk1577 (1:41:38 PM): they seem to imply the basics of your martial art timsk1577 (1:42:40 PM): and no.. just having zanshin doesn't make you a master... (if that is what you are implying about kendo) Veilmask999 (1:42:48 PM): no, because mind and spirit together are more important, they will be mastered, you making the mistake of not lsitening. To focus ovrerly is to overly develop these aspects. Not a lot of ways to kill a man, the moe complex a thing, the moe that can go wrong, keep it simple. Veilmask999 (1:43:04 PM): LOL, your just a kid, you dont even know what Zanshin, is timsk1577 (1:43:10 PM): kid? timsk1577 (1:43:14 PM): pretty old for a kid Veilmask999 (1:43:27 PM): Sorry, it does indeed make one a master, man, you are to wrapped up in the physical, youll nbever be a master with that attitude Veilmask999 (1:43:50 PM): Old has nothing to do with it. I am about 50,000 years older, likely older, your spiirt is very young. Veilmask999 (1:44:22 PM): reincarnation ins a wonderful thing, if you have been around a while, a burden too, know more then I would really like, ignorance is bliss, believe me timsk1577 (1:44:34 PM): the "moe"? really mature.... timsk1577 (1:45:02 PM): ok so how does just having zanshin make you a master? Veilmask999 (1:45:35 PM): I dont ahve time to explain it, one not fear death also makes on a master, this does not equate with you either I think Veilmask999 (1:45:50 PM): To not fear death also makes on a master, wont explain that to you either timsk1577 (1:45:56 PM): whatever Veilmask999 (1:45:57 PM): some thing you have to figure out for yourself, Veilmask999 (1:46:06 PM): if I gave out answers, no one would work to find them Veilmask999 (1:46:19 PM): you want easy answers dont you, lol timsk1577 (1:46:20 PM): its not like i want all my answers from you Veilmask999 (1:46:42 PM): yeah but its really that simple Veilmask999 (1:46:49 PM): Kep this in mind Veilmask999 (1:46:56 PM): and this lesson is worth a lot Veilmask999 (1:47:17 PM): TYhe answers you seek, lie in the simple things, to look for them in technique, style, movement, you wont find them timsk1577 (1:47:29 PM): that is pretty obvious to me Veilmask999 (1:47:34 PM): simplicity is the ky to mastering anything, the way to master one thing is the way to master all things Veilmask999 (1:47:56 PM): obvious yes, but you know the path and do not walk it, thats like being a soup ladle in a bowel of soup but never tasting the soup Veilmask999 (1:48:05 PM): ;-) timsk1577 (1:48:08 PM): hmm that seems like kendo to me tho Veilmask999 (1:48:10 PM): annoyed yet? timsk1577 (1:48:15 PM): nope not at all Veilmask999 (1:48:17 PM): it seems, but it aint timsk1577 (1:48:27 PM): the way to master one thing. timsk1577 (1:48:33 PM): i'm citing an example here timsk1577 (1:48:38 PM): like learning kihon Veilmask999 (1:48:46 PM): Your citing Miyamotot Musashi timsk1577 (1:48:51 PM): you learn it, you polish it and it is still not enough Veilmask999 (1:48:55 PM): Thats from ther book of five rings timsk1577 (1:49:00 PM): tru Veilmask999 (1:49:04 PM): Look Veilmask999 (1:50:38 PM): one sec timsk1577 (1:50:43 PM): ok no prob timsk1577 (1:50:55 PM): i can wait Veilmask999 (1:57:14 PM): back timsk1577 (1:57:19 PM): ok Veilmask999 (1:58:16 PM): cant explain it to well, but these things, to conquer ones fear of death, this is what doing all the sword work and practin all those years are all about, thats the goal, if on can achieve it, mastery over life and death, what more is there he needs to learn, nothing. Veilmask999 (1:58:43 PM): Stories like this are meant to stress the importance of the important things, instead you newbies and long timers, get caught up in the wrong stuff, the wrong goals Veilmask999 (1:58:58 PM): its a shame, but what can I do *shrug* timsk1577 (1:59:55 PM): the thing is.. you come and talk about your martial art and how kendo is a sport and it seems like you haven't practiced it at all. I can't comment about how your martial art is fake as much as you can't comment on kendo and say its fake. Veilmask999 (2:00:29 PM): LOL, trust me I can, because its all about creating life and taking it, anything else is just a sport. Tim |
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10-24-2005, 02:51 PM | #3 |
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Veilmask999 (2:00:29 PM): LOL, trust me I can, because its all about creating life and taking it, anything else is just a sport.
Veilmask999 (2:00:36 PM): you'll learn Veilmask999 (2:00:39 PM): or not Veilmask999 (2:00:43 PM): doesnt matter to me timsk1577 (2:00:50 PM): well then why IM me Veilmask999 (2:01:08 PM): lol, to chat, whod have thought you were atypical of that sight timsk1577 (2:01:51 PM): see you say you can say you can say it when you haven't even practiced it Veilmask999 (2:01:53 PM): lots of dunderheads there who want to blind themselves to the truth, and who do so by saying others who dont do what they do can not comment, while all the time you are tying to pass off what you do as a martial art, which is what I do, sad. timsk1577 (2:02:02 PM): i can't comment on yours timsk1577 (2:02:03 PM): either timsk1577 (2:02:12 PM): since I haven't seen it or tried it Veilmask999 (2:02:22 PM): And son, what you do and what I do, what you do is from what I do, what I do is the root, your the branch, gimmie a break, lol timsk1577 (2:02:46 PM): please something coherent please Veilmask999 (2:03:03 PM): I did, your inability to understand is not my problem. timsk1577 (2:03:25 PM): your ability to IM me and start spouting off stuff too Veilmask999 (2:03:33 PM): lol timsk1577 (2:03:39 PM): this is good timsk1577 (2:03:54 PM): i actually like this conversation Veilmask999 (2:03:56 PM): sorry, was bored timsk1577 (2:04:59 PM): bored. then if you are bored, you can go hone your craft then. Veilmask999 (2:05:34 PM): sorry, that was far to snide, and uncalled for, grow up, that was my departure, no wonder you enjoy this convo, your a child, goodbye. Veilmask999 signed off at 2:05:45 PM. |
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10-24-2005, 02:57 PM | #4 |
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Anyways, this was a recent conversation. Interesting nonetheless. if you can actually read all of it. Thing is tho, i'm in kendo for kendo only. I've never wanted to start another martial art. Its too time consuming and my time revolves around my work. Even If I wanted to start another one, my hobbies and interests are too different to start. (and veilmask, if you are reading this, i'm sorry if I offended. I just needed to get your side of the story, but you seemed to want to push upon me why kendo was not a martial art and my "kind" were just bull headed ppl. Trust me we aren't bull headed in real life. I have other interests as well, but not in other martial arts.)
Tim |
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10-24-2005, 03:32 PM | #5 |
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He seemed to be avoiding every question that you asked him. If he actually knew then he would have at least told you the basics of them. And then you tell him that you are ready to listen, but he won't speak up. I wouldn't be surprised if he sits in front of the computer all day watching Rurouni Kenshin and practicing techniques from there cause if he did any sort of swordwork, he would have at least known something.
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10-24-2005, 03:50 PM | #7 |
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10-24-2005, 03:50 PM | #8 |
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10-24-2005, 03:54 PM | #9 |
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He seemed to be avoiding every question that you asked him. If he actually knew then he would have at least told you the basics of them. And then you tell him that you are ready to listen, but he won't speak up. I wouldn't be surprised if he sits in front of the computer all day watching Rurouni Kenshin and practicing techniques from there cause if he did any sort of swordwork, he would have at least known something. Tim |
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10-24-2005, 03:57 PM | #11 |
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10-24-2005, 11:20 PM | #14 |
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If you guys use trillian, it records all of your conversations automatically so you don't have to make the extra effort to remember. HARRRRRRR!!!!! Tim |
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10-24-2005, 11:24 PM | #16 |
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10-24-2005, 11:30 PM | #17 |
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10-24-2005, 11:34 PM | #18 |
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Tim, Wow, the patience you have to even have a conversation that long with someone like that. To me, he's just mere fanatic who echos the saying from the books and stuff he read. How well he can do with a real sword in his hand? I don't know. So, I guess if you according to Veilmask. .. ...when a dental student practices drilling teeth on dummies, the dental student is not really "practicing" medecine? sigh, some people.
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10-25-2005, 12:03 AM | #20 |
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Hey its all good. I like hearing different points of view. It just made me want to inquire more when he talked about how I should learn more martial arts and all of the other things about kendo not being a martial art and everything taught to me by established senseis were wrong and the way that he practiced was right. Its sort of the opposite of the way I was taught by sensei and my parents. That was to basically don't spread yourself thin. Then you become a jack-of-all-trades and a master of nothing.
Tim |
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