[PharmACT]

I think the last two posts are great. This thread is about all aspects not just bipolar disorder. So keep them coming.

My only disappointment is I am finding is this post's replies and viewings are low (in my opinion). No one has even rated it. This thread's goal is to be a good resource. I think sincerely discussing roles and having them on record like this will help students, instructors, and dojo's out for a long time to come. (And prevent naive cruelty.)

I am however very elated by the forthright sincere candor that this thread received. I'll be reading from time to time. Please still post questions related to the subject. I'm sure others have information and experiences. Maybe DarQik can help? (If I'm not putting DarQik on the spot.) Any others?

Sincerely,
Danette

[MarlboroCig]

Hey there Red Oak Pony! Good on you for getting out there and grabbing life by the hojos!! One of my sisters has battled with bipolar for ages, including a couple of stints in psych hospital. Although she is doing really well these days, the idea of starting a sport where she was out of her comfort zone, with a bunch of people she didnt know, is way too much for her to handle. Let alone kendo where you have to run around yelling and generally feeling like a dufus for the first few weeks! Hell, I still feel like dufus half the time.

You sound like an inspirational person, particularly to start a thread where people can discuss your condition. I take my hat off to you!

Did you start at your dojo with friends for support, or did you jump in on your own? How did you find the first few practices?

[GenManagerS]

This is going to sound like a horribley ignorant question but I mean it most genuinely: do you ever worry that you may have a psychotic episode whilst using an iato or bokken? Or has this ever happened and how was it dealt with?

Over the weekend this thread and the word psychotic came to mind a few times. When we hear the word psychotic, we (or at least I) automatically associate it with psychotic rage and violence. The techincal term really doesn't have any association with violence, but rather with the the person's mind losing touch with reality. For all intents and purposes when they've gone psychotic they're body is here but their mind is on two channels--90% wonka land, 10% reality (again symptoms vary by individual and case, but that's the average I came up with by conversation with a person during a pyschotic break).

Snippet from the National Institute of Mental Health: "Common psychotic symptoms are hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of things not actually there) and delusions (false, strongly held beliefs not influenced by logical reasoning or explained by a person's usual cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms in bipolar disorder tend to reflect the extreme mood state at the time. For example, delusions of grandiosity, such as believing one is the President or has special powers or wealth, may occur during mania; delusions of guilt or worthlessness, such as believing that one is ruined and penniless or has committed some terrible crime, may appear during depression."

The symptoms aren't much different from the crazed drunk lunatic or the high drug user, except they aren't drinking or using drugs. They can appear very calm and normal, but once they start talking (or some of physical ticks start up) you can tell they're just not right.

is Bipolar a dangerous condition?

Mostly to themselves and the depressive swings can be more dangerous (suicide). I feel for the boyfriend. It's a tough ride especially with someone you care about. At the extreme you can't deal with them, they may have no hold on reality, and I mean seriously, who actually knows the procedure to have someone committed if they need it?

In the incredibly rare event that a person you're living with has completely lost touch with reality and you are trying to help them (medication, trip to the doctor, etc), they may believe you are trying to harm them, and try to protect themselves. That can get really odd--been there--been the meat shield between 2 relatives when it went downhill. Had we all not been completely calm and non-threatening even when the person got violent, it could have been bad. It's amazing that you can actually somehow get through all the insanity, and they'll let you help them. Inside they really want to be better and normal, but they just can't... It is my sincere wish that no one ever experience this!

My only disappointment is I am finding is this post's replies and viewings are low (in my opinion). No one has even rated it. This thread's goal is to be a good resource. I think sincerely discussing roles and having them on record like this will help students, instructors, and dojo's out for a long time to come. (And prevent naive cruelty.)

I am however very elated by the forthright sincere candor that this thread received. I'll be reading from time to time. Please still post questions related to the subject. I'm sure others have information and experiences. Maybe DarQik can help?

Of course, it's not a hot topic. Mental illness is often stigmatic--if I don't know about it, it won't hurt me... But it's not been ignored or treated to disrespect or petty joking. I'm chiming in because I've had a up-close view of problem at the extreme end. I really feel for the afflicted, because they really can't do anything about it. Once the brain says "No more! I can't take it!" and snaps, they're out of control. They couldn't deal with whatever it was, and now they need someone else to step in, make them safe, and help them recover. Recovery is also quite painful as one's life can be pretty much burned down like a house. By the time a semblance of normal is returned everything can be gone--job, school, friends, savings, etc. It can be very hard to get going again. If you have friends and family to help you through, you are very fortunate!


I really don't see it as a big deal. Because most of the time they will seem like another lunatic kenshi-anime fan or someone who's drunk. Most of us have learned things to do (calm them, redirect them, etc) and not to do (dangerous sporting activities). Kendo can also be pretty harsh to the ego if one expects to be great, so repeat visits aren't likely since manics tend to protect that ego.

Recovering people typically are looking for a safe place and are wary of things that make them feel unsafe to save themself more problems. Combatative sports or martial arts aren't seen by many as a safe place. The extremes are rarely ever seen in public, unless they've escaped from home to the "second home". Family, friends, and roommates are usually on the front line struggling to survive and for them that means getting the person help, not getting them out to activities.

[polleroy]

I have practiced with bokken sparing with full kendo armor.

>edit

nah,changed my mind, even i cant put what i was going to, haha

>edit

[UtidaBrar]

C'mon Ginge, out with it... you're thinking what I'm thinking, aren't you...?

[TaxSheemaSter]

My only disappointment is I am finding is this post's replies and viewings are low (in my opinion). No one has even rated it. This thread's goal is to be a good resource. I think sincerely discussing roles and having them on record like this will help students, instructors, and dojo's out for a long time to come. (And prevent naive cruelty.)

Danette

Hi Danette,

Although this tread is pretty informative it's a topic with a pretty big taboo, in the real world let alone in an environment where carrying a sword is normal. Most of my family think I'm nutcase (swinging swords around) and the fact that there are people with some serious mental illnesses with swords won't help either. So people choose to ignore it. That doesn't change the fact that you're right when you say that it's a good thing to discuss. So please continue... Although I've no experience with (serious) mentally ill people, it's always a good thing to be informed about. just because it isn't rated doesn't mean that the subject isn't appreciated. Most usefull treads don't get rated.

ps come on D'Artagnan... say it, I know you want to

[jurhoonee]

My only disappointment is I am finding is this post's replies and viewings are low (in my opinion). No one has even rated it. This thread's goal is to be a good resource. Although this tread is pretty informative it's a topic with a pretty big taboo, in the real world let alone in an environment where carrying a sword is normal. Most of my family think I'm nutcase (swinging swords around) and the fact that there are people with some serious mental illnesses with swords won't help either. So people choose to ignore it. I think that the answer to both of these statements is the same. I don't think anyone is ignoring the topic because of societal taboo. I also don't think responses have been "disappointingly low".
You are simply discussing a topic which affects a very small percentage of the world's population. There are a great many people that simply aren't interested in it as it doesn't affect them. This doesn't mean that it isn't a good topic, or that it shouldn't be discussed. It merely means that most people have no real interest in it.
I think you'd run into the same lack of interest in a post about the problems of sword practice for those with diabetes. The percentage of the population is fairly close.
I have practiced with bokken sparing with full kendo armor. I saw the example of Chikara dojo "sparring." I really don't think it qualifies as such. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[BliliBoopsy]

Isn't bipolar a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes the highs and low as in good moods and manic depressive moods?

[FsQGF1Mp]

Isn't bipolar a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes the highs and low as in good moods and manic depressive moods?

I think that's more like either under active thyroid or overly active. I know an old friend of mine had that. One minute she was happy, the next she wanted to kill herself. She also looked very gastly as if she was actually dying.

[Vokbeelllicky]

Isn't bipolar a chemical imbalance in the brain which causes the highs and low as in good moods and manic depressive moods?

I remember that was the description given to us years ago. The NIMH pages now says, "Most scientists now agree that there is no single cause for bipolar disorder—rather, many factors act together to produce the illness."

Manic is the good or high mood swing, and depressive or low is the other. So the balancing act is Manic/Depressive. Most of the time, you'd never notice. It's a lot like normal mood swings, but when the condition flares up the endpoints for those moods can move well beyond normal.


Blood sugar issues are another odd topic. Also, good to know the symptoms and response for them. Those can be very dangerous.

[Qrhzbadu]

I think that the answer to both of these statements is the same. I don't think anyone is ignoring the topic because of societal taboo. I also don't think responses have been "disappointingly low".
You are simply discussing a topic which affects a very small percentage of the world's population. There are a great many people that simply aren't interested in it as it doesn't affect them. This doesn't mean that it isn't a good topic, or that it shouldn't be discussed. It merely means that most people have no real interest in it.
I think you'd run into the same lack of interest in a post about the problems of sword practice for those with diabetes. The percentage of the population is fairly close.

We’ve got about 580 members at the NKR (Dutch Kendo Renmei), let’s say there are about a 100 Katori Shinto Ryu practitioners (a lot , I know but I’m not aware of any Niten Ichi Ryu or Yagyu Shinkage Ryu groups, so I had to guess) that makes 680. That’s 21 sword art practitioner with a mental illness (3%) in the Netherlands alone. There are 41 ZNKR dojo, I’m aware of 6 KSR dojo, so that’s a total 47 dojo. That’s almost 1 person per 2 dojo (0,43 persons per dojo, to be precise). That makes it a big issue even though there are only 21 swordsmen (women) with a mental illness. But I could be wrong...

[Jffxljtw]

That’s almost 1 person per 2 dojo And we probably average 1 person in every two dojo that actually comes on-line to this forum. So, that one person has a fifty/fifty chance of even being in a dojo with someone with a mental illness. Now you have to consider what the odds are of that one person, supposing that person is from the dojo with a mental illness, being interested in knowing more about the person's illness. Most people are not too interested if it doesn't impact them in a negative fashion. Pretty much like my reference earlier to diabetes. many people know someone that is diabetic. Most people aren't all that interested in learning more about their disease.

It is an interesting topic, and I'm definitely not trying to discourage conversation on the subject. I was just pointing out to Danette that she shouldn't expect an overwhelming amount of participation. I was also trying to point out to you that I truly didn't think it was due to any taboo. At least, it isn't here in the U.S. Heck, we have commercials on T.V. about it.

[quottrethew]

The question about how did I start with a dojo:

A very good sane-mild-mannered-friend of mine was a student at the dojo. He thought the practice could help when I was going through my psychosis. I asked my docs about it. They said if I could tolerate it, it would help with focus and improve my health. One can't practice swordsmanship easily without being in the here and now. My personality and history suits it.

I soon made friends with other students at both dojo's. My first Sensei was biased and was under the table about comments he made. I still stayed there two years due to my friendships and avoided Sensei. I was new to a dojo experience and bipolar experience. It took me a while to learn about curriculum's, safety, and some sort of ranking for promotion in a dojo. (At least to explain why I was being excluded from certain activities.) Today, I would have left after the first sit-down talk by my former instructor.

The disappointment thing: If this thread at least helps one person, informs one person, or gives one person inspiration, I'll be satisfied. I needed to take a break from the forum after that last post. I was getting emotional.

As for swordsmanship being a bad choice: I'd recommend speaking with a physciatrist first. They know your limitations if you have this support group. If there isn't a physician support, I'd recommend getting one if you are as disabled as I. My case is one of the extreme bipolar. There are many functioning bipolars out there that are famous. Or continue on with full lives.

As for swords being a bad choice: Just a different view without the stigma of 'powerful' swords. I have a license to drive and do so regularly. I think one ton of steel on wheels is far more damage inflicting than a katana or bokken. How many times does one catch themselves daydreaming while driving? Would you do that in practice? If I'm having problems concentrating and driving, I ask for someone else to drive me. If I'm having a hard time concentrating on my practice, I sit out and meditate.

Now this blood sugar thing? I'm very interested in the study. This is the first I've heard of it outside experience. When my mind is becoming disoriented, I find a sugary drink seems to snap me out of it for a while. Is this what it's talking about?

Sincerely,
Danette

[Hofonom]

C'mon Ginge, out with it... you're thinking what I'm thinking, aren't you...?

Most probably! haha!

[Joesred]

Now this blood sugar thing? I'm very interested in the study. This is the first I've heard of it outside experience. When my mind is becoming disoriented, I find a sugary drink seems to snap me out of it for a while. Is this what it's talking about?

Diabetes is what I was referring to. I had a friend in college who was hypoglycemic (low blood sugar). Basically, the sum of my knowledge was that when he started getting exceptionally irritable or looking pale it was time to remind him that he might need a candy bar--now. If he didn't notice it creaping up and nobody else did it could be rather bad--he would start to crash (shaking, dizzy, disoriented, etc).

If you're seriously noticing symptoms or suspect it--don't panic, but talk to your doctor about it.

[JeorgeNoxeref]

Darn about the sugar thing. I thought I was on to something. Plain old sugar rush. I'm not supposed to have caffeine, I miss it.

I'd like to state my current training and impact. I am in class rather 'normal'.

I have learned three iai kata and one five strike kumadachi with bokken both shidachi and odachi. This is within the last seven months with a three month hiatus. Numerous exercises on step and cut, types of strikes, and turning. Formalities with sword etc.

My belt testing is in June. (Scheduled twice a year.)

I was surprised that basics were actually covered in my previous albeit unconventional training. Learning the finesse and the huge ah ha's so-that's-why-it-should-be-done-this-way came in my current training.

The current iaido students are more advanced than me with moving fluidly. I am more advance than the students at my level with the cut. It all balances in the end. Black belt is about five years off for this school. I will have my first year in this Sept.

Danette

[pongeystrhjst]

My only disappointment is I am finding is this post's replies and viewings are low (in my opinion). No one has even rated it. This thread's goal is to be a good resource.

Hi Danette...

At time of writing, this thread has had over 750 views... that's in less than a week...

It's a topic that not many people have a lot of knowledge about and most of us would like to know more... but don't feel qualified to comment...

Thanks for starting the thread...

[NicolasOL]

Crabbi you are right, and I am sorry for the comment. I was getting emotional at the time. I didn't elaborate this on a previous post. I am happy if this thread helps a single person.

Truthfully, I started this thread because I was scared about confronting my illness with conflict that I have around me on the home front. I am very appreciative of this forums support in the matter. It has helped me conquer this fear and helped heal.

I am not however a good forum writer. Or knowledgeable as of yet to offer martial art advise or comment unless it is illness related. This is my last post so I can concentrate mentally on my training and belt testing coming up.

Thanks again, the forums upfront sincerity and candor is overwhelmingly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Danette

[Pa33anger]

I learned a lot from this thread. Thank you. And good luck in your training!