[dodadaxia]

Just wondering how you guys feel, while doing jieiko, or a practive shiai, and you have this great opening, you've got the momentum, you've commited 100% to your strike, you move in to execute your perfectly timed men, and your opponent just tilts his neck the the side and you hit nothing but air.

I sometime practice with my JHS kids, and in Japanese school kendo clubs, they pretty much all practice shiai kendo. So you see lots of head tilts, and side bend kotes.

Just frustrating, when you think you've got a point, and then bam, nothing. Thankfully, tilting my head is a habit I never picked up. I would rather take the hit, and know that I had an opening and try to fix it, rather than just boobing and weaving at each shinai that comes at me. It's not boxing!!

[KixdricyArrip]

Just wondering how you guys feel, while doing jieiko, or a practive shiai, and you have this great opening, you've got the momentum, you've commited 100% to your strike, you move in to execute your perfectly timed men, and your opponent just tilts his neck the the side and you hit nothing but air.

I sometime practice with my JHS kids, and in Japanese school kendo clubs, they pretty much all practice shiai kendo. So you see lots of head tilts, and side bend kotes.

Just frustrating, when you think you've got a point, and then bam, nothing. Thankfully, tilting my head is a habit I never picked up. I would rather take the hit, and know that I had an opening and try to fix it, rather than just boobing and weaving at each shinai that comes at me. It's not boxing!!

then maybe you should work on your speed a little more.

[pharweqto]

Just wondering how you guys feel, while doing jieiko, or a practive shiai, and you have this great opening, you've got the momentum, you've commited 100% to your strike, you move in to execute your perfectly timed men, and your opponent just tilts his neck the the side and you hit nothing but air.

Then it's not a perfect men.

[zatronanec]

then maybe you should work on your speed a little more.

Those Japanese high school kids are lightning fast, some how I think it's not his speed which is the issue.

Odinot-sensei always is saying that I shouldn't bother about getting hit cause I'm far from the skill that I can do something against it.
He's always telling me to attack, get the correct ma-ai find or make an opening and attack and when going fully go for it.

[russianstallian]

You do your kendo and they do theirs. If it is the "perfect men" in your eyes, then why does the fact that they moved their head matter? You stick true to what you want out of kendo, they can stick to their shiai kendo and bob their head, both people get what they want out of the practice, and everyone goes home happy. To each his own, just don't ruin your ideals and do something different, unless you choose to change because your ideals and method of doing kendo change...

[Theateetetuig]

If they can dodge your men... it's either your men is not fast enough.. or you give away that they see it comming already..

however.. at least they didn't block your men... dat'll be too slow.

perfect men = perfection.. you have to hit them... if you dont hit them.. then your men is not perfect.. lack something..


My Sensei tells me to not dodge men.. cos I'm not good enuf.. but I should keep on perfecting my attacks.. so dont worry about them attcking me.. I should aim to hit them even if they try to dodge.. or to a bit.. they can not even dodge or block and just get hit.


that is a perfect men.

[Ccddfergt]

true, it is indeed frustrating when you cant land it the way you want it. But has it occured to him that maybe he was getting a bit predictable? Thats why he cant get his men cut execution right? Varying maai, speed, and timing could be the key. Jschmidt is right in saying that it is not a perfect men.

P.S. If all else fail, why not trying to do a "not perfect men" and see if you can hit the men.

[BitStillrhile]

Well, i use the term "perfect men" very loosly. Of course I am nowhere near being able to preform a "perfect men", but I use it in the sense where you yourself feel good about your men. Good timing, fumi-koki, forward movement, etc...I think perfection is a subjective thing and really can only be furfilled by the person doing the action. Someone may telling you "that was a perfect men" but if you don't feel it was, then it isn't perfect to you. I know at times when I score points during practice shiai, I feel it could have been a long better, as far as timing, etc...

Anyways, most of these JHS and HS kids tilt their head at the first sigh of movement. I move my shinai up just a bit, and their head goes swinging to the left or right. I'm now learning to try to catch them when they return their head to the upright position.

[maonnjtip]

What did the bobble head get?
Nothing.

[Tryphadz]

Well, i use the term "perfect men" very loosly. Of course I am nowhere near being able to preform a "perfect men", but I use it in the sense where you yourself feel good about your men. Good timing, fumi-koki, forward movement, etc...I think perfection is a subjective thing and really can only be furfilled by the person doing the action. Someone may telling you "that was a perfect men" but if you don't feel it was, then it isn't perfect to you. I know at times when I score points during practice shiai, I feel it could have been a long better, as far as timing, etc...

Anyways, most of these JHS and HS kids tilt their head at the first sigh of movement. I move my shinai up just a bit, and their head goes swinging to the left or right. I'm now learning to try to catch them when they return their head to the upright position.

Next time hit them at where their head was and usually it's about where their ears are. After a while it's nofun any more to bob and get smashed in the ears. Maybe they will get the hint then.

[Numbiydq]

Next time hit them at where their head was and usually it's about where their ears are. After a while it's nofun any more to bob and get smashed in the ears. Maybe they will get the hint then.

Are you suggesting that he deliberatly tries to smash their eardrums?

[w4WBthjv]

Are you suggesting that he deliberatly tries to smash their eardrums?

No not that bad of course. After reading my post again you're right that one could read that. But I don't mean to hit deliberately but just continue the strike that you had in mind and it usually ends up roughly there. I think it's better to be hit on the men than on the side of my head when I try to evade a hit, is what I was trying to say. There are folks who, when they move in for kote already move their head out of the way of the anticipated counter men. I also don't think it's a matter of speed but of timing to deliver the "perfect" men. The way he describes the way he tries to catch sounds more like a speed contest instead of delivering a "perfect" blow. But then again shiai is a totally different concept.

[Si8jy8HN]

Lead them than. If they like moving thier head so much, just guess where they're gonna move it and swing there. Unless I'm imaging wrong, explain, "bobbing heads" better.

[RsQhyZyR]

Leading your shinai early to where you think their head might bob is a bad idea. If they don't bob then you have lost the center. I think your options are only to hit straight and just go through, you don't get ippon but they don't hit back because they are dodging, OR, adjust the path of your shinai in the middle of your down swing (although this is harder to do than simply typing it here, frequently this will result in hitting the side of their men and not the area that results in ippon).

The main point is that leading to where you think they are going is going to ruin your center.

Head bobbing is the leaning of their head to the side so they don't get hit with by shomen, but more on their shoulder or side of their head. It is a way of avoiding losing a competition and is very subject to debate, lets not continue it here, it's been beaten to death already.

[orison]

I had a guy last Monday kept bobbing his head out of the way. The problem was that it was during an exercise and he was meant to be receiving my men cuts!

Now that was irritating.

[RicyReetred]

If it is just drill, and not jigeiko, and someone is ducking their head out of the way, that is a pretty sure sign to me that you are hitting too hard and the person doesn't want to get hurt. Granted, the person could just be a putz, but I would ask them about it after practice. Maybe he doesn't feel right correcting you verbally or he feels too junior to give corrections, but he is definitely giving a very strong visual cue. Ask him and figure out why.

[Ruidselisse]

it's been beaten to death already.

It would be if it didn't keep bobbing its head!

[laperuzdfhami]

I was feeling ill and dizzy when I got to the dojo tonight so I sat out and watched and noticed that the same individual (I should prolly mention that he's only just in bogu, like me) was ducking his head, even in kirikaeshi. As the training went on though he began to stop doing it.

A bit of a relief, really. I didn't think I hit hard!

[CIAFreeAgent]

Well, what about hitting Men, MEN? [ two men in rapid sucession ]

I mean, heck... while you have your bamboo out there... why not give 'em an extra WHACK? Ideally this would be done when they snap their heads back into position as they are moving backwards.




Sorta weird with the person not wanting to be hit though... aways dodging like that... I don't think I've seen that in any class I've been to ('cept Sensei when sparring with beginners--not receiving sloppy strikes, dogging for instructions sake).

[lE3l6Lgn]

I had a guy last Monday kept bobbing his head out of the way. The problem was that it was during an exercise and he was meant to be receiving my men cuts!

Now that was irritating.

hahaha that's funny..that would've been hilarous to watch...LOL