New Road tax - UK - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**OwdBKKHO** · 12-19-2006, 07:57 AM

Dear all,

many of you will be grateful that you do not live in the Uk - not beacuse it is so terrible (which it is not) - but because you probably live in countries where the tax laws are reasonable ( never likeable, but necessary and just about affordable).

Well, Tony and his Cronies have come up with another wheeze to con the tax-paying classes ( not the super-rich nor the scummies -woah no) ...

The details of the proposal I have cut-and-pasted below which includes a link to a petition. I ask you to read it and make your own minds up whetehr or not you wish to add to the petition.

Subject: Road tax - Government petition

This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on privacy ever proposed in this Country!

No apologies for sending this on...This may not interest you and if it doesn't please simply delete it - if you're a motorist, read on and do your duty!

It was stated on the news this morning (27th November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted that all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements!

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website, sign up here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Lee

**Mangoman** · 12-19-2006, 08:06 AM

Sad.

Big Brother is Watching ...

**eljugadordepoquer** · 12-19-2006, 08:55 AM

EDIT- - Deleted stupid comment!! - -

**tattcasetle** · 12-19-2006, 09:09 AM

...If you've got a mobile phone in your car then they can already tell how fast and in what direction you are driving... the technology has been around for at least 5 years to my knowledge.

In light of that, they could introduce the proposed pricing etc without having to have a transponder in the car...

There is an increasing number of UK 'Citizens' who drive around without Road Fund Licence or Insurance (or in some cases even a Driving Licence). Currently the Police estimate that nationally 5% of UK Drivers have no insurance whatsoever... and in some areas (Tower Hamlets in London for example) this is as high as 20%.

In Tower Hamlets, the technology is already in place to automatically identify cars which contravene regulations such as parking restrictions and entering box junctions etc... but the number of misdemeanours is so high that the Police have decided that they can't cope with the volume and don't act on the alerts any more...!

Add to this the phenomenon of plate-cloning (where a false number plate that belongs to a similar colour, make and model of car is used to avoid speeding fines etc..) and you will start to understand the enormity of the problem.

Because of this increasing amount of flagrant disregard for the law and the inability of the authorities to act against lawbreakers the cost of running Britain's roads will fall to a smaller and smalelr group of people... now that's uncomfortable...

Ultimately, someone's got to pay...

**Trebbinsa** · 12-19-2006, 09:18 AM

A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

Nothing clogs up the roads worse than Mums on school runs...good riddance, I say.
(And how many here got driven to school by their mum?)

**markbila** · 12-19-2006, 10:05 AM

I can see a disincentive to be legal - if 20m motorists refuse to comply, what do they think they're going to do?

**Kghyutgykim** · 12-19-2006, 11:07 AM

I think there are more important things to complain about - and here in Bristol, the car congestion is awful - we need less cars on the road.

**echocassidyde** · 12-19-2006, 11:23 AM

I feel bad for you guys. You pay all of those taxes and you get so little in return. If socialism worked, it would have been the USA and not the USSR that fell.

**Kitdowstyhodo** · 12-19-2006, 05:38 PM

I'm all for the proposal personally. Your heavily slanted article points out the costs of the new system, but ignores the fact that billions of pounds are lost to UK businesses each year as a result of congestion. If it comes down to those who make the most use of a service providing the most funding for that service, then I can't really see the problem.

**AliceFromHouston** · 12-20-2006, 01:44 AM

I can see a disincentive to be legal - if 20m motorists refuse to comply, what do they think they're going to do?

That's a good point Hobbit... but taking my point ref the redundancy of the transponder (£200) when existing technology can do the job just as well... you'd think that the government would go for the no-cost solution which would also track all of those who don't pay road tax / insurance etc...

Put an e-purse facility on the SIM and they could even pay-as-you-go...!

There would, naturally, have to be some sort of logic in the system to weed out bus passengers, cyclists (but not motorcyclists of course!!), pedestrians, car passengers and so on and to identify commercial drivers, taxis, emergency vehicles etc... but that can't be beyond the wit of man...(!?).

You could even work out how to exempt teachers / nurses etc on their journey to work... Not impossible... just tricky...

**D6Ri5u13** · 12-20-2006, 04:49 AM

I can't really see the problem.

Not from bloody Tokyo, you can't!

Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you but it's something else if you commute to work by car in this country.

**mikajuise** · 12-20-2006, 04:53 AM

Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you...

Spot on.

There's no way Awooga Guy will allow anything like this to be fitted to his car. There really will be public outcry over this issue.

That is all.

**JonDopl** · 12-20-2006, 05:02 AM

But how will they check?

Buy the thing... pay the bill.... and stick it on your kids bike

**GECEDEANY** · 12-20-2006, 05:59 AM

Not from bloody Tokyo, you can't!

Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you but it's something else if you commute to work by car in this country.

I fully intend to be back in the UK in the next few years. Just not in Kent. As a public transport user, the changes will affect me - positively. Even for car users, the approach seen on this thread, which appears to be just burying your head in the sand (with the obvious exception of the valid technology suggestion) seems assured to bring about a worse long term result than complying with these changes. Let's hear a viable alternative if you're so against these plans...

**oemcheapdownload** · 12-20-2006, 06:04 AM

They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill.

This was my favourite part of the quoted text. Breaking the speed limit is OK if you do it accidentally then? I'm sure the family of a person run over by a speeding driver will be all hugs and smiles when they find out the driver wasn't concentrating on their speed and it was just an accident...
Needless to say I've broken the speed limit myself, but to try and insert a sentence like the one above into your argument and be taken seriously isn't going to get you all that far... certainly not all the way to Tokyo.

**DrazAdwamoi** · 12-20-2006, 06:31 AM

If socialism worked, it would have been the USA and not the USSR that fell.

Not to be an asshole, but there are still a great big number of countries in the world that I would classify as socialist. Sweden for instance.
Socialism and communism are not the same thing you know.

By the way, how much did you pay to go to college or the university? My guess is that it was a bit more than I am paying :P

**ringsarcle** · 12-20-2006, 07:02 AM

It is terrible and damn right annoying but who's to say that other countries have heavier tax on other things to even it out?

Im not happy about the fact that i have to pay £65 per month for a zone card when my bus smells, hardly turns up and the drivers are cheeky. Thanks alot First bus!

**Jorcelirl** · 12-20-2006, 07:44 AM

Not to be an asshole, but there are still a great big number of countries in the world that I would classify as socialist. Sweden for instance.
Socialism and communism are not the same thing you know.

By the way, how much did you pay to go to college or the university? My guess is that it was a bit more than I am paying :P

He holds a menkyo in Mc Carthy ryu, socialists or communists, all are reds simple as that, huh Gessho.

Back to the subject.

**Toossehew** · 12-20-2006, 10:05 AM

[quote=Kingofmyrrh]This was my favourite part of the quoted text. Breaking the speed limit is OK if you do it accidentally then? I'm sure the family of a person run over by a speeding driver will be all hugs and smiles when they find out the driver wasn't concentrating on their speed and it was just an accident...

This may come as shock to you but speeding does not always result in a fatality. speeding is however the only cause that the police profit from.
The following is a quote from a website and the link is below

"The latest government report on road accidents shows that less than 5% of accidents involve vehicles exceeeding the speed limit.
The report ridicules the long proclaimed lie than 'one third' of accidents are caused by 'speeding'.
However, many journalists are being hoodwinked by the DfT who, in summarizing the report, have grouped 'exceeding a speed limit' with 'inappropriate speed for the conditions'. The latter depends upon road and weather conditions and has nothing to do with posted speed limits. It is necessary to read the report in detail to discover the truth. "

http://www.abd.org.uk/

**RCQDnMp5** · 12-20-2006, 10:28 AM

Why is the ABD against speed cameras?..do they think it's ok to break the law?

12-19-2006, 07:57 AM	#1
OwdBKKHO Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 486 Senior Member	New Road tax - UK Dear all, many of you will be grateful that you do not live in the Uk - not beacuse it is so terrible (which it is not) - but because you probably live in countries where the tax laws are reasonable ( never likeable, but necessary and just about affordable). Well, Tony and his Cronies have come up with another wheeze to con the tax-paying classes ( not the super-rich nor the scummies -woah no) ... The details of the proposal I have cut-and-pasted below which includes a link to a petition. I ask you to read it and make your own minds up whetehr or not you wish to add to the petition. Subject: Road tax - Government petition This is the biggest move to tax & infringe on privacy ever proposed in this Country! No apologies for sending this on...This may not interest you and if it doesn't please simply delete it - if you're a motorist, read on and do your duty! It was stated on the news this morning (27th November 2006) one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted that all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licences, only 23% - 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements! The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill. If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website, sign up here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/ Lee Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 08:06 AM	#2
Mangoman Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 650 Senior Member	Sad. Big Brother is Watching ... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 08:55 AM	#3
eljugadordepoquer Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 439 Senior Member	EDIT- - Deleted stupid comment!! - - Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 09:09 AM	#4
tattcasetle Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 535 Senior Member	...If you've got a mobile phone in your car then they can already tell how fast and in what direction you are driving... the technology has been around for at least 5 years to my knowledge. In light of that, they could introduce the proposed pricing etc without having to have a transponder in the car... There is an increasing number of UK 'Citizens' who drive around without Road Fund Licence or Insurance (or in some cases even a Driving Licence). Currently the Police estimate that nationally 5% of UK Drivers have no insurance whatsoever... and in some areas (Tower Hamlets in London for example) this is as high as 20%. In Tower Hamlets, the technology is already in place to automatically identify cars which contravene regulations such as parking restrictions and entering box junctions etc... but the number of misdemeanours is so high that the Police have decided that they can't cope with the volume and don't act on the alerts any more...! Add to this the phenomenon of plate-cloning (where a false number plate that belongs to a similar colour, make and model of car is used to avoid speeding fines etc..) and you will start to understand the enormity of the problem. Because of this increasing amount of flagrant disregard for the law and the inability of the authorities to act against lawbreakers the cost of running Britain's roads will fall to a smaller and smalelr group of people... now that's uncomfortable... Ultimately, someone's got to pay... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 09:18 AM	#5
Trebbinsa Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. Nothing clogs up the roads worse than Mums on school runs...good riddance, I say. (And how many here got driven to school by their mum?) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 10:05 AM	#6
markbila Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 388 Senior Member	I can see a disincentive to be legal - if 20m motorists refuse to comply, what do they think they're going to do? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 11:07 AM	#7
Kghyutgykim Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 442 Senior Member	I think there are more important things to complain about - and here in Bristol, the car congestion is awful - we need less cars on the road. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 11:23 AM	#8
echocassidyde Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 407 Senior Member	I feel bad for you guys. You pay all of those taxes and you get so little in return. If socialism worked, it would have been the USA and not the USSR that fell. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-19-2006, 05:38 PM	#9
Kitdowstyhodo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 438 Senior Member	I'm all for the proposal personally. Your heavily slanted article points out the costs of the new system, but ignores the fact that billions of pounds are lost to UK businesses each year as a result of congestion. If it comes down to those who make the most use of a service providing the most funding for that service, then I can't really see the problem. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 01:44 AM	#10
AliceFromHouston Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 506 Senior Member	I can see a disincentive to be legal - if 20m motorists refuse to comply, what do they think they're going to do? That's a good point Hobbit... but taking my point ref the redundancy of the transponder (£200) when existing technology can do the job just as well... you'd think that the government would go for the no-cost solution which would also track all of those who don't pay road tax / insurance etc... Put an e-purse facility on the SIM and they could even pay-as-you-go...! There would, naturally, have to be some sort of logic in the system to weed out bus passengers, cyclists (but not motorcyclists of course!!), pedestrians, car passengers and so on and to identify commercial drivers, taxis, emergency vehicles etc... but that can't be beyond the wit of man...(!?). You could even work out how to exempt teachers / nurses etc on their journey to work... Not impossible... just tricky... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 04:49 AM	#11
D6Ri5u13 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 561 Senior Member	I can't really see the problem. Not from bloody Tokyo, you can't! Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you but it's something else if you commute to work by car in this country. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 04:53 AM	#12
mikajuise Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 529 Senior Member	Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you... Spot on. There's no way Awooga Guy will allow anything like this to be fitted to his car. There really will be public outcry over this issue. That is all. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 05:02 AM	#13
JonDopl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	But how will they check? Buy the thing... pay the bill.... and stick it on your kids bike Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 05:59 AM	#14
GECEDEANY Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Not from bloody Tokyo, you can't! Seriously though, it's all very well supporting a proposal that won't affect you but it's something else if you commute to work by car in this country. I fully intend to be back in the UK in the next few years. Just not in Kent. As a public transport user, the changes will affect me - positively. Even for car users, the approach seen on this thread, which appears to be just burying your head in the sand (with the obvious exception of the valid technology suggestion) seems assured to bring about a worse long term result than complying with these changes. Let's hear a viable alternative if you're so against these plans... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 06:04 AM	#15
oemcheapdownload Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 373 Senior Member	They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill. This was my favourite part of the quoted text. Breaking the speed limit is OK if you do it accidentally then? I'm sure the family of a person run over by a speeding driver will be all hugs and smiles when they find out the driver wasn't concentrating on their speed and it was just an accident... Needless to say I've broken the speed limit myself, but to try and insert a sentence like the one above into your argument and be taken seriously isn't going to get you all that far... certainly not all the way to Tokyo. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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12-20-2006, 06:31 AM	#16
DrazAdwamoi Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 490 Senior Member	If socialism worked, it would have been the USA and not the USSR that fell. Not to be an asshole, but there are still a great big number of countries in the world that I would classify as socialist. Sweden for instance. Socialism and communism are not the same thing you know. By the way, how much did you pay to go to college or the university? My guess is that it was a bit more than I am paying :P Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 07:02 AM	#17
ringsarcle Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 412 Senior Member	It is terrible and damn right annoying but who's to say that other countries have heavier tax on other things to even it out? Im not happy about the fact that i have to pay £65 per month for a zone card when my bus smells, hardly turns up and the drivers are cheeky. Thanks alot First bus! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 07:44 AM	#18
Jorcelirl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 469 Senior Member	Not to be an asshole, but there are still a great big number of countries in the world that I would classify as socialist. Sweden for instance. Socialism and communism are not the same thing you know. By the way, how much did you pay to go to college or the university? My guess is that it was a bit more than I am paying :P He holds a menkyo in Mc Carthy ryu, socialists or communists, all are reds simple as that, huh Gessho. Back to the subject. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 10:05 AM	#19
Toossehew Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 365 Senior Member	[quote=Kingofmyrrh]This was my favourite part of the quoted text. Breaking the speed limit is OK if you do it accidentally then? I'm sure the family of a person run over by a speeding driver will be all hugs and smiles when they find out the driver wasn't concentrating on their speed and it was just an accident... This may come as shock to you but speeding does not always result in a fatality. speeding is however the only cause that the police profit from. The following is a quote from a website and the link is below "The latest government report on road accidents shows that less than 5% of accidents involve vehicles exceeeding the speed limit. The report ridicules the long proclaimed lie than 'one third' of accidents are caused by 'speeding'. However, many journalists are being hoodwinked by the DfT who, in summarizing the report, have grouped 'exceeding a speed limit' with 'inappropriate speed for the conditions'. The latter depends upon road and weather conditions and has nothing to do with posted speed limits. It is necessary to read the report in detail to discover the truth. " http://www.abd.org.uk/ Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-20-2006, 10:28 AM	#20
RCQDnMp5 Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	Why is the ABD against speed cameras?..do they think it's ok to break the law? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote