[BPitt]

kendo o yatteimasu / shiteimasu (I do kendo)
kendo o suru hito desu (Im someone who does kendo)

em... something like that? (you can replace kendo for aikido or iaido etc)

If you ever wore something that said something like that in Japan it would look.... uncool.

[g4YthYXx]

kendo o shiteimasu

That would be more appropriate for me

[freddystone]

Samurai is 侍. It's a Japanese word and it has a standard Japanese character. I've never heard of anyone reading a different kanji as samurai, and it makes very little sense to me that it could happen. I certainly doubt you could find many/any Japanese people who would look at 士 and think of samurai.

As for "people who do kendo", I've never really heard anything BUT kendoka in Japan, even for my students. Obviously they get the obligatory 選手 (senshu) tacked on after their names in tournaments to designate that they're "competitors", but when people express that they do kendo, at least if they're serious enough to go around expressing it to people, they just run with kendoka to my knowledge. To my knowledge, it's "professional" connotation isn't any stronger than what you'd get in English if you just said "I'm a kendo player." Note the use of the noun. "I play kendo" is more casual in English, and 剣道をやっている (kendo o yatteiru) is also more casual in Japanese.

Kenshi sounds very strange to me, probably because it's something you mostly here in period dramas. Kenshi are people who go around and fight other kenshi, or at least that's the clear impression I have.

I have no idea why the people on aiki-web have a problem with the term aikidoka, since that's what they are.

[truttyMab]

I have no idea why the people on aiki-web have a problem with the term aikidoka, since that's what they are.

I think it's because originally the ka was a professional and so that people like me who only do aiki 2-4 times a week could not consider themselves to be one. More like an amateur or an enthusiast. Same way some people don't like to say aikidoist because it implies a profession like a dentist, geologist, scientist but i think that is feckin stupid because : numerologist, philatelist, scientologist... none of which need be professions. To be honest, most of them are most uncool.
Apparently though, the "ka" has been chilled out in definition recently.. so it's ok.

thanks!

[allachakb]

Glad to hear it's chilled somewhat.

I just think if you're willing to say "I am an X", no matter what word you use, it means you're pretty serious about that X, or you wouldn't be defining yourself relative to it. Be it a career ("I am a doctor"), a religion ("I am a Christian"), or an interest ("I am a stamp collector"), it always implies you have some dedication to the thing in question.

Thus the usefulness of "I play kendo" for anyone who isn't obsessed. Though I think by posting on these boards, you may automatically lose the right to claim non-obsession.

[kmjbbT3U]

Good point!

[QEoMi752]

I think it's because originally the ka was a professional and so that people like me who only do aiki 2-4 times a week could not consider themselves to be one. More like an amateur or an enthusiast. Same way some people don't like to say aikidoist because it implies a profession like a dentist, geologist, scientist but i think that is feckin stupid because : numerologist, philatelist, scientologist... none of which need be professions. To be honest, most of them are most uncool.
Apparently though, the "ka" has been chilled out in definition recently.. so it's ok.

thanks!

Also because kendoist/aikidoist just sounds pish.

[Finkevannon]

That debate about aikidoka being one who is a professional teacher of aikido has been floating around since before aikiweb had forums. IMO it's just aikido people being a bit poncy (as often happens sadly) and indulging in some sort of snobbish sensei deification on a small level. 'I'm not an aikidoka, I couldn't be because I'm not good enough unlike a full time professional like my teacher.... see how I worked in a mention of how great my teacher is there? I'm his student don't you know. Did I mention he's great and how really very humble I am by not referring to myself as an aikidoka?'

Twats.

I asked a native Japanese speaker if it was ok to call myself an aikidoka after reading about this stuff on aikido-l, years ago. She seemed to think it was fuss over nothing and it was ok to call myself an aikidoka. Good enough for me.

Mike

[atmowasia]

I asked a native Japanese speaker if it was ok to call myself an aikidoka after reading about this stuff on aikido-l, years ago. She seemed to think it was fuss over nothing and it was ok to call myself an aikidoka. Good enough for me.

Great point. Japanese really isn't as hard and fast on a lot of these things as some people imagine.

At all the iaido shiai I've been to, the participants are called 剣士.

[Vomephems]

once you go kendo,
you dont go back...o

[alicewong]

At all the iaido shiai I've been to, the participants are called 剣士.

Really? That bit surprises me. I'm pretty sure they use the standard 選手 at all the ZNKR tournaments I've been to (admittedly only in Gifu and Toyama). I genuinely thought 剣士 was out of use.

Good to know.

[SweetCaroline]

Was 1/2 reading the Gorin-no-sho enroute to work this morning and found that it uses the term 士の道 in a very explicit term to mean the warrior classes. Its in modern Japanese, so maybe they are using the 士 to make it sound older... or maybe thats how it was written in the original... I dont know.

Since we were discussing it yesterday just thought id mention it.

-----

選手 is only used in competition. Never seen/heard of 剣士 in any competition.

Kind of related: In the Kyoto taikai all the indivual participants names are read, and the term 先生 is used.

[fhutiussk]

I certainly doubt you could find many/any Japanese people who would look at 士 and think of samurai.

I don't think that's really true. Although it obviously has many other meanings, 士 is the standard character for the warrior caste in 士農工商 . Conversely I think that samurai sounds a bit gung ho and is perhaps excessively used foreigners. I'm quite sure that it doesn't really matter though...

[GreefeWrereon]

"I'm a kendo player" .... "I play kendo"

Are you teaching your kids "play" kendo? I assume you do the same for Judo... but what about Sumo, Iaido, or Aikido? And if you dont "play Sumo" then why do you "play kendo" ?

I think a much more accurate phrase to teach the kids is "practise" (or "practice").

An easy way to teach the kids this is to say that for 武道 or 修行 related arts (including Tea Ceremony, Bonsai, Kenbu, whatever) then "practise" is more accurate. And someone who does it is a practitioner.

Many American-English speaker use "play kendo, kendo player, kendoist" whereas British-English speakers tend not to use them (thats not written in stone though). Its quite an interesting debate.

Whatdya think King-of-M?

[Percocetti]

Hmmm... I don't really care what people say, all becomes clear on the floor!

Typhoon surfing is the new shugyo!

[samanthalueus]

Hmmm... I don't really care what people say, all becomes clear on the floor!

You talk like someone that actually does kendo... ive seen no evidence in the last few years!!!

Enjoy the typhoon(s).

[SaamanthaSterlyng]

Are you teaching your kids "play" kendo? I assume you do the same for Judo... but what about Sumo, Iaido, or Aikido? And if you dont "play Sumo" then why do you "play kendo" ?

Mostly, you "play kendo" because every one of your students in the kendo club has learned that phrase backwards and forwards and is unable to change it. I think I tried teaching them practice for that, and I know I tried with Judo, etc. It never really stuck, though.

At this point, I've been here three years and all of it sounds perfectly normal to me. I expect people to play kendo, or play aikido, or play ninjitsu in the US as well.

I realized I was lost to English forever when it stopped phasing me that one of my student's dreams was to grow cows.

[Olphander]

I don't think that's really true. Although it obviously has many other meanings, 士 is the standard character for the warrior caste in 士農工商 . Conversely I think that samurai sounds a bit gung ho and is perhaps excessively used foreigners. I'm quite sure that it doesn't really matter though...

I agree that samurai is overused by foreigners. You'd probably here 武士 (bushi) as much here as samurai. But the 士 here really does mean "gentleman", in the Confucian tradition. Bushi and samurai are fairly interchangable since they both refer to martial "gentlemen". But as was mentioned before, it's also used for things like bengoshi (弁護士), lawyer, which has basically nothing to do with samurai. The conflation, I think, is that samurai were expected to be gentlemen.

It's possible it could be taken to mean about the same as samurai, but only if we're using samurai in the correct context, as a social caste and not an occupation.

[Illisezek]

Samurai is 侍. It's a Japanese word and it has a standard Japanese character. I've never heard of anyone reading a different kanji as samurai, and it makes very little sense to me that it could happen. I certainly doubt you could find many/any Japanese people who would look at 士 and think of samurai.

Since I was taught that use of 士 (as I recall derived from the sense of an exemplar of good behaviour or something) to refer to samurai instead of 侍developed in the Edo period I have to disagree.

Aden

[stoneeZef]

All I can really say to that at the moment is that my dictionary of ancient Japanese still lists the kanji in question for the verb samurabu, from which the term is derived.

It's entirely possible that the TERM samurai wasn't in general use for a while; in fact I know that it absolutely wasn't around before the end of the Heian era, meaning a fair number of the famous stories about samurai had to do with people who would have no clue what the term meant.

But I was discussing the use of the term itself, and the term is expressed with THAT kanji. Like I said before, you can say plenty of other things with 士, things that refer to people of that social class and that refer to warriors, but you can't use it to write samurai. It's just the wrong kanji. And it's not a situation like sakana (fish) being written with 魚, which is technically the wrong kanji - samurai has a clear etymology and a clear kanji for that etymology, and that kanji is well-known and well-accepted in present day Japan.