[skydaypat]

I've been involved in Kendo now for just over a year (Began at the end of march '09). I am very new, and I understand very little, especially in the way of how Kendo was applied to actual fighting. With this in mind, I'd like to ask you guys a very strange question. I've been asked to make a kenshi style character in the RPG game "Dragon Age: Origins". I tried my best to make the progression of the combat skills accurate to life, but with such little knowledge I have no way of knowing without asking others. If no one can make this out to actual real-life affects, I understand. Just figured I'd give it a shot to anyone kind enough to throw their two cents in. Without further adieu, have at it.

Stances(passive abilities; get these and they apply to your character as long as they are active):

1: Chuudan no Kamae: sustained stance, no stamina cost, prevents use of armor, only usable while wielding a single weapon. Slows attack speed to 40% of base, increases critical chance to 60%, increases all

damage by 10%.

2: Gedan no Kamae: Sustained stance, no stamina cost, prevents use of armor, only usable while wielding a single weapon. Decreases attack speed to 20% of base, increases critical chance to 60%, increases

damage by 10%, increases defense by 25.

3: Joudan no Kamae: Sustained stance, no stamina cost, prevents use of armor, only usable while wielding a single weapon. Increases attack speed to 120% of base, increases critical chance to 60%, increases

all damage by 10%, sets defense to 0.

4: Still Mind: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of fighting in all stances slightly. Chuudan no Kamae: +10% base attack speed, +4% critical chance, +5% damage bonus. Gedan no Kamae: increases defense

by an additional 15 points. Joudan no Kamae: +15% base attack speed, +4% critical chance, +5% damage bonus. (Only changed stats are noted here.)

Proficiency Feats(grants the character bonuses to passive statistics):*

1: Shodan: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of stances slightly.
Chuudan: +10% speed, +5% all damage
Gedan: +5% all damage, +5 defense
Joudan: +5% speed, +5% all damage
Kiai: -5 seconds from cooldown.

2: Dan: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of stances to a greater degree.
Chuudan:+15% speed, +5% crit chance, +15% all damage
Gedan: +5% crit chance, +15% all damage, +10 defense
Joudan: +15% speed, +5% crit chance, +15% all damage
Kiai: -10 from stamina cost, +20% stamina regeneration.
Debana:+10 seconds to duration.

3: Shogo: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of stances thuroughly.
Chuudan:+5% speed, +15% crit chance, +30% all damage
Gedan: +15% crit chance, +30% all damage, +15 defense
Joudan: +20% speed, +15% crit chance, +30% all damage
Kiai: +5 seconds to duration, + 5 to defense debuff, + 5 to attack debuff.
Debana: +10% chance of scoring an attack against a foe.

4: Kensei: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of stances supremely.
Chuudan:-15% speed, +35% crit chance, +50% all damage
Gedan: +35% crit chance, +50% all damage, +25 defense
Joudan: +30% speed, +35% crit chance, +50% all damage
Kiai: +10 seconds to duration, + 15 to defense debuff, +15 to attack debuff, +50% to stamina regeneration.
Debana:Target independant; Any foe, making any attack against you triggers Debana.

*:All benefits are cumulative as proficiency becomes stronger.

Active abilities(use them during real time fighting):

1: Kiai: Active ability, 30 second cooldown, 30 stamina, 10 second duration. Decreases hostile defense by 10, decreases hostile attack by 5.

2: Zanshin: Active ability, 60 second cooldown, 50 stamina, 15 second duration. Increases damage by 5%, when one opponant is killed, get a free attack on the next immediately, as long as they are within 10

meters.

3: Katsugi: Active ability, 40 second cooldown, 30 stamina. Increases chance to hit to 95% on next attack.

4: Debana: Active ability, 120 second cooldown, 60 stamina, 10 second duration. Every attack your targeted foe makes against you gives you a 50% chance of making an automatic attack against them.

For example, a character who has earned the kensei rank ends up with these modifiers:
While in...
Chuudan: 55% attack speed, +115% chance to score a critical strike, +110% all damage.
Gedan: 20% attack speed, +115% chance to score a critical strike, +110% all damage, +80 defense
Joudan: 190% attack speed, +115% chance to score a critical strike, +110% all damage

Their other abilities would be acting thusly:
1: Kiai: 25 second cool down, 20 stamina to activate, 25 second duration, -30 to defense of all opponents in area, -25 attack of all opponents in area, regenerate stamina 50% faster.
2: Zanshin: As original.
3: Katsugi: As original.
4: Debana: 120 second cool down, 60 stamina to activate, 20 second duration, if anyone attacks you while this is active, you have a 100% chance of attacking them before they are able to strike you.

Take into consideration that this is a system based off of western melee fighting, so I had to take some liberties while trying to apply Kendo to it. Also, I was trying to fit a large number of potential waza into a small pool of possible skills. As long as the class feels like a kenshi when you play it, I will be happy.

Sorry for the odd request, but felt as though this was probably the best place to ask.

[Kthzltje]

Ahh, sorry. under Still Mind the description should read:
4: Still Mind: Passive ability, improves effectiveness of fighting in all stances slightly. Chuudan no Kamae/Joudan no kamae: +10% base attack speed, +5% critical chance, +5% damage bonus. Gedan no Kamae: +20 defense.

[flower-buy]

Very... thorough. Why do all your stances "prevent use of armour"? That makes no sense.

[sadgpokx]

It is an inaccuracy that is necessary due to technical issues. If there was a character who was able to get all of these bonuses in addition to the bonuses of wearing full plate mail armor he would be far more powerful than required. I was thinking I might reduce some of the ability benefits so I can allow them to wear some armor. I'm uncertain of how that would affect the game play though. I'll need to test it.

[Mehntswx]

This is a lot of detail!

I'd think there would still be some stamina loss when in chudan or jodan. Try standing in these kamae for an extended period of time and it's bound to get tiring.

[Turbo-ip]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think I should try to write a program that distinguishes between certain armors based on how heavy they are and allow some, and disallow others. Ontop of this, I will cut back on some of the abilities granted. It will be a lot of work that I was hoping to avoid, but your reaction showed me how important it was. Thank you for your response.

One thing I was worried about was, if you notice in the proficiency skills, at the shodan and dan levels, attack speed increases drastically while it slows during shogo and kensei levels. I tried to do this to reflect how young fighters will be much more aggressive and try to strike a higher number of times, while a more experienced fighter will wait and strike one time perfectly. I'm unsure of the progression speed, and numbers though. Also, is this reflected the same way in a real fight? I don't see why it wouldn't be, but it is a possibility.

[Manteiv]

This is a lot of detail!

I'd think there would still be some stamina loss when in chudan or jodan. Try standing in these kamae for an extended period of time and it's bound to get tiring.

That is a good point. Thank you for the response. I will see if I can implement some way to slowly drain stamina while these are active.

[Kragh]

Hmm...just had an idea. In Joudan I try to emulate the quicker striking by decreasing the time between attacks in the game. This doesn't work because in real life, you attack once, while in the game, I'm trying to emulate that same ammount of damage done quickly by striking several times in a short period. The problem is that each time an enemy is attacked, it runs a calculation taking defense (chance to block or dodge) and armor into account for each hit. In real life, it would only give you one chance to dodge, and your armor would only mitigate the damage of one strike. I think what I will do instead is set the attack speed of Joudan to slightly less than the attack speed of Chuudan. This is meant to emulate how Joudan fighters are less inclined to strike as many times as Chuudan fighters because it drains their stamina more quickly to bring the blade all the way back up to their heads immediately. I will emulate the bonus of Joudan, the halving the time it takes to strike an opponent from first moving, by breaking it down to what it actually means. In real life, this helps you because your opponent has half the time to block or dodge a strike coming from a joudan fighter. So I will emulate this by giving Joudan fighters in the game bonuses to their chance of hitting an opponant, bypassing their chance of blocking and dodging (defense), but making armor still be applicable.

[Caluabdum]

The revised Joudan progression will look like this:
Joudan no Kamae: Sustained stance, no stamina cost, prevents use of armor, only usable while wielding a single weapon. Decreases attack speed to 35% of base, increases critical chance to 60%, increases all damage by 10%, increases attack (chance to hit) by 25% sets defense to 0.

1: Shodan:
Joudan: +5% speed, +5% all damage
2: Dan:
Joudan: +5% attack, +10% speed, +5% crit chance, +15% all damage
3: Shogo:
Joudan: +10% attack, +5% speed, +15% crit chance, +30% all damage
4:Kensei:
Joudan: +20% attack, -20% speed, +35% crit chance, +50% all damage

This means at the kensei level, the Joudan fighter will attack at 35% of base speed, and have a 60% greater ability to successfully hit opponents over Chuudan and Gedan users.

[XzBZB2UV]

Interesting idea. So you are using some kind of editor to create this, like the editing tools for Oblivion/Morrowind, The Witcher, and such? I would love to play this kind of class in-game. I do agree, though, Jodan especially should have some sort of stamina loss while using it. My buddy does Jodan and he said one of the things he had to get used to was holding the shinai over his head for so long.

Also, no Nito?! You should definitely work that in later :-D.

And yes, a script to distinguish between armor would be good. Maybe something up to a "medium" type armor (not sure where that line would be drawn in this game". I can see your point for having heavy armor + all of these bonuses would make your character way Over-powered.

[jerzeygymwolf]

Interesting idea. So you are using some kind of editor to create this, like the editing tools for Oblivion/Morrowind, The Witcher, and such? I would love to play this kind of class in-game.

Yes, here is a link to a brief description and a video. http://dragonage.bioware.com/toolset/

I do agree, though, Jodan especially should have some sort of stamina loss while using it. My buddy does Jodan and he said one of the things he had to get used to was holding the shinai over his head for so long.

After looking through the scripting from the ability files (programmed in java) I found it'll be fairly simple to have a stamina drain type affect on the stances. I think the values will be Chuudan: 0.5 stamina/second, Joudan: 1 stamina/second, gedan: 0.7 stamina/second. Do you think this is good, or does it need work?

Also, no Nito?! You should definitely work that in later :-D.

Not in the beginning. Once i have this figured out, I will try to figure something out for Nito. It will be extremely difficult because dual wielding in the game is already very overpowered. It is hard coded that both weapons are used for offense so a workaround will be very time-consuming. What I might be able to do is trick the engine into temporarily thinking that a weapon is a shield type item and give that item defense (dodge/parry) properties instead of an armor bonus. Then, for offense, I can have it just basic Joudan as in Ito. This might be the best I can do though. We'll see.

And yes, a script to distinguish between armor would be good. Maybe something up to a "medium" type armor (not sure where that line would be drawn in this game". I can see your point for having heavy armor + all of these bonuses would make your character way Over-powered.

After looking through the tool set, the armor weights do have distinction in the programming. They are separated into robes/light/medium/heavy/massive. I'm thinking I'll make up to medium available. This still allows decent armor without the possibility of anything too crazy.

[Toscoropreark]

Why does Japanese swordsmanship make a character so much more powerful than any other style that you must limit armour?

[PypeMaypetasy]

Why does Japanese swordsmanship make a character so much more powerful than any other style that you must limit armour?

That's a very good point, there are several reasons that don't make much (or any) sense in real life. Believe it or not, it's nothing new. There's a game that was made in 1998 that had a character class titled "kensai" (I couldn't stand it, I changed it to simply "kenshi") that prevented the use of any armor, and even going as far as preventing the use of gloves just because of their class. The whole reasoning behind it is essentially this: The object of the games is leading parties of fighters into combat situations and commanding them so they come out alive. Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, and that is why it's fun. Due to how the game is programmed, if you make someone as proficient at killing able to wear armor which (in the game) makes them unable to be attacked by much, there's not much point. You're just running around stabbing people mindlessly without any strategy or thinking. Also because the movements in kendo would be very difficult to do in heavy armor. Imagine keiko while wearing a hot, sweaty, 50 lb. suit of plate mail that limits flexibility. You'd never perform nearly as well as someone in their keikogi and hakama. Due to how the game works, I can't really program it to make your skills diminish when you wear armor, so I figured I'd just prevent using it all together.

[KuevDulin]

it'll be fairly simple to have a stamina drain type affect on the stances. I think the values will be Chuudan: 0.5 stamina/second, Joudan: 1 stamina/second, gedan: 0.7 stamina/second. Do you think this is good, or does it need work?

As for me the fatigue list would go like this: jodan, chudan, gedan.

[Buyemae]

I'll try to translate this to real life. If I make Joudan use 1 stamina/sec, Chuudan use 0.5 stamina/sec and Gedan use 0.4 stamina/sec, then it will be as the following:

An absolute beginner with average stamina will be able to stay in Joudan for 50 seconds before becoming exhausted. In Chuudan, they could maintain it for 100 seconds. They could stay in Gedan for 125 seconds. Do you think this is about right? Or does it need extra tweaking?

[jhfsdhf]

Very cool idea, is this something that you can package up and offer online, like a mod for morrowind/oblivion/fallout? I have no experience with designing these types of things myself, but I would definitely love to try it out in game if/when you complete the character class!

[botagozzz]

As long as you own Dragon Age, yes you can download and install it freely and easily. I'll be hosting it on Bioware's social site, and Dragon Age Nexus once I'm finished.

[GeorgeEckland]

Well I just scrap the ability to wear heavy armor, but get rid of the no armor penalty in kamae. A kendoka wears light armor... leather and cloth.. maybe some bamboo, but that's it. No metal.

And all kamae should use stamina. I like the stamina per second idea.

make it different from the warrior classes by not focussing on strength but more on dexterity and stamina in general.

And yes, Nito would be awesome. To go with game mechanics, you could just use the daggers for the kodachi.

I like all the active abilities!

Maybe add a sustained "Bogu Smell" abilty which gives an aura that increases the miss chance of opponents

And a steel mind tree... (you know how rogues have stealth etc), for Kendoka, a steel mind tree you'd get extra resistances to all magic schools and higher resistance to poisons etc. Especially good though against mind control etc.

And yeah I'd totally download that class

[lrUyiva1]

As long as you own Dragon Age, yes you can download and install it freely and easily. I'll be hosting it on Bioware's social site, and Dragon Age Nexus once I'm finished.

Awesome! I'll definitely be looking for it when you are done. You should PM me when it's all ready to go!

make it different from the warrior classes by not focussing on strength but more on dexterity and stamina in general.

Very good idea! And it fits well with Kendo, in my opinion. From what I've seen in my limited experience, strength takes a backseat to speed, form, and strategy.

Maybe add a sustained "Bogu Smell" abilty which gives an aura that increases the miss chance of opponents

Call it "Warrior's Aura"

And a steel mind tree...

Yes! That could include abilities [Sustained or Passive) such as Heijoshin and Mushin.

[Juersdodfs]

Will this class you are making only work on the PC version of the game, not the 360 version?