[Rounteetepehryn]

Hi all!

I´d like to start by this question: How many years of Kendo practice is "normal" to get to sho-dan?
The reason I´m asking is that looking back at many years of kendo practice, I find that progress has been getting slower and slower. There are some reasons for this, for periods I have been unable to practice properly etc. Recently I failed sho-dan grading for the second time. Not by much, but still it was failure.
My sensei - which I respect very much - keep telling me that a) the time it takes is different for everyone and that it may take as long as it does for me and b) do not compare yourself to other people´s progress. This is probably true, but if I´m this far from having any natural talent, I´m considering switching to another sport.

Any thoughts?

-Yorick

[searkibia]

I don't have any better answer than your sensei. There are so many variables that will determine how fast people progress in any given activity. If you switch to something else, there's no guarantee you'll progress any faster in that sport. At the end of the day, do you enjoy it?

[Ekzamenov]

How many years have you been practicing?
How often do you train? (A) in the dojo (B) at home
Do you know why you've failed shodan twice? Was it for the same reasons?

[Penisvergroesserung]

Depends where you are Yorick. I'm guessing you practice in Germany, or somewhere with similar ridiculously high standards for shodan?

[lomonel]

Years of practice: If I subtract the time I have been unable to practice reasonably undisturbed, 7-8 years. Total time span: 10 1/2 years. I train almost exclusively in the dojo. Basic reason for failure at the first attempt: Disenergized from a hectic period at work plus no real good hit during keiko. At second attempt: Not good enough ki-ken-tai-ichi, not varied enough attack styles. So no, not for the same reasons.

[Accecyncphory]

I don´t want to be too obvious, but I´m based in Scandinavia. The jury at the latest attempt can be described as pan-European.

[Saduyre9de]

... if I´m this far from having any natural talent, I´m considering switching to another sport.

Do you do kendo for the menjo or because you enjoy kendo?

[bMc8F9ZI]

Whether it´s enjoyable or not is a really good question. When practice is at its best it´s good fun. I haven´t been much for the competitive side of the sport, but recently competition has begun to feel attractive.
And you´re perfectly right about progress in other sports. But: I could choose another activity. I have tried yoga and really liked it. From an exercise and fitness point of view, it would be more all-round.

To put it bluntly: I feel a bit pathetic. I see a lot of people who have entered the sport later than me and now have passed me.

[Mister.levitra]

Nebosuke:
Thank you for your reply, but please explain "menjo"??

[courlerwele]

Wraith:
One more reason during latest attempt: Subtle nervosity. I could feel my nervous system tingling. Maybe I wanted it too much.

[Lypepuddyu]

I don't know whether or not you have any talent but, if you train exclusively in the dojo and do not practice any at home, then you better be at the dojo often. Otherwise, your progress will naturally be very slow. Especially when it comes to shiai or shinsa, it's going to be very difficult to strike with good kikentaiichi when you have, comparatively speaking, very little practice time with a partner.

For my part, I've also progressed slowly but, kendo is fun to me and I like the people I practice with so the rest doesn't matter much to me. It's ok to feel discouraged, I think everyone goes through this feeling at times. As long as you still enjoy kendo, I think you should just try to work through this stage.

Regarding test anxiety, that's pretty normal for people to experience. Deep breathing has a calming effect or maybe try warming up extra hard to get rid of the nervous feeling. Although, the best way to stay calm is to train hard so that you have some confidence in your abilities.

[IRYzouNv]

Nebosuke:
Thank you for your reply, but please explain "menjo"??

The certificate you get after passing a ranking exam.

I realize it must be personally frustrating to feel that your progress is slow, and possibly give you anxiety as those around you move past you in rank. I was asking if you enjoy kendo and get other benefits from it. A menjo means that you were able to display what a panel believes is a level of competency. What a menjo doesn’t reflect is what you’ve gotten out of kendo.

You mention not having natural talent for kendo. Sure some people are naturally athletic, some are natural competitors, and a few are both. But natural talent can pose problems further down the line. When things come easy at first, you don’t learn how to put in the hard work to make progress when you hit that wall, and natural talent will only take you so far. There is always a wall to hit. And then another.

So, is kendo for you, or is it something you tired and ultimately didn’t care for? The only right answer is your own.

[GeorgeEckland]

I don't know whether or not you have any talent but, if you train exclusively in the dojo and do not practice any at home, then you better be at the dojo often. Otherwise, your progress will naturally be very slow. Especially when it comes to shiai or shinsa, it's going to be very difficult to strike with good kikentaiichi when you have, comparatively speaking, very little practice time with a partner.

Of course you have a point. My normal practice frequency is twice a week. Strange thing is, just *before* practice I had the impression that kikentaiichi worked just fine, even heard so from my sempai...

For my part, I've also progressed slowly but, kendo is fun to me and I like the people I practice with so the rest doesn't matter much to me. It's ok to feel discouraged, I think everyone goes through this feeling at times. As long as you still enjoy kendo, I think you should just try to work through this stage.

Thanks. I have had that attitude previously, nothing wrong with that. I think two philosophies conflict here: Since kendo is so much a competitive sport, is it "right" to practice it just for the enjoyment of it, but not working so much on progress?

Regarding test anxiety, that's pretty normal for people to experience. Deep breathing has a calming effect or maybe try warming up extra hard to get rid of the nervous feeling. Although, the best way to stay calm is to train hard so that you have some confidence in your abilities.

I did warm up fairly aggressively just before grad. This was specifically to blow off excess energy which I knew could be a problem. Confidence....actually, I have to consider that. Maybe just more routine could help there.

[MzTT]

10 years? Which federation?

*edit* I missed the Scandinavia post. nvm

[mincarlie.frymyer]

10 years to shodan sounds like sandbagging at an institutional level. What the fuck.

[zlopikanikanzax]

10 years to shodan sounds like sandbagging at an institutional level. What the fuck.

I think that's an unfair accusation to make since we really have no idea what Yorick's ability is or even what is normal for shodans in his region. Yorick also didn't mention how often he trains, and that's a critical factor here.

Yorick, you mentioned that you recently feel more interested in competing. I think this might become good motivation to make you want to practice more. Personally, I always hated jigeiko. I'm bad at it, I don't understand what I'm doing and never win. I've been doing kendo for a little over 3 years now and only lately however, some ideas are starting to make sense to me. It makes me more eager to try jigeiko in our practices and to compete in tournaments.

[fedelwfget]

Wraith:
One more reason during latest attempt: Subtle nervosity. I could feel my nervous system tingling. Maybe I wanted it too much.

I think it would be a crying shame if you kicked it in the head after giving 7-10 years worth of training to this. That shows that you have dedication (even if your dojo participation may be sporadic), you obviously enjoy Kendo; keep on going! Relax, and you'll get there! You've got to believe that you are already Shodan and all you are doing is displaying this to the panel.

Oh, and one other piece of advice: PRACTICE AT HOME

[chuecafresss]

Talent does not exist. Hours in the dojo and how you practice is what counts.
I am a Scandinavian myself, swedish to be exact, and most people pass shodan within 3 years of training. I would guess the other scandinavian countries are similar, but I really have no clue.

However, this is of course relative to the amount you train, and how often. If you don't practice regularly with continuity there is a high chance you will keep failing your exams.

Other people are passing you most likely because they are practicing more often and regularly.

That said, I just want to reiterate what others have said: Things will work out eventually if you just keep practising.

[freevideoandoicsI]

As a lot of olks have said regular practice with continuity is key. If succeeding at shodan is THAT important to you you have to make the time and effort to achieve it. In my forst four years I achieved ni-kyu but was not bothered about grading and then took 9 years off. When returning I realised ni-kyu was not good enough and when you say "ni-kyu" with bogu on everyone thinks you've said "ikkyu2 and then it becomes embarrassing to try and downgrade yourself.

Shodan/nidan at least offers certain advantages when it comes to seminars so I understand where you are coming from. I practice once a week and I accept some may advance ahead of me and those of lesser experience [I've over 8 years under my belt] are better skilled and more clued up in jigeiko but I have to work with what I've got.

If shodan means so much then go for it, give it all you can. Keep at it as regardless of what you think you are doing you have shown many years committment to your dojo and they would rather see you there and taking part whatever grade you are than give it up. Maybe a quiet discussion with your Sensei would help focus you on what needs addressing.

[dodsCooggipsedebt]

I failed my sandan exam three times, and I began to wonder what the heck was wrong with me. As I talked to more people about it, I found that almost everyone who had been at it for a decade or more had hit a wall at some point. Hearing about their experiences, and eventual success, gave me encouragement.

What worked for me was changing the way I practiced. I was still doing the same drills, but with a different goal and feeling in my mind. I rededicated myself to improving my posture, footwork, and swing, through suburi in front of a mirror. I approached every match like it was my sandan exam, and tried to enforce upon myself strict reliance on fundamentals to deal with my opponent, no matter what they were throwing at me. I forced myself to strike only when I felt very sure I had a good opportunity, and not just swing and hope. At first it seemed like I was going backwards for a while because I got hit a lot more, but along the way I started making better quality hits, with fewer failed attempts. I also gained a new appreciation of the subtleties of maai. Eventually I recovered confidence in my ability to learn, and improve.

Yorick, Kendo isn't for everyone, but if it is something you enjoy, and it has a beneficial effect on your life, keep at it. Getting stuck happens to a lot of us, and it can be overcome with a generous application of guts and fortitude. A certain amount of struggling is good for us, and succeeding despite setbacks is inspirational for others and for ourselves. My feeling is that quitting one endeavor because of a temporary setback is not a good way to set oneself up for success in the next endeavor. Some day you may become very seriously challenged by life events, and you may have to depend the self confidence you gained from seeing struggles like this through. Best of luck to you. Ganbatte!