[tramadoldiscountes]

if you're playing on a relatively weaker team..
stack the jiho, fukusho and senpo with your strongest players to beat their weaker ones.. and then throw away your weak players to their stronger ones? We do this sometimes. But the best thing is all to win

[clapsoewmred]

It probably depends on the tournament. The ones I've gone to, the order is choosen and stays that way.

[surefireinvest]

I sometimes think that the ability to add up is one of the most important qualities in a good team shiai player.


Senpoh
0/0 - Even. No need to consider what the score is because it will always be the same. Doesn't require any ability to adapt to different situations.
Less pressure to set the tone than jihoh. "Solid worker" type position. So, a lazy person needs to be placed elsewhere?

Chuken
Can be very important as this is the first position where victory can be decided. There is never the luxury of having already won.
Victory can be decided in various positions.

Fukushoh
Many different meaningful possibilities so you need to be able to count as Kirin-san pointed out.

Interestingly there are more situations where you will be called on to decide victory or loss than for taisho
All positions have meaningful possiblities. All positions can decide victory or loss which varies depending on the team you are going against.

Taishoh
Funnily enough, on the face of it as taishoh the chances are that the result will already have been decided by the time you have to compete. The pressure is intense though if you have do either play for victory or to avoid defeat.
Usually doesn't know what's going on except for after-party details.

Daihyou
MUST WIN
If everyone else blew it, then, he can relax.

That was interesting. See my notes in red above.

[bug_user]

Great post. usually a "strategy" doesn't turn out to bring the expected result. As a coach/member on many occasions we won sometimes and lost plenty. But the bottom line is that it all depends on the team "chemistry" like Martsen sensei said. On that day, do you have the balls to trust the one who says "today I will win" and can you detect who's had a bad night and will throw up before his match? I've learned that team matches are occasions to learn more about/from your buddies rather than focus on gold. On the very rare cases where all necessary factors coincide you might be lucky and win.

Eddy

[jojocomok]

my ultimate strategy..
if you're playing on a relatively weaker team..
stack the jiho, fukusho and senpo with your strongest players to beat their weaker ones.. and then throw away your weak players to their stronger ones?
haha

but if their weaker ones happens to be playing really well, and forced a hiki-wake, or even win, then you're in a bit of strife.

nonetheless, it's a sensible strategy though. provided you know their team lineup. but then what if they know that you'll be doing that, and change their line up? then you'll have to hope that you know that they know. but what if they know that you know that they know?

[pharweqto]

I just noticed this thread, and I've been thinking about this a bit recently (read: today) so I hope nobody minds the bump.

I sometimes think that the ability to add up is one of the most important qualities in a good team shiai player.
Chuken

Starting scenarios

2/0 - strong advantage (can decide victory)

0/2 - strong disadvantage (must not lose)

1/0 - advantage

0/1 - disadvantage

1/1 or 0/0 - even (depends on honsuh)

[...]

decide win situations - 1
decide loss situations -1

[...]

Interestingly there are more situations where you will be called on to decide victory or loss than for taisho

The problem here is that you're assuming that all these outcomes are equally likely. They're not; for instance, a tie is three times more likely than being two ahead, since it can result from 1/2-1/2 and 1/2-1/2, 1-0 and 0-1, as well as 0-1 and 1-0.

I've calculated out the chances of deciding the game assuming that each of the 243 outcomes of a team match are equally likely (I don't know how accurate this is; perhaps ties are much rarer than scoring points, but let's go with it for now...). On average:

Chūken is in a position to win or lose the match 7.4% of the time.
Fukushou is in a position to win or lose 29.6% of the time.
Taishou is in a position to win, lose, or tie the match 63.0% of the time.
Obviously, jihou and senpou are never in such a position.

Obviously this doesn't speak to any of the psychological issues involved but if (and admittedly this is the weakest assumption here) my math is correct, fukushou, on average, decides the outcome of the match fully four times more often than chūken. That may be something to take into account when deciding how crucial each position is relative to the others.

[new-nickname-zanovo]

Loved this thread, I´ll post when I make my mind up :s

[DonnyKong]

i never realized there can be so much math involved in kendo, and to think that I thought pool (geometry, trigonometry) was fun.

here's my strategy for team competition. .. Kick the other teams A$$. every man for themselves.

[Dreaming]

Consider this possibility

Team 1 : 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D ( D: Dan K: Kyu )
Team 2 : 2K, 1K, 2D, 3D, 4D

Not even a prayer ha?

Then again

Team 1 : 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D
Team 2 : 2D, 3D, 4D, 1K, 2K

This is interesting match to say the least and Team 2 has a good chance of winning.

Comments anyone? Have you ever try to guess the lineup of the other team?

[AlexBrith]

In my experience of competing in and watching many adult team competitions in Japan, line-up is commonly soley decided on AGE. Youngest first. (Kids shiai are another matter)

The best team comp ive been in is the Mumeishi 3s (not in Japan) which is interesting because you must have a kyu grade and its generally this person that can make or break the win.

[pupyississido]

Does anybody knows what the names of the kenshi (sempo, jiho, etc) means literally?? And how are their kanji??

In my dojo, we are thinking to do some tenugui, with the kanji of each position. But i can´t find it on Google.

Great thread!!

...and sorry for my english. Its been a while since the last time I wrote something in this language.

[Ettiominiw]

先鋒, 次鋒, 中堅, 副将, 大将

Found this thread while poking around. Thought it may be good link these 2 threads together.

ps: just finished the Bamboo Blade series. Love it.