[avavavava]

Hello everyone

I am fairly new to this site although i have had a strong interest in Buddhism for some time.

I just wondered how many of you had taken refuge and at what point you had decided to do this?

Did you use it as a catalyst to progress further in your studies? And i wondered how you found the experience.

Thanks

Jenny

[irrascaft]

Hi Jenny,

I had already considered myself to be a Buddhist and was investigating Tibetan Buddhism, (I hadn't realised that there were other Buddhist traditions too) when I was advised to take Refuge with the head of a Tibetan lineage/school.

The ceremony took place at a large crowded venue filled with lay people and many more Tibetan Buddhist monks than I had ever seen before. To be truthful, I was more overawed by the visuals and the sounds, and the sight of the head of lineage who was said to have special powers, than having much thought of what I was actually doing. It didn't feel very personal either, because there were so many of us taking Refuge at the same time, and it was all done in Tibetan.

So I think that my private recitations at my home shrine were probably more effective for me in the sense of being inspired and attuned to what I was actually saying and doing.

I now practice with the Theravada Forest tradition, but its still important to me to recite the Refuge every day .

with kind wishes,

Aloka-D-Aloka

[triardwonvada]

Thanks Aloka-D

It is useful to hear other peoples experiences

[LoveTTatall]

I have taken refuge in an informal way in the tradition I have chosen, the Soto Zen. The refuge has been found in the meditation practice that is highly encouraged by this tradition. Being here I have found refuge in the study and reflection given by the teachings of the historical Buddha left in the Canon Pali. This late experience has been very liberating because it has given me a more accurate perspective and focused on what the Buddha teachings are about. The cultural add-ons are beautifull airtfacts and nice addornments but not of central importance for the practice of the teachings of the historical Buddha.

I still go to the dojo merely to practice meditation because the guidance given by the Roshi and attend from time to time some teishos, while keeping a healthy distance with what are ceremonies, rites, etc,. Some books tell about taking refuge in the sangha members but I have found much more realistic and meaningful to take refuge in the way I have taken it.

[Nifoziyfar]

I have never attended a Buddhist ceremony. I recited the Pali words of refuge to myself some years ago, in private and alone, just to try it out (and also in the hope that it might reduce suffering), a number of times, on a number of occasions. That is all.

I have always been more interested in the concepts of Buddhism and have never had a great leaning towards ceremony. But, to each their own.

[AlexanderDrew]

I had already considered myself to be a Buddhist and was investigating Tibetan Buddhism, (I hadn't realised that there were other Buddhist traditions too) when I was advised to take Refuge with the head of a Tibetan lineage/school.

The ceremony took place at a large crowded venue filled with lay people and many more Tibetan Buddhist monks than I had ever seen before. To be truthful, I was more overawed by the visuals and the sounds, and the site of the head of lineage who was said to have special powers, than having much thought of what I was actually doing. It didn't feel very personal either, because there were so many of us taking Refuge at the same time, and it was all done in Tibetan.

So I think that my private recitations at my home shrine were probably more effective for me in the sense of being inspired and attuned to what I was actually saying and doing.

I now practice with the Theravada Forest tradition, but its still important to me to recite the Refuge every day .

with kind wishes,

I have never attended a Buddhist ceremony. I recited the words of refuge to myself some years ago, in private and alone, just to try it out (and also in the hope that it might reduce suffering), a number of times, on a number of occasions. That is all.

I have always been more interested in the concepts of Buddhism and have never had a great leaning towards ceremony. But, to each their own.

Nice thread!

I thought I was alone being so informal about my tradition...

[pGJLweEw]

I thought I was alone being so informal about my tradition

You and me, Kaarine ...

[Theorsell]

You and me, Kaarine ...

Somehow I suspected it Snowmelt... :hug:

[ChebuRAtoR]

I just wondered how many of you had taken refuge and at what point you had decided to do this?

I studied Tibetan Buddhism for some time before going along to a refuge ceremony. At the last minute I bottled out (as did a few others). A few weeks later, I wished I hadn't (as did a few others) so the head monk arranged a small ceremony for us. It was a very quiet, deeply spiritual moment in my life. That was over twenty years ago.
Nowadays, I rarely recite anything anymore. I don't need to tell myself I'm a Buddhist, I just am. I meditate when I can and I'm very glad I did take refuge, although I've drifted away from belonging to any school.

[pageup85]

My story is similar to srivijava's ..... took refuge publically in a small ceremony many years ago .... the whole period of time around this action and decision and changes I made due to the act holds significance to me. It wasn't about belonging to a particular school or tradition then or now ... find all that stuff tedious

[unsamiSlini]

I don't even think about taking refuge anymore; that's just the way my mind is. The way things are is how they are.

[Mowselelex]

I don't even think about taking refuge anymore; that's just the way my mind is. The way things are is how they are.

It is great to be resolved like this. And about refuges and traditions, just want to share a Zen story I really like:

"In modern times a great deal of nonsense is talked about masters and disciples, and about the inheritance of a master's teaching by favourite pupils, entitling them to pass the truth on to their adherents. Of course Zen should be imparted in this way, from hart to hart and in the past it was really accomplished. Silence and humility reigned rather than profession and assertion. The one who received such a teaching kept the matter hidden even after twenty years. Now until another discovered through his own need that a real master was at hand was it learned that the teaching had been imparted, and even then the occasion arose quite naturally and the teaching made its way in its own right. Under no circumstance did the teacher even claim "I am the successor of So-and-so". Such claim would prove quite the contrary.

The Zen master Mu-nan had only one successor. His name was Shoju. After Shoju had completed his study of Zen, Mu-nan called him into his room. "I am getting old", he said, "and as far as I know, Shoju, you are the only one you who will carry on this teaching. Here is a book. It has been passed down from master to master for seven generations. I also have added many points according to my understanding. The book is very valuable and I am getting it to you to represent your successorship."

"If the book is such an important thing, you had better keep it", Shoju replied. "I received your Zen without writing and I am satisfied with it as it is."

"I know that," said Mu-nan. Even so, this work has been carried from master to master for seven generations, so you may kept it as a symbol of having received the teaching. Here."

The two happened to be talking before a brazier. The instant Shoju felt the book in his hands he thrust it into the flaming coals. He had no lost for possessions. Mu-nan, who had never been angry before, yelled: "What are you doing!"

Shoju shouted back: "What are you saying!"

Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.

[heilyprollecyspor]

Nice.

[BlackBird]

I had a fortunate experience taking refuge, both times. The first time I had seven monks who were staying at my house as they traveled through town. I asked the Geshe to provide a refuge ceremony for me and he did. It was very private and special. He explained what it all meant and gave me the precepts. As a gift for my refuge the monks even gave me a thangka of Buddha Shakyamuni. The second time I took refuge with my vajra guru and it was a very small group of 25 people. It was all in Tibetan but I had the general idea and was very pleased with it. It was then that I received my refuge name. I still take refuge nearly daily in front of my shrine and every time it is meaningful.

Best,
Laura

[qzgCVHex]

The instant Shoju felt the book in his hands he thrust it into the flaming coals. He had no lost for possessions. Mu-nan, who had never been angry before, yelled: "What are you doing!"

Shoju shouted back: "What are you saying!"

Shoju shouldn't have done that should he? I mean burning a valuable book of that kind in which his master had made notes? Or perhaps it never really happened in the first place and it's just another Zen koan which will forever embed itself in my mind, torturing me with its play of opposites... never to be resolved.

The second time I took refuge with my vajra guru and it was a very small group of 25 people. It was all in Tibetan but I had the general idea and was very pleased with it. Thanks for sharing Laura. It sounds very nice indeed.

namaste
kris

[sandyphoebetvmaa]

Shoju shouldn't have done that should he? I mean burning a valuable book of that kind in which his master had made notes? Or perhaps it never really happened in the first place and it's just another Zen koan which will forever embed itself in my mind, torturing me with its play of opposites... never to be resolved.

Every time I read this story I have that same feeling about never throwing away a book; I love and appreciate books. But the context given at the beginning of the story leads, at least for me, to another lecture of it. Zen encourages a direct realization, a direct understanding, almost a kind of silent knowledge. It is important to read carfully one of the lines of reasoning Shoju is giving when he tells his master that IF he founds so valuable HIS book then it is good to keep it anytime Shoju has realized the path and there is no need for such a book also for the transmission of Dhamma. This points to certain level of understanding and recalls about attachments to traditions, gurus, and the like. It is not about burning books as some dictators have done in history of humankind.

just another Zen koan which will forever embed itself in my mind, torturing me with its play of opposites... never to be resolved.

I am not too eager about koans. I don't like them too much. I prefere to sit. But koans are that. They lead to understand the torture of being caught in the play of opposites as we are, [unconsciously?],in day to day life and to become mindful and to still our mind so mindfulness will arise by itself. People highly intellectual gets easily caught into the koan and experiences mind torture. So through them you start loosening your mind and letting go that chattering tendency of argumentation. They are not about emptiness but stillness of mind. Zazen and shikantaza, from Soto Zen, are about the same thing.

[SarkisPioute]

The second time I took refuge with my vajra guru and it was a very small group of 25 people. It was all in Tibetan but I had the general idea and was very pleased with it.

Thanks for sharing Laura. It sounds very nice indeed.

namaste
kris Thank you Kris

[vNQmO2BF]

through them you start loosening your mind and letting go that chattering tendency of argumentation

Okay, thanks Kaarine. I'll try to remember that but I'm still not sure about the book...

[XYTommy]

I have always been more interested in the concepts of Buddhism and have never had a great leaning towards ceremony. But, to each their own.

Yup, sums up me too. I'm very reluctant to wear labels. In my opinion, any worthwhile philosophy should facilitate the evolution and development of my moral compass and personal beliefs, rather than become a substitute for them. That's probably the thing that's scared me away from joining anyone's 'club'.

The concepts and philosophies behind Buddhism make an awful lot of sense to me, but I've always wondered whether I can actually regard myself as Buddhist if I've never been inclined to take refuge with any particular tradition.

Pete

[LottiFurmann]

Yup, sums up me too

And me too.