[D6Ri5u13]

I have been very surprised to read that meat-eating is not prohibited necessarily in all Buddhist traditions. Is this true? I always assumed all Buddhists must be vegetarian, indeed vegan.

So if various different schools of thought disagree on the necessity of avoiding eating the flesh of living things, how do those that do allow it square that with their basis of compassion and kindness to all sentient beings in Buddhism? What was Buddha's view of this matter?

I would eventually like to give up meat as it has long troubled me to think of the slaughter and cruelty of killing animals. I am aiming to gradually stop eating meat as I learn more about the philosophy of Buddhism. It is difficult to do this when I have been used to living a certain way all my life, but I think such a change would be beneficial to health and spirituality - but that is my very personal view.

[Khurlxgq]

Hi Milly,

Its Buddha and Buddhism - the h comes after the d not the B.

I'm a vegetarian and have been since my late teens after being sickened by what I saw in a meat market and butchers windows (and always having disliked the taste of meat anyway.)

The Buddha taught not to kill. He was a monk however, and monks had to eat once daily whatever was placed in their bowls by lay people.

Its worth looking at our search facility for past topics we've had already on this subject. I found two

http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries...p?topic=3128.0



and 6 pages to this following one:

http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries...p?topic=3271.0


kind wishes,


D-A

[ZonaPutaX]

Buddhist - is that right - I am normally a good speller but have a blind spot about this!

I shall look at the forums you point out, thank you.

[HornyMolly]

avoiding eating the flesh of living things,

Don't think we eat "the flesh of living things",maybe once living.
Ok one of the main considerations of Buddist is the Intent. My understanding of a alms round (pidapat) is to refuse nothing,in the form of food.
The intent is to cause as little bother to the doner as possible. We can encourage a donor not to give us meat but if it arrives in the bowl,well it's a done deal. It is thought that to create a scene about a particular type of food could embarrass the donor.So don't do it.
Second point, the cruz of a monastic life is to simplify as much as possible.To not carry around our prejudices,...insisting on vegetarianism is just another prejudice,ok it is more skillful but its still something else to carry

[markkisil]

blind spot about this!

Yes well don't we all have blind spots? Prejudice's are one form of blind spot

[KongoSan]

Just to clarify that the blind spot I was referring to is about spelling the word Buddhist correctly!

[Sliliashdes]

I became vegetarian before I knew buddhism. I went to a slaughter house and was so shoking for me that I stopped eating meat. After that I joined vegetarian organizations and health organizations. It is clear enough that meet is not needed for a healthy diet. We evolve from non-carnivorous species and we have a metabolism that do not need meat so to keep it working well and healthy. Also a diet with huge amounts of meet will lead into many kind of conditions.

[bp9QxekG]

I have been very surprised to read that meat-eating is not prohibited necessarily in all Buddhist traditions. Is this true? I always assumed all Buddhists must be vegetarian, indeed vegan.

So if various different schools of thought disagree on the necessity of avoiding eating the flesh of living things, how do those that do allow it square that with their basis of compassion and kindness to all sentient beings in Buddhism? What was Buddha's view of this matter?

I would eventually like to give up meat as it has long troubled me to think of the slaughter and cruelty of killing animals. I am aiming to gradually stop eating meat as I learn more about the philosophy of Buddhism. It is difficult to do this when I have been used to living a certain way all my life, but I think such a change would be beneficial to health and spirituality - but that is my very personal view.

Generally speaking, I'd say that vegetarianism is a more compassionate option that's in line with the Buddha's teachings on ahimsa or harmlessness, but the Buddha himself rejected his cousin Devadatta's demand to institute vegetarianism as a requirement. According to the discourses in the Pali Canon, the Buddha and his disciples ate meat as long as it was pure in three ways, but I sincerely doubt that he would've minded eating only vegetarian meals if that's what was offered. If you're interested, you can find some of my thoughts about this topic here and here. (But the short version is, more important than what you eat is how you eat.)

[Bugamerka]

Hi Jason

I have read your views where you indicated and I must say I am very impressed. You present such balanced wise points and I am going to have a good think about what you say.

Thank you very much for answering my questions.

[herrdwq]

more important than what you eat is how you eat.

True Jason. I agree with you here. If I were to be invited to a meal and they offer me meat I will take it. There is no problem. But I feel ok with a diet out of meat when it is possible.

[Kimeoffessyr]

Hi Jason

I have read your views where you indicated and I must say I am very impressed. You present such balanced wise points and I am going to have a good think about what you say.

Thank you very much for answering my questions.

No problem.

[Goooooblin]

Originally Posted by Jason more important than what you eat is how you eat.

True Jason. I agree with you here. If I were to be invited to a meal and they offer me meat I will take it. There is no problem. But I feel ok with a diet out of meat when it is possible.

I find that to be the most balanced approach myself.

A few years back, I became a 'strict vegetarian,' partially due to Buddhism and partially due to other things. I was doing OK until one day I ordered a burrito with no meat and they gave me one with beef instead. It was a simple mistake, but when I opened it and saw the meat, I took it back and politely told the lady at the counter that I ordered no meat. She took the burrito and threw it straight into the garbage. I hadn't even taken a bite out of it yet, but since it had already left the counter, they couldn't legally give it to anybody else. I felt so bad about wasting so much food just because of my attachment to vegetarianism, especially considering how many starving people there are in the world, that I vowed to never complain about meat ever again.

[chuecafresss]

Jason

you have a way of looking at this subject which is so different from anything I have ever encountered - a truly good way. It simply would not have occurred to me to regard it like that. These days it is greed and selfishness that abounds and it is a shock to me to actually encounter people who think these things through instead of showing anger, resentment, shallowness and all the other self-centred things we see around us.

So if someone has already cooked a meal, just eat it and say thankyou. Otherwise it goes to waste. How simple. I like it! Tht's what the monks and Buddha did, they accepted whatever was on offer without making a big deal.

[Marc Spilkintin]

I have been very surprised to read that meat-eating is not prohibited necessarily in all Buddhist traditions. Is this true? I always assumed all Buddhists must be vegetarian

One aspect of Buddhism which always has impressed me is that Buddhism doesn't tell us what to do and say. Yes, there are volumes of strict rules for monks, and there are lists of qualities to assist and guide us lay people on the path. There are no Commandments.

What we eat and how we live is very much up to us, and the consequence of our actions comes back to us.

Similar to Kaarine, I was vegetarian before I was Buddhist. For me there's hardly any connection. I always decline meat or fish, even on the few occasions when it's been prepared for me. That's might not be very "Buddhist" of me, but it is being "me", that's just being who I am.

Milly, I hope these posts have given you some ideas about your eating choices. Don't stop eating meat to be a better Buddhist because that's just not the issue. It's also the more difficult way, because you might feel that you have to work at denying something for yourself.

Wait until you know, from personal conviction, that you don't want to subscribe any longer to the slaughter and cruelty, or some other reason, and make your choice. Then your action will be fully in harmony with your belief.

[CelexaNY]

Hi Woodscooter

Thank you, that is exactly what I will do. If I make that decision to become vegetarian, it must first and foremost be because I feel I cannot take part in the cycle of the slaughter of animals any longer.

This is such a huge subject, to eat meat or not, so I can see that Buddhism is very wise to leave it to individual choice. I am impressed by the ideas of karma and how we are each responsible for our own actions.

[jagxj12]

Wait until you know, from personal conviction, that you don't want to subscribe any longer to the slaughter and cruelty, or some other reason, and make your choice. Then your action will be fully in harmony with your belief.

What a beautifull advice... thanks Woodscooter!

[fameintatenly]

There's no reference to vegetarianism in the Pali canon that I know of. It's a later Mahayanist addition. The Buddha is said to have died from eating poorly-prepared pork. The Buddhist admonition is against killing, and for monks, accepting meat from an animal that was killed specifically for you. It's quite a rhetorical stretch to equate meat-eating with killing. They're very distinct acts that arise from very distinct intentions. If it helps you on your path, do it. If it doesn't, don't.

[exchpaypaleg]

It's a later Mahayanist addition.

Or could be hindu influences. In hindu tradition vegetarianism is a highly encouraged practice.

[poRmawayncmop]

Actually, I am very troubled by this subject. I cannot compute in my brain how a Buddhist monk can possibly eat meat under any circumstances. I could not sleep last night and could not enjoy reading about Buddhism as I have been doing. I cannot get past it until I have sorted it out for myself. I have printed a load of stuff from Wikepedia (not to be relied upon 100% I am aware).

I read last night that the Dalai Lama eats meat 'only' ever other day, apparently because his doctors have told him he needs it. Sir Paul McCartney wrote to him and took him to task over this but received no satisfactory explanation. Could this story be true? The Dalai Lama sets THE example so if he is only partially doing it, what chance has anyone else? There are millions of vegetarians who are healthy and well, certainly prominent ones like Paul McCartney and Joanna Lumley (such a marvellous lady) who look absolutely fine without killing and eating anything.

Part of the very foundation of Buddhist belief is never to hurt fellow sentient beings. I cannot equate the image of a nice peaceful Buddhist monk going out of his way not to hurt so much as an insect and then sitting down to eat a bowl of meat for lunch! Does not the knowledge of the cycle of Karma mean we come back as any being? So when we eat meat we could be eating our own ancesters? Far-fetched maybe, but Buddhism's own belief indicates this could be so.

I have been eating meat all my life through ignorance but what can a self-professed Buddhist's excuse be?

[AK47rulz]

Does not the knowledge of the cycle of Karma mean we come back as any being? So when we eat meat we could be eating our own grandparents? Far-fetched maybe, but Buddhism's own belief indicates this could be so.

Hi Milly,
I agree with you 100% on that point, which is why I have been vegetarian for 22 years now but for me it took a bit more that just belief or intellectual conviction to make me stop eating meat. I was a meat-eating Buddhist and saw no contradiction in what I was doing. In fact I had no intention whatsoever of changing, just because some Buddhists were vegetarian.

I was never put under any pressure but one evening whilst in meditation I underwent a profound experience which I have difficulty describing but from that moment on I 'knew' that I had been eating my mothers and that was the end of meat eating for me. I can't speak for any other Buddhists but that was what changed things for me.

To this day I maintain that I'm not vegetarian due to health, ethical or religious conviction, which confuses most people. I'm vegetarian because I can't bring myself to consume the bodies of these beings.

I have been eating meat all my life through ignorance but what can a self-professed Buddhist's excuse be? Who knows, you'd need to ask them. A big Mac can be quite persuasive I'm told.

Namaste
kris