[ttiokjbnhjjillp]

Aloka-D

very interesting. It starts to answer a question I have been asking myself. The question is: can we really ever be happy in this life? Since it is all illusion, then I do not think we can. Instead it is all a learning curve and challenge, preparing us for what happens at death, after which we have the chance of experiencing true happiness by not having to continue our lessons.

Am I along the right lines? It is really hard to put my thoughts into words about this.

[imawlBoli]

The question is: can we really ever be happy in this life? Since it is all illusion, then I do not think we can. Instead it is all a learning curve and challenge, preparing us for what happens at death, after which we have the chance of experiencing true happiness by not having to continue our lessons.

Yes, we can still be happy whilst accepting that things constantly change and nothing is permanent and if we can let go of some of our clinging and desire. Meditation helps hugely.

I think you've got your studies a little muddled Milly, if you think that we experience true happiness after death!! Not sure what you mean by "it is all illusion" either. it wasn't illusion when I discovered my hot water tank was leaking at the weekend, that's for sure !

[DoroKickcrofe]

can we really ever be happy in this life?

Yes, we can. The Buddha was.

[Sopsneork]

Since it is all illusion, then I do not think we can.

The universe is real. The universe generates suffering at a specific location: in our minds. This is a wonderful truth, since we are able to intervene in the mind, and mediate the suffering in that location. We are able to put an end to suffering, by studying and practicing the Dhamma.

[mr.nemo]

The topic has been split into two now -this new one and the original one - 'Meditation DVD'S'

[oyymoss]

true happiness

This discussion has been had before with perhaps a slightly different twist. My question then as now, is: What does "happiness" mean in the current context? I am happy when I practice my guitar playing and it goes well - it makes me feel satisfied ( and conversely). I am happy when I see that my children are good people and they seem satisfied with their lives. I am happy when I see someone lending a helping hand to someone in need. I could go on - but my point is that, to me, "happiness" is not a state that simply exists without a context, a situation giving rise to certain reactions. Being happy all the time would, it seems to me, become quite boring.

"True happiness" becomes an even more confusing label - I have no idea what it means.

Could you be seeking something based on some idealized vision given you by seomeone who doesn't define what they meannor know what they mean?

One thing is certain for me, I want to have these good feelings while I'm alive, not after I die.

[goatteatromiag]

At the end of the off-topic posts on the DVD thread, Milly said:


what I was trying to say is that in this life we are in samsara, a sea of suffering. Therefore only when we can transcend this can we find perfect peace?
'Samsara' isn't a place. The world and life in it is just as it is. Its how we perceive and interpret the world and ourselves in it, and our mostly delusory mental condition which causes dissatisfaction and suffering. This can be improved with study, practice and understanding.

[ropinirole]

Can we ever be really happy?

Depends on what we understand by being really happy. There is for sure a kind of true and deep "happiness". The guidelines to it were given by the teachings of the historical Buddha in the Pali Canon. Personally, I never speak about happiness but about a peacefull state of mind where there is no urgency to be or to have or to get or to come or to go. That state of mind allows a kind of space so to deal pacefully with worldly things without having stress, sorrow, lamentation, distress and being attached to things.

[Sheefeadalfuh]

This discussion has been had before with perhaps a slightly different twist. My question then as now, is: What does "happiness" mean in the current context? I am happy when I practice my guitar playing and it goes well - it makes me feel satisfied ( and conversely). I am happy when I see that my children are good people and they seem satisfied with their lives. I am happy when I see someone lending a helping hand to someone in need. I could go on - but my point is that, to me, "happiness" is not a state that simply exists without a context, a situation giving rise to certain reactions. Being happy all the time would, it seems to me, become quite boring.

You are describing happiness that is contingent on success in a given area. But what happens when things are not "successful" according to your implied definition (that is, when things are going the way you want, or at least, there is something that is going the way you want)? When we are free from suffering arising from desire and aversion, we can still enjoy guitar playing if we want, still enjoy our happy children, but we would still be happy if we could suddenly no longer play, or our children were undergoing intense suffering of their own. That is the point. (I am not implying we would do nothing to help our children in such a situation, by the way.) The happiness of Buddhist liberation is being happy despite contingencies. It is only boring when you define it as being happy all the time, by the way; if you redefine it as being free from suffering at all times, maybe you would think differently. See how words can twist things?

[liontutuxx]

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[ZAtlLVos]

To better frame my previous post, I think that we can be happy in this very life! If we practice happiness it's attainable. And I believe that the Buddha taught that happiness is attainable in this life, if we put forth the effort and follow his path.

Best,
Laura

[Intockatt]

your implied definition

I'm not proposing a definition of "happiness"(I don't have one) - I think the word has different meanings depending on the context and the individual. In general conversation we have a general sense of what the word may mean but when someone asks if the can be "truly happy" I have no way of knowing what it is that they consider happiness.

I could imagine a situation in which a person adopts, knowingly or unknowingly, a definition of "happiness" that would be frustrated most of the time and thereby consider themselves as "unhappy". Imagine a person who equates (and internalizes) "happiness" as that state of mind that is portrayed by the US advertising media around Christmastime with all the hype, all the overexagerated euphoria, etc - the result would be devastating because it has no basis in reality.

There are times that we feel elated and euphoric, whatever the reason, but we can't equate these experiences with "happiness" unless we are willing to be "unhappy" most of the time. Perhaps a feeling of equanimity, of being at peace with one's life, which could be more sustained, is closer to the concept I'm trying to describe.

[Jeaxatoem]

I'm not proposing a definition of "happiness"(I don't have one) - I think the word has different meanings depending on the context and the individual. In general conversation we have a general sense of what the word may mean but when someone asks if the can be "truly happy" I have no way of knowing what it is that they consider happiness.

I could imagine a situation in which a person adopts, knowingly or unknowingly, a definition of "happiness" that would be frustrated most of the time and thereby consider themselves as "unhappy". Imagine a person who equates (and internalizes) "happiness" as that state of mind that is portrayed by the US advertising media around Christmastime with all the hype, all the overexagerated euphoria, etc - the result would be devastating because it has no basis in reality.

There are times that we feel elated and euphoric, whatever the reason, but we can't equate these experiences with "happiness" unless we are willing to be "unhappy" most of the time. Perhaps a feeling of equanimity, of being at peace with one's life, which could be more sustained, is closer to the concept I'm trying to describe.

Understood.

[zilsolley3]

It is in the noble truths that there is a solution to the problem of suffering. Happiness is certainly attainable, in any definition.

I think for the most part, I am more or less happy (or at peace) most of the time. Sure, every now and then I might get angry, or sad/depressed... But when I have mindfulness about me and control over my thoughts and emotions... I would say I am 'happy' and 'at peace'.

So I would say that yes, Happiness is definitely attainable in this lifetime.

[XIMHOTEP-X]

We can lay down most of our suffering and be happy most of the time; not all of the time. Going beyond both pleasure and pain, we can be "peaceful" all of the time, regardless of what stimuli are present.

[Nubtoubrem]

Sure, every now and then I might get angry, or sad/depressed...

Have you noticed how, when you live by the Dhamma, episodes of anger, sadness, etc, don't have to be taken as seriously? This is how things have changed for me. After getting angry, I used to punish myself endlessly; now, I have a mind that is more "inclined to abandonment" - I let go far more easily. This is a step on the path toward liberation.

[JANALA]

We can lay down most of our suffering and be happy most of the time; not all of the time. Going beyond both pleasure and pain, we can be "peaceful" all of the time, regardless of what stimuli are present.

That is how I see it, too. The Buddha was still visited by Mara after his liberation, still visited by physical pain; but he was not disturbed by them.

[TheReallyBest]

After getting angry, I used to punish myself endlessly

Yes, I am experiencing that Snowmelt. The feeling is as if some burden given by "I-don't-know-what" has gone. Seems that the endlessly punishment is learnt through social conditioning.

[Qutlsilh]

Snowmelt, have you ever run into the problem where people equate dukkha with physical pain itself? Thinking that even one who has completely uprooted ignorance, laid aside greed, aversion and delusion... have not escaped dukkha?

[halyshitzob]

Snowmelt, have you ever run into the problem where people equate dukkha with physical pain itself? Thinking that even one who has completely uprooted ignorance, laid aside greed, aversion and delusion... have not escaped dukkha?

Dukkha is a product of the mind, I think. So, I do not think that physical pain is dukkha. We may generate dukkha from that physical pain, but that is a different thing. The body produces pain, but what does the mind do with that sensation? If the mind wants the pain to go away or focuses on the pain, then dukkha is generated.

If the mind is supremely unconcerned by the pain, then dukkha is not generated.

Perhaps it may be useful to think of an example: suppose we stub our toe violently and are hopping around in extreme discomfort. Just then, a car hits a pedestrian on the street nearby and our attention is diverted. We forget the pain completely. Awareness of the pain ... pouf! What has changed? The mind has shifted.

This is an example of what the mind can do. Even the untrained mind can do it, in such circumstances as described above. The trained mind can do it at will.