[pataagusata]

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I found this article and wondered if anyone had any comments.


REFLECTIONS ON MARA


Rev. Jnana - Zen Dharma Teacher - IBMC




A Dharma Talk at the IBMC --- This morning's talk presents reflections on the subject of Mara. First we will consider some of the essential storys from the sutras. This will provide the background for briefly touching on the historical origins of the Mara mythology. We'll then shift to a consideration of the meaning of Mara as symbol in relation to Buddhist doctrine as well as metaphor, not only historically but for the present moment. Please understand that this presentation must necessarily distill a very deep vat of information into the simple vessel of a Sunday dharma talk, merely skimming the foam off the top of a complex brew.

Mara is a familiar figure in the rich lore of Buddhism, most especially as the deva, or supernatural being, whose forces attack the bodhisattva Siddhartha Gautama as he sat beneath the pipal tree prior to his Enlightenment. In the sutras there are numerous variations on and elaborations of this account, some of them approaching the phantasma- gorical in their detail and embellishment.

Here is a much abbreviated version of standard canonical accounts. Siddhartha's meditative calm proved so powerful that the deadly forces hurled at him by Mara were transformed into flowers of offering that showered gently down upon his head. Gautama was equally unmoved when, according to some traditions, Mara sent his beautiful daughters in an attempt to seduce the bodhisattva. In a final attempt to unseat him, Mara insisted that he, not Gautama, had a right to the throne of enlightenment by virtue of his previous meritorious deeds, while all of Mara's hordes thundered forth their support. In response, the solitary bodhisattva reached down and touched the ground, calling upon the earth goddess to bear witness to his countless past deeds of merit. In acknowledgement the earth gave a great shudder, at which Mara's fearsome elephant bowed down before the bodhisattva in submission, and Mara and his armies fled in terror. At this moment hosts of devas arrived to proclaim Gautama's victory and to witness his final illumination.


continued here:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma8/mara.html

[dAy2EWlg]

Mara as symbol in relation to Buddhist doctrine as well as metaphor

That's my take on Mara. That said, I don't don't wish in any way to demean the tremendous value of this portrayal within the suttas, as they speak to the heart. They are amongst my favorite suttas, as they clearly demonstrate the internal conflicts we all feel. The way he pours scorn on Buddha and his followers, the way he tells them there is no escape, is a very 'human' portrayal of the struggle all contemplatives must undergo.

These suttas have a unique power of their own, as we all react to symbol and myth in an deep and unconscious way.

The thought that there may be a genuine being called Mara who is pledged to undermine all efforts by whatever means is challenging. But if it prompts us to investigate all aspects of our lives and question if there is not somewhere where we are capitulating to Mara, then it's a good thing.

[Frannypaync]

Good morning. This is very real and intense. Our usual manner of dealing with conflict doesn't work in the attack, we create, against the body and mind, felt as the greatest threat against our bliss. So we learn to give it back, or take in less, as going back to an original state of relating, created of, as with the forces of subtle beginnings. oh sh...

[Necedofer]

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I've revived this thread because I wondered if anyone had any further thoughts on the subject of Mara.

My personal view is that he represents negative states of mind rather than being a 'real' being.

What does he mean to you ?

When Mara is mentioned I always think of the wonderful sutta about Soma the nun:


SN 5.2 Soma Sutta: Mara Meets His Match


The nun Soma has entered Andhavana (Blind Man's Grove) near Savatthi to practice meditation. Mara, the embodiment of delusion, sees her there and desires to make her waver and abandon her concentration. He addresses her with a verse:


That which can be attained by seers
— The place so hard to arrive at —
Women are not able to reach,
Since they lack sufficient wisdom.

[Soma replies:]

'What difference does being a woman make
When the mind is well-composed,
When knowledge is proceeding on,
When one rightly sees into Dhamma?

Indeed for whom the question arises:
"Am I a man or a woman?"
Or, "Am I even something at all?"
To them alone is Mara fit to talk!

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....002.olen.html

[GDRussiayear]

That's my take on Mara.

Mine too. In Zen we appreciate highly the passage about the earth witnessing Buddha's realization. We say that the teachings of the Buddha are here and now, they had to be grounded in this time at this moment. That it is all about our earthly condition. To master it, to know it. The statue we have at the Dojo is the one of the Buddha touching the earth. A beautiful reminder of the here and now.

[QHdy5Z3A]

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In 'Two Kinds of Language', Ajahn Buddhadasa described Mara as follows:


Now we turn to a rather strange word, the word "Mara" (the tempter, the devil). The Mara of everyday language is conceived as a kind of monster with body, face, and eyes of repulsive and terrifying appearance.

Mara in Dhamma language, however, is not a living creature but rather any kind of mental state opposed to the good and wholesome and to progress towards the cessation of dukkha. That which opposes and obstructs spiritual progress is called Mara. We may think of Mara as a living being if we wish, as long as we understand what he really stands for.

No doubt you have often heard the story of how Mara came down from the Paranimmitavasavatti realm to confront the Buddha-to-be. This was the real Mara the Tempter. He came down from the highest heaven, the Paranimmitavasavatti realm, which is a heaven of sensual enjoyments of the highest order, a paradise abounding in everything the heart could desire, where someone is always standing by to gratify one's every wish.

This is Mara the Tempter, but not the one with the ugly, ferocious countenance and reddened mouth, who is supposed to go around catching creatures to suck their blood. That is Mara as ignorant people picture him. It is the Mara of the everyday language of ignorant people who don't know how to recognize Mara when they see him.

In Dhamma language, the word "Mara" means at worst the heaven known as Paranimmitavasavatti, the highest realm of sensuality. In general it means any mental state opposed to the good and wholesome, opposed to spiritual progress. This is Mara in Dhamma language.
http://www.buddhadasa.com/naturaltru...language2.html

[JANALA]

I've always thought of Mara as our craving, and the ignorance that leads to it. When we're trying to go down the path toward enlightenment, these defilements which take personification as a type of demon/deva called Mara are the stumbling blocks, the hindrances. It's like the Satan/devil of Christianity, leading us away from compassion and wisdom and toward sensual pleasures, hate and prejudice, self-centered thought and action. Anyone else?

[mikelangr]

When the subject of whether this or that being is real or not comes up, I always wonder, "Do you mean 'real' as compared to the one asking? I am a student of Vajrayana (Tibetan Buddhism), which you may know has a seemingly endless parade of monsters and deities, and this 'are they real?" question pops up frequently. And the funny thing is, this presumes that there is an actual, permanent 'self' (atma) asking the question. When, through analytical meditation (vipassna) it is determined that there is no place where an existing 'self' can be found to exist, then questions such as whether Mara is real or not take on a whole new dimension. I like to think, "Yes, Mara is real, but no more real than you or I".

[lidya-sggf]

I don't worry about real or not, since there's no way to know. I worry about the *purpose* of learning about them, what the stories are meant to convey about our own lives. Such as devas that are still subject to dukkha because their lives eventually end and they are in denial. I take this to mean that even if we find bliss in life, if we haven't accepted reality as it is including that we will die, we're still subject to suffering. We're still delusional on some level, not entirely free.

[Peter Hill]

I don't worry about real or not, since there's no way to know. I worry about the *purpose* of learning about them, what the stories are meant to convey about our own lives.

Absolutely right. There's a teaching there either way.

[Nundduedola]

Same with people trying to figure out if all the stories in the Tipitaka are true or not, even questioning whether the Buddha really existed or if the teachings were composed from many people.

We're never going to be able to prove whether these things happened or not, and we miss the point to try and "go there" in speculation. Each and every account was recorded for a reason, either as a direct teaching or to convey some meaning that relates to our lives, somehow. They could all be false, it wouldn't matter (as long as we don't somehow find out they're false, there are people who at that point wouldn't even consider trying to learn from them).

Sometimes I wonder about some people's common sense in worrying about and arguing about the most inane things. :]

[aceriscoolon]

There is a Sutta where Buddha is asked "What is Mara" and the answer is something like "greed, hatred and delusion"

I'll see if I can dig it up

It does make sense to see Mara in this way, since it would make more sense of the enlightenment story where Buddha is struggling to overcome the defilements, not combat some supernatural being and his daughters

[Rategbee]

Today I found an article by Stephen Batchelor called "Living with the Devil" and I thought I'd add it to this thread to see if anyone has any additional comments :


http://www.tricycle.com/essay/living...0&offer=dharma

[SantaClaus]

While I can easily relate to the idea of Mara being forces in your mind, I wonder how this fits for practitioners of the more esoteric branches of Buddhism? One thing that keeps me away from the more esoteric schools is the fact that there is a bit too much "Mysticism" for an old Schizo like me!

Edit: Thanks for the Stephen Batchelor link Aloka-D, very interesting.

[tgs]

there is a bit too much "Mysticism" for an old Schizo like me!

Absolutely right l.t. I remember reading one sutta where Brahma (possessed by Mara) tells the Buddha that there is absolutely no escape, in any way for him. For a moment this troubled me deeply, just the thought of it.
Here it is:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....049.than.html
But Buddha knows what's going down:
I told Mara the Evil One, 'I know you, Evil One. Don't assume, "He doesn't know me. It's a superb sutta and one of my favourites. Odd tastes perhaps

Good article on that link Aloka-D

[lapInsalm]

Thanks for the link Srivijaya, I've skimmed it, I'll take another good look later .

[strollerssfsfs]

I particularly like the suttas with Mara tempting nuns. I mentioned one #4, here's another.


SN 5.1 - Alavika Sutta : Sister Alavika

At Savatthi. Then, early in the morning, Alavika the nun put on her robes and, taking her bowl & outer robe, went into Savatthi for alms. When she had gone for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Grove of the Blind to spend the day. Having gone deep into the Grove of the Blind, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

Then Mara the Evil One, wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in her, wanting to make her fall away from seclusion, approached her & addressed her in verse:

There's no
escape
in the world,
so what are you trying to do
with solitude?
Enjoy sensual delights.
Don't be someone
who later regrets.

Then the thought occurred to Alavika the nun: "Now who has recited this verse — a human being or a non-human one?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited this verse wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in me, wanting to make me fall away from seclusion."

Then, having understood that "This is Mara the Evil One," she replied to him in verses:

There is
an escape in the world,
well touched by me
with discernment —
something that you,
you Evil One,
kinsman of the heedless,
don't know.
Sensual pleasures
are like swords & spears;
the aggregates,
their executioner's block.
What you call sensual delight
is no delight for me.

Then Mara the Evil One — sad & dejected at realizing, "Alavika the nun knows me" — vanished right there.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....001.than.html

[Biashpainabix]

Nice Sutta, very succint.

Thanks for posting it.

[DeilMikina]

I particularly like the suttas with Mara tempting nuns. I mentioned one #4, here's another.

This series of suttas in the Samyutta Nikaya are morality plays, and all have the same basic format: A mythical creature pops up next to the Buddha or a Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni and offers a verse, and the protagonist counters with Dhamma. Very entertaining when seen in context,,,

[Nundduedola]

While I can easily relate to the idea of Mara being forces in your mind, I wonder how this fits for practitioners of the more esoteric branches of Buddhism? One thing that keeps me away from the more esoteric schools is the fact that there is a bit too much "Mysticism" for an old Schizo like me!

It seems that some recognize that this and other teachings are allegorical, but there are also some who resist the idea rather vehemently. For one who does not embrace superstitions and the like, it is a good idea to steer clear of such folks when possible.


Batchelor is a very good source, and I very much recommend his books "Buddhism Without Beliefs" and "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist".