[FYIbiatches]

The other day my boyfriend (who is also a coworker) and I were discussing how the bad habits of some people in the workplace is detrimental to their coworker's peace of mind and job performance, health safety in the kitchen (we work in a kitchen) and even their own happiness.

My boyfriend mentioned that because these people have been 'warned' many times about their behaviors, and they have not been fired yet, the threats become empty and they do not learn their lesson. They learn not to take their job responsibly, they drag down the performance of the kitchen, and they hurt others around them.

So the question was posed amongst each other, "If you were the boss of the kitchen, would you fire this person?" Firing the person will create many hard feelings but hopefully, a lesson learned and more responsibility gained.

So this is what I answered.

"Actions should be determined by what will bring about the most happiness and contentment for all parties whether it be now or for the future."

In that case, I would fire the person.

This is my mission for you: According to your experience and knowledge, pick apart that statement, adding or subtracting words, changing it, and making it better according to what you believe could make it more true. I want to see what happens!

[sandyphoebetvmaa]

Shape up or ship out....is what my ex boss lives by...and she has shown many the door and will not hesitate to do more.
Back when I was rank and file, I learned responsibility and discipline.

Years on, as a manager, it's an ongoing process I live by and enforce at work.
My own mission statement: when organisations and individuals won't move on, plwk moves.

A thought here...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....111.than.html
Then Kesi the horsetrainer went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side.
As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him:

"You, Kesi, are a trained man, a trainer of tamable horses. And how do you train a tamable horse?"
"Lord, I train a tamable horse [sometimes] with gentleness, [sometimes] with harshness, [sometimes] with both gentleness & harshness."

"And if a tamable horse doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, Kesi, what do you do?"
"If a tamable horse doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild and harsh training, Lord, then I kill it.
Why is that? [I think:] 'Don't let this be a disgrace to my lineage of teachers.'

But the Blessed One, Lord, is the unexcelled trainer of tamable people. How do you train a tamable person?"
"Kesi, I train a tamable person [sometimes] with gentleness, [sometimes] with harshness, [sometimes] with both gentleness & harshness.

"And if a tamable person doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, what do You do?"
"If a tamable person doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, then I kill him, Kesi."

"But it's not proper for our Blessed One to take life! And yet the Blessed One just said, 'I kill him, Kesi.'"
"It is true, Kesi, that it's not proper for a Tathagata to take life.

But if a tamable person doesn't submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, then the Tathagata doesn't regard him as being worth speaking to or admonishing. His knowledgeable fellows in the holy life don't regard him as being worth speaking to or admonishing.

This is what it means to be totally destroyed in the Doctrine & Discipline, when the Tathagata doesn't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing, and one's knowledgeable fellows in the holy life don't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing."

"Yes, Lord, wouldn't one be totally destroyed if the Tathagata doesn't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing, and one's knowledgeable fellows in the holy life don't regard one as being worth speaking to or admonishing!

[NikkitaZ]

"Actions should be determined by what will bring about the most happiness and contentment for all parties whether it be now or for the future."
This is my mission for you: According to your experience and knowledge, pick apart that statement, adding or subtracting words, changing it, and making it better according to what you believe could make it more true. I want to see what happens!

The only problem with that statement is that it would be presumptuous for you to assume that you know what would bring happiness to other people. Sometime, I wonder if people really know what would really make themselves happy.

Let me add that in my world view, satisfying a desire/craving does not result in happiness. (e.g. using drugs, shopping/eating because you are sad.) If it does in your worldview, maybe it is easy to know what would make other people happy.

[mp3 free]

Yuan,
Pleasure is different from happiness; material items and experiences bring about pleasure. It is a good feeling, but will not last. I realize this, so with my statement I am talking about the cessation of suffering caused by their bad habits. So Yuan I do agree with what you say makes people happy.

[Corryikilelet]

You cannot make all parties happy and content. Look around and see how people are fighting each other...Because people mostly do not like to share.

Look at Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Egypt and USA how this fellow is trying to get other nations' oil or their other national belongings...

[EmpaccalGah]

Bothi,

Haha, you are thinking on a very large scale! I wasn't talking quite that large.

[kertionderf]

In five ways should an employer minister to his employees:

(i) by assigning them work according to their ability,
(ii) by supplying them with food and with wages,
(iii) by tending them in sickness,
(iv) by sharing with them any delicacies,
(v) by granting them leave at times.

The employees thus ministered to by their employer show their compassion to him in five ways:

(i) they start work before him,
(ii) they stop working after him,
(iii) they take only what is given,
(iv) they perform their duties well,
(v) they uphold his good name and fame.

The employees thus ministered to show their compassion towards him in these five ways.

Thus is the Nadir covered by him and made safe and secure.

Sigalovada Sutta: The Layperson's Code of Discipline

[lalffibra]

"Actions should be determined by what will bring about the most happiness and contentment for all parties whether it be now or for the future."

According to my limited knowledge or experience, I would like to give my interpretation or change for this statement, but I do not think I can make it better.

" Interpret you're own actions, before determining what will bring about the most happiness and contentment for all parties, free of bias, now or for the future"

Thank you for posting that question, it was very good to think about!

[CathBraunn]

Certainly clearly a troublesome employee given every chance to reform, should be dismissed. That is the employer's privilege.

The difference between an employer, employees and the tathagatha is that for the tathagatha, he doesn't have to put up with the troublesome employee but all the other people concerned do so its easy for him to say, i ignore him. An employer cannot ignore a troublesome employee and its not even easy for another employee to ignore them. So he should be dismissed.

The line you've given us to dissect or improve is actually the philosophy of the Utilitarians. Its infiltrated the public conscious so you probably got it from there. I mean most people are aware of this principle as a course of action even if they don't know where it comes from.

Utilitarianism is an ethical theory holding that the proper course of action is the one that maximizes the overall "happiness". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

Anyway I don't know of a better solution to the problem.

[artenotreah]

I often think more of wisdom and that wisdom would provide the perfect solution. Sacking the person wouldn't make them happy or better or really any the wiser. It also leads you then into others then behaving through fear.

For me the wise action is the one that improves all, everyone gains. It just shows us that we lack wisdom on many things.

G.

[Licacivelip]

The Right Way is a benefit to all and would make everyone happy so long as they follow it. When the path is not followed suffering is a given. The Buddha did not own a home or have employees, so by avoiding the problem suffering is prevented. For the businessman, he is caught on all sides by suffering, if he fires the employee, the employee may try to sue him, if he keeps the employee, his business may suffer. After a while of suffering perhaps Buddhism will start to look more attractive.

There is nothing I would change in your statement, it is a good enough principle to live by, although happiness is subjective and it is impossible to please everyone, so your statement is good for groups, but the most important things is everyone being happy individually by their own means. But that dramatically changes your statement around.

Only by your own means can you gain liberation, who else can do it for you?

As for your business situation, if firing a person would make the majority happy, then it should be done, just don't assume this will make everyone happy, because the fired party may not be happy. On the other hand if they don't like their job they may enjoy being fired, especially if the only way they can get unemployment is to be fired and not quit. People do strange things when money is at stake.

[tropicana]

The Buddha did not own a home or have employees, so by avoiding the problem suffering is prevented

The Buddha was a monk, but he had many lay followers and gave them various kinds of advice suitable for them to have harmonious relationships within their family situations, as well as with employees and co-workers.

I recommend reading, for example, the Sigalovada Sutta DN 31.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...31.0.ksw0.html

[gettoblaster]

The other day my boyfriend (who is also a coworker) and I were discussing how the bad habits of some people in the workplace is detrimental to their coworker's peace of mind and job performance, health safety in the kitchen (we work in a kitchen) and even their own happiness.

My boyfriend mentioned that because these people have been 'warned' many times about their behaviors, and they have not been fired yet, the threats become empty and they do not learn their lesson. They learn not to take their job responsibly, they drag down the performance of the kitchen, and they hurt others around them.

So the question was posed amongst each other, "If you were the boss of the kitchen, would you fire this person?" Firing the person will create many hard feelings but hopefully, a lesson learned and more responsibility gained.

So this is what I answered.

"Actions should be determined by what will bring about the most happiness and contentment for all parties whether it be now or for the future."

In that case, I would fire the person.

This is my mission for you: According to your experience and knowledge, pick apart that statement, adding or subtracting words, changing it, and making it better according to what you believe could make it more true. I want to see what happens!

Gassho

Firing the person or people will not bring them any happiness or contentment, in fact probably the opposite - they weill be unhappy and discontented, at least until they are able to learn and develop and not asct in the same way in the future. That may be the "harsh" way to teach - but is it the compassionate way at present?

Can that unhappiness and discontentment created be balanced by the increased happines and contentment of those remaining at work?

Firing them is not the compassionate act. It may, in fact, be the reverse - if there are people (wives, husbands, childeren, depending on the income for survival.

The compassionate act would be to talk to the whole team (Not just your boyfriend and including the employer) about the situation - trying to find a resolution where everyone keeps their jobs and harmony is restored to the team.

[NutChusty]

I think it might be worth noting that Callie hasn't been back to the website for 2 months .