[SappyAppy]

The following is from an interview in the current Rolling Stone magazine.



How is this supposed to square with the Buddha's teaching of Anatta?

We often hear of a "Buddhist re-birth" in which there is "re-birth" of this-or-that which is supposedly not an Atman.

But the Dalai Lama is not even speaking of this. He is speaking of "my reincarnation".

How is this Buddhism?:




I understand you're going to meet with a group of Tibetan spiritual leaders in November to discuss your succession. What issues will be on the table?

On the last few occasions when we get religious leaders together, I raised this issue. Chinese Communists are very much concerned about my reincarnation! [Laughs] So we need to discuss.

The concrete decisions are not yet finalized. One thing is quite sure. After all, the Dalai Lama reincarnation means my reincarnation, my rebirth. So logically, this is a matter of my decision. No one else — even spiritual leaders. My next life is entirely up to me.


But the Chinese government says they get to decide on all reincarnations, including yours.

This is quite controversial. The Communists are not only nonbelievers, but they also consider Tibetan Buddhism poisonous. So they deliberately try to minimize Tibetan Buddhism. Should people who try to minimize or eliminate Tibetan Buddhism interfere about rebirth? It's quite strange, really. Quite funny. They are only thinking about political power in Lhasa. That's silly. I think it is better for them to remain completely neutral. Or it would be more logical for the Chinese to say, "There should not be any reincarnation."


Does it bother you that people speak so much about your death?

No, not at all. In Newark last month, a French journalist raised the issue. I took off my glasses and ask him, "According to your judgment of my face, the reincarnation question is rather a hurry or not?" And he said, "No hurry!" [Laughs]


Do you find yourself leaning toward a more traditional method of selecting the next Dalai Lama — your reincarnation — similar to the way you were discovered?

At this moment, I feel I can wait another 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Then we'll see the situation. If the Tibetan people still want to keep this institution, and want to follow the traditional way, then they will use past experience: a search for a young boy who has some special significance.


As far as where the boy is born, that I have made clear. If I die as a refugee, one still carrying the Tibetan struggle, then the reincarnation logically must be found outside of Tibet. The very purpose of re*incarnation is to carry on the work started in the previous life. So logically, if the previous person dies outside of Tibet as a refugee, the reincarnation must be found that way. Otherwise, it creates more trouble.


Can you foresee the challenges your successor, the 15th Dalai Lama, might face?

By my resignation, I already made the role separate from the political world. So it will be much safer for the next Dalai Lama. Now, if the 15th Dalai Lama is not fit to be head of government, no problem. Whatever he can do as a spiritual leader, he can do. Not very smart? OK! [Laughs]


Some traditions of Tibetan Buddhism suggest that a boy born before the death of a high lama could actually be his reincarnation. Do you believe that the 15th Dalai Lama could already be alive today?

It is possible. At least two modern lamas before their death said, "This boy who already is alive is my reincarnation." If it fits, after some investigation, then it is possible
.

If in fact this boy is alive today, would you take part in his training?

If I'm too old, then I don't know! [Laughs]

[Hsmrcahr]

But the Dalai Lama is not even speaking of this. He is speaking of "my reincarnation".

How is this Buddhism?:
I've no idea Stuka. He's the only one who can answer that, I don't see how anyone else can answer it for him really .

[Corporal White]

Hi Stuka,

I have the impression that one thing is the Tibetan Religion as a Mahayana branch and the other thing is the Dalai Lama. He has a personal political agenda and it seems that the "reincarnation" issue helps to get some attention, mostly from the Western culture. IMHO, I do not think all this has something to do with the core aspects of the Pali teaching. But on the other hand, politics is part, again, of human nature. It is about power and how to use it so to get convenient results in the public life of people. We all do politics when we try to influence each other. There is a very subtle line that divides political leaders from religious ones.

[WeightWatchyshow]

There could be a way around it if HHDL is using the term loosely as a convention in order to be understood but there's no way to make any sense of the last point that a child could already be born who is his next reincarnation. Even if we turn a blind eye to the possibility of a pseudo-atman then it makes no sense.
It'd have to be major league stuff - enlightened being manifesting other bodies etc.???

No idea Stuka. I guess, like Aloka said he'd need to explain that himself.

[AK47rulz]

Some traditions of Tibetan Buddhism suggest that a boy born before the death of a high lama could actually be his reincarnation. Do you believe that the 15th Dalai Lama could already be alive today?

It is possible. At least two modern lamas before their death said, "This boy who already is alive is my reincarnation." If it fits, after some investigation, then it is possible

If in fact this boy is alive today, would you take part in his training?

If I'm too old, then I don't know! [Laughs] I found the interview presented some quite unconventional views about reincarnation

[Hetgvwic]

The way I read it, he's using "reincarnation" to mean "successor". That is, I don't get the feeling that he's using the word to mean anything philosophical.

The bit about his next reincarnation possibly having already been born doesn't contradict my understanding of anatta or rebirth, either. If I could type normally, I'd explain what I mean by that. Sorry.

[wllsqyuipknczx]

The way I read it, he's using "reincarnation" to mean "successor". That is, I don't get the feeling that he's using the word to mean anything philosophical.

That was my overriding feeling too. It's a massive political problem for the exiled Tibetans.

The bit about his next reincarnation possibly having already been born doesn't contradict my understanding of anatta or rebirth, either. If I could type normally, I'd explain what I mean by that. Sorry. I would very much like to hear your take on it FBM. I can't work that out at all.

[feedcomnet]

It's a massive political problem for the exiled Tibetans.

Not any more, he stepped down from being the head of the Tibetan government in exile recently and he and his sucessors will no longer have that political role.

[aaaaaaahabbbby]

That was my overriding feeling too. It's a massive political problem for the exiled Tibetans.


I would very much like to hear your take on it FBM. I can't work that out at all.

Well, if we reject the concept of Self as an immortal soul-like substance that literally transmigrates, that opens up a lot of possibilities. For example, in the Milinda Panha:

“Can there be any rebirth where there is no transmigration?”
“Yes there can, just as a man can light one oil-lamp
from another but nothing moves from one lamp to the
other; or as a pupil can learn a verse by heart from a teacher
but the verse does not transmigrate from teacher to pupil.” http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...da/milinda.pdf

[r9tbayfC]

Well, if we reject the concept of Self as an immortal soul-like substance that literally transmigrates, that opens up a lot of possibilities. For example, in the Milinda Panha:

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...da/milinda.pdf

That seems quite a stretch. And, of course, the Buddha did not teach "milinda panha", which is quite a departure from his teaching of Anatta (see OP).

[LsrSRVxR]

Thanks for the link FBM. I'd heard of this debate but never knew anything had survived of it.

I find the wording of the quote odd: rebirth without transmigration. I regard them as synonymous. If there is nothing transmigrating, then there is nothing to be reborn.

If we regard our condition as entirely dependent arisen, then how can that which is not established (ie self) within our own aggregates be claimed to be 'passed over' to the dependent arisen aggregates of another?

And if this is not being claimed, what then is being claimed?

Still don't get it.

[Solo3uc4]

FBM,

I find the quote highly metaphysical, leads to speculative views and, as I can understand, how can rebirth happen with no transmigration. On the other hand the examples are short in explaining it. The thing I see in the example of the poem is: The mind recognizes (sanjanati) its clinging object, the poem, thinks about (vitakka) brings proliferation (papanca) comes desire (chanda), likes and dislikes (piyapiyya) which eventualy leads to craving. Is this right?

[Dreaming]

Still don't get it.

Neither me. Unless we are trying to bring back the slef to the doctrine.

[VladFal]

Definitely not bringing self in, that's what old-school transmigration does, I think.

OK, without a soul, what is there associated with this body that is unique to it so that we might call it "me" and that might transmigrate? The moment-to-moment phenomena emanating from this body and its behavior. That's it. No fixed identity or being, nothing permanent, just the phenomena. "You" are whatever the 5 khandas are doing at the moment; nothing more can be found.

The teacher in the Milinda Panha sutta is directing his being, his behavior, to the student. Students have different abilities, and a student who perfectly understands the teacher can be said to have the teacher reborn in him.

The traditional belief that the lama's spirit (or something) is somehow reborn in a young boy whom he'd never met is, as far as I can tell, not in line with what the Buddha taught about anatta.

[SHUSIATULSE]

"You" are whatever the 5 khandas are doing at the moment; nothing more can be found. Nicely worded, FBM.

[illignocearia]

Definitely not bringing self in, that's what old-school transmigration does, I think.

ANd so is "new-school" transmigration.

OK, without a soul, what is there associated with this body that is unique to it so that we might call it "me" and that might transmigrate? Yeah. New-school.

The moment-to-moment phenomena emanating from this body and its behavior. That's it. No fixed identity or being, nothing permanent, just the phenomena. "You" are whatever the 5 khandas are doing at the moment; nothing more can be found. Yeah. AN "Atman-that-is-not-an-Atman".

The teacher in the Milinda Panha sutta is directing his being, his behavior, to the student. Students have different abilities, and a student who perfectly understands the teacher can be said to have the teacher reborn in him. The teacher in MP is teaching hinduism.

The traditional belief that the lama's spirit (or something) is somehow reborn in a young boy whom he'd never met is, as far as I can tell, not in line with what the Buddha taught about anatta. And so is "new-school" transmigration.

[fluoxet]

ANd so is "new-school" transmigration.

Yes. A new transmigration school with a the same old exisitencial angst about something to endure; and the same old habit of the wandering mind.

[Azzi_Kahlila]

an the same old habit of the wandering mind.

Well I think we're all guilty of that at some time or another!

[DYjLN8rF]

Well I think we're all guilty of that at some time or another!

Sure Aloka. I tell because I know it happens...

[TepSteade]

a student who perfectly understands the teacher can be said to have the teacher reborn in him.

Okay, so it's just a figure of speech, rather than any kind of ontological claim? A bit like saying - the child is the father of the man or he's a chip off the old block.

In other words Lamas would be using it as a means of saying "this kid is suitable to fill my shoes".

If I understand it correctly