[QQ9ktYrV]

stuka: according to the article the Gandhari scrolls are older than the Pali scrolls

Would you also assume that the oldest surviving fossil is the first creature that ever lived?

[Dwemadayday]

It is a simple distinction; except calling the Nikayas collection a "canon" complicates such simplicity.

It gets worse. The "canon" also includes the "abhidhamma pitaka" and other works that are known and acknowledged to have been later controvances, many of which contradict or ignore the Buddha's teachings in favor of outright Brahnanism.


I try to be as specific as I can with all this to avoid confusion.

[healty-back]

How can we be so sure of authenticity so far after the fact?

As I said before,the Buddha's liberative teachings can be identified by criteria that stories based in superstition and speculative view cannot hope to mimic.

[bomondus]

It is a simple distinction; except calling the Nikayas collection a "canon" complicates such simplicity.

Canon: a regulatiom or dogma decreed by a church council
( merriam-webster)

Seems simple enuf to me...

[Broorbbub]

now that's a cannon!

[slowlexrese]

Yeah, but it is also a rather arbitrary and modern designation. Back in the day it was pretty much just "the Dhamma" or "this Dhamma" (distinguishing the Buddha's own)...

I'm not following the "arbitrary" part. It's what was written in Pali, the first language the suttas were written in. As such, it is easily distinguishable from what was written in Sanskrit or other languages. Seems like a reasonable way to classify them, especially as many of the sutras written later contain elements alien to the Pali and even contradictory of it.

[Izzy]

I mean the inclusion of such writings as the "abhidhamma pitaka" as part of the "Canon", as if they were also the teachings of the Buddha. Yes i think it was in Pali, but I see its inclusion as "canonical" as arbitrary.

[aideriimibion]

It gets worse....

tell me about it

I try to be as specific as I can with all this to avoid confusion.

Which I very much appreciate.

[GogaMegaPiska]

Would you also assume that the oldest surviving fossil is the first creature that ever lived?

Why? Is that what you think digger-uppers in the article did?

[Gintovtosik]

Why? Is that what you think digger-uppers in the article did?

It is what the writers and editors of Tricycle are doing.

[allachakb]

I mean the inclusion of such writings as the "abhidhamma pitaka" as part of the "Canon", as if they were also the teachings of the Buddha. Yes i think it was in Pali, but I see its inclusion as "canonical" as arbitrary.

Ah. Gotcha. I feel the same way about the Dhammapada, to be honest. Not that there's anything wrong with it. It just seems to belong to a different genre of literature to me. Dunno. No skin off my teeth, anyway. =}

[BruceQW]

Pali Canon or not the Four Noble Truths/Dependent Co-Arising and the three marks are Buddhadhamma


It just so happens that the Pali Canon spends more time discussing these core teachings more so than certain later "sutras" (although some Sutras do)


To me the Pali Canon isnt the ultimate word of Buddha, obviously certain changes and errors would creep in, but it does know where the focus is


N.B. I exclude the Abhidhamma

[jabader]

Ah. Gotcha. I feel the same way about the Dhammapada, to be honest. Not that there's anything wrong with it. It just seems to belong to a different genre of literature to me. Dunno. No skin off my teeth, anyway. =}

Me, too. They claim that the Buddha said all of it at one time or another, but I have been all over the MN and SN and haven't seen the Buddha saying any of it...

[Glanteeignile]

To me the Pali Canon isnt the ultimate word of Buddha, obviously certain changes and errors would creep in, but it does know where the focus is

I always take into account who is speaking in the suttas, and to whom, and in what context.

N.B. I exclude the Abhidhamma I have seen Ajahn Buddhadasa recommend that we throw the "abhidhamma" into the sea. I like that very much....

[Caursedus]

I have seen Ajahn Buddhadasa recommend that we throw the "abhidhamma" into the sea.

Oh No, why the sea? what fault it has made?

[wCYvMKAc]

stuka

the dubious basis that the Gandhari scrolls are the oldest surviving written documents.

Dubious how?

[forebirdo]

stuka

they are comparing surviving textual (written) documents against teachings that are known to have been passed down for a very long time by oral tradition, by folks who had vested interest in conveying them accurately and nothing else to do.

How do you know what their interests were?

[diundasmink]

Would you also assume that the oldest surviving fossil is the first creature that ever lived?

Is this the best analogy? Clarify by finishing this: scrolls are to fossils as creatures are to...?

[apatteopipt]

stuka

Dubious how?

DO you need a picture drawn for you? If this particular set of documents is the oldest surviving set of documents, that means absolutely nothing in relation to an already-600-year-old oral tradition.

[nretdjuend]

Is this the best analogy? Clarify by finishing this: scrolls are to fossils as creatures are to...?

The oral memorization, recitation, and conveyance of the Buddha's teachings. It is just one analogy.