[WrinnaArraple]

hi dazzle, it was just my thought that the 2nd noble truth states that the cause of suffering was clinging or attachment. i quess that would include dhamma teachers. and the kalama sutta advises (among other things) not to accept teaching just because it comes from one's teacher. just my thought. i'm a big fan of critical thinking.

Thanks for explaining what you meant, inji.

[wasssallx]

I'll briefly steal from Jewish Hasidic tradition (I read this in Martin Buber's Tales of the Hasidim many years ago): Rabbi Zusya was on his deathbed and many of his students came to see him. He told his students, "In the world to come they will not ask me, 'Why were you not Moses?' They will ask me, 'Why were you not Zusya?'

If a teacher expects the student to become an exact replication of himself, then the teacher is a failure for the student. If the student expects the teacher to make him or herself an exact replication of the teacher, then the student is a failure for the teacher. Truth, whatever it is, can never be discovered through purely imitation.

() kyorei

[flnastyax]

I have seen offline how people can become very attached to charismatic teachers to the extent that the teachers become all important above everything else - and then there can rarely be any real maturity, because there's always that ongoing dependence and need for approval.

I found this article by Ajahn Sumedho called "Attachment to Teachers"

http://amaravati.org/abmtrial/docume...a/15attac.html

excerpt:

it's not very wise to attach to a particular teacher to the point where you refuse to learn from any other.

But some teachers encourage this attitude. They say, 'Once you take me as your teacher, then don't you go to any other teacher! Don't you learn from any other tradition! If you accept me as your teacher, you can't go to any other.'

There are a lot of teachers that bind you to themselves in that way, and they have very good reasons sometimes, because people just 'go shopping'. They go from one teacher to another teacher, and another ... and never learn anything. But I think the problem is not so much in 'shopping' as in attaching to a teacher or tradition to the point where you have to exclude all others.

That makes for a sect, a sectarian mind, with which people cannot recognise wisdom or learn from anything unless it's in the exact words and conventions that they are used to. That keeps us very limited, narrow and frightened. People become afraid to listen to another teacher because it might cause doubt to arise in their minds, or they might feel that they are not being a loyal student of their particular tradition.

The Buddhist Path is to develop wisdom, and loyalty and devotion help in that. But if they are ends in themselves, then they are obstacles.

[RemiVedia]

Nice topic/thread: we have three teachers: Buddha, dhamma, sangha...or, we have one teacher, the heart...either way, these teachers are not imprisoning...any teacher beyond this, CAN imprison us, but only if we allow it...the causes of true happiness come from within, so the Kalama Sutta is relevant here, but more relevant is Buddha's "last" teaching on "heedfulness" & SELF-refuge...right?

[pirinosa]

I think we can certainly benefit from listening to offline teachers and getting personal meditation advice from them, as long as we don't attach too strongly to them.

However, if all our Dhamma conversations are beginning with "My" teacher says.... I think it might be time to review what's happening to us.

[ViagraPriceBuying]

"My" teacher says....

Yes, important point Aloka.

[OQmYckYz]

I have experienced in the past that as well as clarification concerning teachings, some dharma students can't seem to even make minor decisions in life without seeking their teachers suggestions first.

Clearly, in my opinion, for adults to elevate another human being to this kind of level is limiting their own abilities in general.

I really like the fact that teachers such as Ajahn Buddhadasa and Ajahn Sumedho discourage excessive clinging in this way.

Of course often there Buddhists who have never had an offline teacher/s and don't feel the need for one.

[cewIdeatovace]

i can really see the benefit of having a teacher who reads and understands pali, for instance, ive never been asked to 'worship' the teachers at my temple but i realize this can be a problem