[Mymnnarry]

I found this comment in another thread, I think that it is worth a whole topic on its own.

And let's forget he (Alonso)* is not driving the best car on the track.

* not in the original comment, added for clarity

Apart from Maldonado's win in Spain which I think is an aborration, all other races have been won by four teams.
I think that in order that the best drivers out there are Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Räikkönen, Rosberg, Webber and Kobayashi. This has to be taken into account.

I suggest that the best car out there is the Mercedes, but that Rosberg isn't quite the best driver and Schumacher who apart from having 4 retirements is past it anyway. This means that the Ferrari is probably the second best car, followed by the Red Bull and the McLaren at four.
I think that Webber and Vettel are currently able to drive a little around the "deficiencies" in the Red Bull and that the McLaren isn't quite there.

So I concur that whilst Alonso is not driving the best car on the track, it's not to say that it's a total pig either; it is after all really quite good if it's delivered 6 podiums.

[herbalviagra]

What do you mean by best?

In terms of raw speed it has ebbed and flowed all year between, IMHO, McLaren and RBR but RBR edges it as McLaren's Achilles heel is the rain/inters

Alonso has picked up the pieces with consistency to top WDC, not to mention Ferrari is an all round car that suits different conditions.

I can't see how you can say MGP is best car. Still has a problem from last year eating up its tyres. On a single lap they can give the top 3 teams a hard time but for race? Forget it unless its really cool conditions as in China & Monaco.

[tramadolwithall]

I suggest that the best car out there is the Mercedes, but that Rosberg isn't quite the best driver and Schumacher who apart from having 4 retirements is past it anyway.

Rollo, could you please pm me what your on? jk , mercedes in my opinion on an avg is the 4th best car.

As for the best car, I'd say Ferrari & Red Bull share that space, it seemed at least in the beginning of the season, they both needed some serious tweaks to get the car to work. Mclaren started pretty balanced but they have slowed in in-season development. Lotus is pretty decent as well it and if they were not doing so bad in quali they probably be leading both

Mercedes is good only in a very small window, and we only see that happen once in a while.

[casinobonuscxz]

What do you mean by best?

In terms of raw speed it has ebbed and flowed all year between, IMHO, McLaren and RBR but RBR edges it as McLaren's Achilles heel is the rain/inters

Alonso has picked up the pieces with consistency to top WDC, not to mention Ferrari is an all round car that suits different conditions.

I can't see how you can say MGP is best car. Still has a problem from last year eating up its tyres. On a single lap they can give the top 3 teams a hard time but for race? Forget it unless its really cool conditions as in China & Monaco.

Well stated Wedge! and a difficult question Rollo. From the horses mouth:
Mercedes motorsport boss Norbert Haug insists that the team needs to find half a second to match the pace of the F1 front-runners if it wants to win again this season.//
"The last two races have shown that we currently lack around half a second a lap to the pace-setters. This is clear to all in the team and we'll be doing our maximum to develop the car further and close the gap." Mercedes 'half a second off the pace' | F1 News | Jul 2012 | Crash.Net
That is not to say they are not "Fast" Their DDRS is very useful in quali but in race trim serves very little useful purpose. Plus they are prone to very rapid tire wear especially on their rears. McLaren and RED Bull are currently huge question marks as the former has just had their engine map cheating device banned, and McLaren have not had enough dry running with their latest developments, but both are at or near the top. Williams aberration is that they don't have a Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, or Raik' behind the wheel, otherwise they have great pace. Lotus and Ferrari are also in a group at the top, The distinction I draw is that up until now Red Bull, Ferrari, Williams, and Sauber seem to be less "temperature window" dependant on turning their tires on without overcooking them. McLaren has been lagging a little in that department. Lotus seems best suited to hot track temps or at least tracks with high speed corners that generate heat with tire load.
My short answer is that it is really dependant on the characteristics of each track, when assessing the cars alone without considering driver input. Here is graphed performance as positioned by results - track temp you might find interesting:

[Gabbavnf]

only .5 sec? All theyd need is to ditch the Schu and replace him with Alonso

[Saad Khan]

IMO Red Bull is the best all-round car (based on the amount of points they've scored), followed by Ferrari (works in all conditions, different tracks) . Mclaren is quick and slow, you never know what kind of weekend they will have. Lotus has pace on certain tires and hot ambient temperatures. Sauber and Williams are also quick but they don't have top drivers. Mercedes doesn't really have race pace.

[ThzinChang]

IMO Red Bull is the best all-round car (based on the amount of points they've scored), followed by Ferrari (works in all conditions, different tracks) . Mclaren is quick and slow, you never know what kind of weekend they will have. Lotus has pace on certain tires and hot ambient temperatures. Sauber and Williams are also quick but they don't have top drivers. Mercedes doesn't really have race pace.

hmm, perhaps you should reconsider, now that we know they were running illegal cars for the first 10 races

[AccusaJalsBub]

hmm, perhaps you should reconsider, now that we know they were running illegal cars for the first 10 races

I don't know, I have a feeling you're going to see a Red Bull on pole in Hungary.

[U2DnBGFE]

Red Bull is the fastest car out there ,and if only they would stop cheating (holes in floor,engine mapping,and what ever next) we may see how fast the car really is .Overall the best car and the one to beat is the Car from Marinello,i dont just think that it is down to Alonso being able to peddle it well,i think they are dark horses,and have more in reserve than we all think !

[rbVmVlQ2]

How can anyone say definitively which car is the best/fastest?

There are too many variables.

[AdSuiteAdobe]

I think it changes from week to week IMO
first 2 race weekends mclaren looked like runaway champs,
then, although not winning, it was clear on some weekend that the lotus was the best car out there
Mercedes, rose up, won china and seemed like a race winner for a few races (who knows if MSC would have won monaco)
RBR looked like champs in a few races
Ferrari were dogs in the first 7 races, even though they won malaysia, but now look like the car to beat
Sauber is always lurking around the corner and if perez had kept his cool, could have won malaysia
As is the Williams, who won Spain hands down and were the best car. In Valencia (spain again) maldonado and that car were charging up the grid and before his crash, seemed like the best car that day

Despite my disappointment with the macs, I will admit that this uncertainty sure makes the races interesting
The only thing I know for sure is that the HRT and Marussia are clearly the worst

Every other team save caterham, has qualified in the top 10 at some point

[Mangoman]

I think we should have a race between the cars to find out.

[PrareeLor]

Williams aberration is that they don't have a Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, or Raik' behind the wheel, otherwise they have great pace.

LOL a truer statement has never been made
reminds me of the years when clearly Toyota had a race winning car only to be foiled by their average drivers.
I used to rate Ralf highly, and he had some stellar performances with williams. But he was an absolute dog with the big contract at toyota
and don't get me started with trulli. (and glock to a lesser part)
That car should have won a few races in 2009. They along with Brawn had a huge advantage earlier on.

[zlopikanikanz]

In my opinion, Mercedes, Lotus, and McLaren were fastest cars only at the beginning of this year. However, it seems like they did not quite keep up with Ferrari's and RBRs development through the first half of year. Having said this, I would not jump to say that Ferrari is definitely the fastest car right now. Alonso qualified and run well the last two races, but to say that Ferrari is certainly the fastest car, I would like to see how his car performs relative to competition on a truly dry weekend. Some of recent Ferrari qualifying prowess as well as their first win this year could be attributed to Alonso's skill to drive in changing conditions. At the same time, I never really bought the idea that Alonso can supposedly make the car lap faster than it really is. The justification was that Massa's car was always much slower. However, it is clear that during the last two years, Massa has not been a good yardstick for measuring the raw speed of the car. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Ferrari may or may not be the fastest car, but it definitely has a good pace. And Alonso is a very good and consistent driver.

[Flistelib]

I don't know, I have a feeling you're going to see a Red Bull on pole in Hungary.

I believe that is a distinct possibility, but I can't help thinking that losing their low end torque advantage, and the loss of exhaust acceleration over the components while off throttle may unbalance the car and cause less efficient acceleration out of lower speed corners and more sliding through high speed corners with wheel spin that may cause added tire wear that wasn't a problem with their previous engine maping tweaks. This is just speculation, and even if true they may be able to compensate by a change in gearing, and suspension/rake adjustments. Plus the entire package works well aerodynamically, and the loss may be only minimal.
One thing I didn't mention is that what was thought to be Ferraris biggest design flaw may actually have turned into a substantial asset. Their front end pull rod suspension and its soft ride, improved aero flow, and lower CoG combined with improved exhaust/diffuser sealing at the rear end, as well as improved front wing efficiency allows them to run more rake (not as much as Red Bull) and this is IMconsideredO starting to pay dividends. Even Massa is more comfortable with the balance.

[Stoniaanapy]

I think you can treat fast and best as being two close, but distinctly separate categories.

Fastest Car:
1. Red Bull
2. McLaren
3. Ferrari
4. Lotus
5. Mercedes

Best Car:
1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull
3. McLaren
4. Sauber
5. Lotus

I think the Red Bull is the fastest car over a single lap on any given circuit but the Ferrari is the best car over many different circuits and track conditions. The Sauber isn't a great single lap car, nor is the Lotus, but both a great race cars that allow their drivers perform well on Sundays. The McLaren and the Red Bull are very quick over a lap but seem to have a smaller optimum performance window come race day.

I think if you had to pick a car, based on current form, you'd have to pick the Ferrari as it is close enough on Saturdays and very good on Sundays.

[Imagimifouxum]

I think that it depends on the track. In some races McLaren are fastest, in others the Red Bull. Ferrari is clearly a very good and reliable car too. The Lotus is above average, while the Merc is quite inconsistent.

[expomeHattePe]

I guess over the full season so far Red Bull has been the most consisent car. From what I can recall, they have been in top4 at every circuit so far. In terms of consistency next one has been Lotus, who have had only a couple off-weekends. Since Spain Ferrari has been very consistent. But in terms of peak performance many teams can be at the very sharp end of the field on the right weekend.

[erepsysoulperj]

only .5 sec? All theyd need is to ditch the Schu and replace him with Alonso

no way---ditch rosberg and Norberg (the latter should considerably lighten the load) and get Todt back to run the team, with MS in charge of "final approval" ala ferrari.....and add $$500,000,000 to their budget

[toreesi]

hey Billy's back!
Yer missus says hi