[Pznrrmaf]

Track limits are often debatable. i.e here in Hungary we have seen some drivers running wider and wider and there were no penalties. Although most did lose time rather than gain it.

Cheating is tough to call that clearly at times, look at the chicane at the top of the hill at Imola. Every driver would launch over those kerbs taking more and more speed through and putting more and more of there car off the track.

What I am trying to say is that it that situation every driver will "cheat" as much as they can to gain advantage by cutting the corner. The fia put high kerbs in place to stop the drivers doing that, but its the same everywhere. At turn 5 or 6 at Budapest they have for years run wider and more off the track to gain illegal time.

It is a different case in the Seb case. But as I posted on page one of another thread, they need to put gravel or grass back there in order to stop this. Because as I post also we have seen 2 or 3 same moves in years past. Sebs was no different to Schumachers at the same corner in 2003.

[WomanBreast40356]

Here it is again. Look at 2:40-2:45 ish and see Michael pull a very similar move. So really Seb is no different to others it the past. I have seen a few moves like this over the years.

[bredkumanfirst]

But as I posted on page one of another thread, they need to put gravel or grass back there in order to stop this. Because as I post also we have seen 2 or 3 same moves in years past. Sebs was no different to Schumachers at the same corner in 2003.

OMGosh I totally agree with this. I don't at all like the super-reliability these days, but if there's one thing I detest it's all the run-offs that don't punish mistake.! Grosjean has provided a blast to the past for me recently by first of all actually retiring from a strong position in Valencia, and then following that up in Silverstone - the sight of his Lotus beached in a gravel trap in qualifying evoked memories of the times when I really first started getting into F1 in the late 90s!

The other main reason Caterham and Marussia are struggling to reach the points is that when drivers ahead make mistakes and go off, they simply drive back on the track and continue, as you do on the PS2! (or 3!)

======================

I want to balance this post out with a bit of positivity: At least they don't normally have race restarts now! Remember those? A bunch of cars get wiped out in a collision (sp?) that's their own fault, the race is restarted, they jump in their spare cars and line up on the grid and get another chance. Oh that wound me up!

EDIT: With the benefit of hindsight, I deduce I have caused this topic to go off-track. At least it can use all the run-off to rejoin.

[Sdzqerty]

I find the Red Bull situation intriguing. And certainly some events this year (related to rules and regulations) have caught attention. However, the difficult matter is, how should we evaluate them? It is easy to call them cheaters, but then again... they haven't been disqualified yet! Not even once! It is not like they are blatantly cheating, but they are going just as far as the loopholes possibly allow them to go, without getting DQ'd. So they are still playing by the rules - they are pushing the limits, but even RBR has the limits! They know, what they can do and what they can't without getting DQ'd.

Well, according to what I understand they could have easily been DQ for breaking the parc ferme rules, even without the clarification by FIA.

Make up your mind Garry! A couple of years ago you were complaining that the rules are too restrictive and allow zero innovation. Now Red Bull starts pommeling the competition for the past 2 years by their fair interpretations of the rules and you get all cranky. I'm not sure why you dislike Vettel so much, but it's his right to complain and have a reaction to the situations around him from time to time. I really like the guy because he's not some corporate zombie who nods and smiles all the time, but actually gives an opinion. As for Helmut Marko, we share the same view about that creep.

Bieber is the most fake athlete I know, arrogant to the extreme and overrated even more.

As for the rrogance of Horner, Marco, Vettel, well, that's not cheating; merely classless.

I never said it was cheating, just merely used the opportunity to launch an attack on them .

[SpeavaJap]

Here it is again. Look at 2:40-2:45 ish and see Michael pull a very similar move. So really Seb is no different to others it the past. I have seen a few moves like this over the years.

Which is why the rules have been clarified to clearly state that if you leave the track, you can only rejoin if you do so safely and without gaining an advantage. It's not rocket salad....

[Janarealiti]

Bieber is the most fake athlete I know, arrogant to the extreme and overrated even more.

I am less familiar with teen idols than you and unfortunately can not say anything about the character of that singer.
On a more serious note, I think that Lewis is by far more arrogant than Seb. But I guess that this is a matter of personal bias as well

[JessicaLin]

Well, looks like the rules actually were not completely clear, because FIA had to clarify them after the issues. If rules are clear, there is nothing to clarify, right?

The rules on ride height are unambiguous. You cannot alter the suspension settings in Parc Ferme without using tools and incurring the associated penalty.

Red bull had a switch that allowed them to do this.

Now, I'm sure Red Bulls*%t will claim that just because the ability was there, doesn't mean they used it (sounds familiar doesn't it). However, their qualifying pace wasn't as strong as in the last couple of meetings Coincidence non?

[squeerisott]

Looks like the matter is resolved. FIA made sure Red Bull wouldn't "interpret" the rules in their own fashion.

Bieber is the most fake athlete I know, arrogant to the extreme and overrated even more.

Okay, if you think Vettel is arrogant and you don't like him, then that's cool. Overrated? Youngest and double WDC.

[angeldimmon]

Overrated? Youngest and double WDC.

[unmalryAlalry]

Bieber is the most fake athlete I know, arrogant to the extreme and overrated even more.

I agree but not for athlete at all, just F1 driver. Thank God F1 officials know what is good for the sport and cut the wings of his illegal car.

[astonmartinrx371]

Track limits are often debatable. i.e here in Hungary we have seen some drivers running wider and wider and there were no penalties. Although most did lose time rather than gain it.

Cheating is tough to call that clearly at times, look at the chicane at the top of the hill at Imola. Every driver would launch over those kerbs taking more and more speed through and putting more and more of there car off the track.

What I am trying to say is that it that situation every driver will "cheat" as much as they can to gain advantage by cutting the corner. The fia put high kerbs in place to stop the drivers doing that, but its the same everywhere. At turn 5 or 6 at Budapest they have for years run wider and more off the track to gain illegal time.

It is a different case in the Seb case. But as I posted on page one of another thread, they need to put gravel or grass back there in order to stop this. Because as I post also we have seen 2 or 3 same moves in years past. Sebs was no different to Schumachers at the same corner in 2003.

This brings up a great point that seems to be overlooked. When a pass is made off track people are up in arms and to that point I can agree. But really any time a driver leaves the track by intentionally taking a wide line they are gaining advantage in the form of time. In Hungary there were a lot of cars going four wheels off track at various corners.

Alonso's pole lap in Germany was made on a lap where his car clearly went all four wheels off track on the final corner. Yet the lap counted. Food for thought.




As for the ride height issues, I haven't seen that much about it. I know on the Speed coverage they mentioned that the RB system really isn't different then that of several other teams, yet nobody is crying about the "several other teams". The nature of the sport is to be more critical of cars doing well.

[MexicoCity]

Alonso's pole lap in Germany was made on a lap where his car clearly went all four wheels off track on the final corner. Yet the lap counted. Food for thought.

As was Vettel's fastest lap in Hungary, but I agree

[RogHammon]

As was Vettel's fastest lap in Hungary, but I agree

Vettel and several others in Hungary I think. But the rule should exist all the time IMO.

[artofeyyy]

It would certainly be easier to apply consistently, as otherwise you need to prove an advantage...

[Shiplyopidomi]

Isn't this a bit self incriminating?

...
"We have never made adjustments by hand," he is quoted by Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.
"I don't know why the others get so upset -- we happen to know that Ferrari used something like that for a year," Marko said.

Ferrari also had hand-adjuster - Marko | News | Motorsport.com

[neniajany]

Isn't this a bit self incriminating?


Ferrari also had hand-adjuster - Marko | News | Motorsport.com

I don't see how that incriminates anyone myself. It was mentioned during the race coverage on SpeedTV that other teams on the grid might still currently have the same system as RB that require no tools to adjust ride height. I really don't see the issue unless the FIA has evidence that someone actually changed the ride height on a car, and really can't see why they have to change it. If the FIA wants to make sure the knob isn't moved, they can plant a sticker type seal on it like they do so many other things.

[space-on-s]

If the FIA wants to make sure the knob isn't moved, they can plant a sticker type seal on it like they do so many other things.

..or have them remove everything that remotely looks like something that can be simply adjusted by hand!
And aren't Marko's remarks just about like saying: "They were doing it, too"? That's what i meant by self incriminating.

[wmzeto]

Adrian Newey is smarter than the FIA technical committee. They are masterful at interpreting the regs and designing around them. So are most of the top designers. Take your pick, Redbull is just the latest to have the target pasted to their chest. How long was it that Ferrari were the "Cheats"? Benneton/Renault? McLaren? Lotus? Tyrell? as long as there are regulations at curbing speed, technology and cost, there will be someone smart enough to find a way around them.... If they weren't, F1 would be boring as all hell.

[hechicxxrr]

I don't see how that incriminates anyone myself. It was mentioned during the race coverage on SpeedTV that other teams on the grid might still currently have the same system as RB that require no tools to adjust ride height. I really don't see the issue unless the FIA has evidence that someone actually changed the ride height on a car, and really can't see why they have to change it. If the FIA wants to make sure the knob isn't moved, they can plant a sticker type seal on it like they do so many other things.

Exactly. Prove they actually changed the ride height. Every car has adjustable ride height. If I'm as limited on testing as F1 teams are, when I do have hte opportunity to test and I'm ALLOWED to adjust ride height, i'd want it to be as easy as possible, without tools. That is like saying you have to put your spark plugs INSIDE the engine to ensure you can't change them easily.

[viagra_generic]

If I'm as limited on testing as F1 teams are, when I do have hte opportunity to test and I'm ALLOWED to adjust ride height, i'd want it to be as easy as possible, without tools.

Regs stipulate that it be adjustable only with tools.