Massa will help Alonso! - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**famosetroie** · 10-21-2010, 11:52 AM

Wow, people are so short sighted... Alonso is no.1 because he has had better pace than Massa all season and Massa is well out of the title fight. If I were a team boss, and a driver who didn't have a chance at the c'ship wouldn't support the driver that did, he would be fired on the spot.

F1 is a team sport, not Alonso racing, not Massa racing, not Kimi racing, it's Scuderia Ferrari. Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall?

Who was the no.1 driver in Ferrari 2008-2009?
Had Massa been faster all season than Alonso, had better results, he wouldn't have been forced to be where he is now. It's his own fault. Look at all the other teams...

Say if Button is unable to win the c'ship and Lewis is, will Button try and help him or try taking him out of the race and the c'ship?

**payowlirriply** · 10-21-2010, 02:53 PM

So I guess 2008 didn't count?

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

Yes what a scandal...shame on Massa and Ferrari

**sitescools** · 10-21-2010, 02:54 PM

Perhaps it's just Massa being smart. He has 2 choices. He either starts giving his best at Ferrari or move to another team and start his down hill way to his retirement. Massa is lucky he doesn't have some of you guys as his agent.... you would probably get him in a HRT in a couple of years.

**soineeLom** · 10-21-2010, 03:13 PM

Take your seat , and impress them with your ability , and your loyalty .

That can make you number one .

It might, but then again if that was ever going to happen I think it would have done by now. Felipe served his Ferrari apprenticeship alongside Schumacher then so very nearly won the title alongside the highly paid Raikkonen. After 2008 Massa might have felt his time had come at Ferrari, but then along came Alonso.

I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again.

**Drysnyaty** · 10-21-2010, 03:59 PM

Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go.

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

That's not unusual, you're both right.

However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance.

The one time he was in contention for a win, Ferrari cheated (and don't say they did not: the FIA and the WMSC both ruled that they used team orders) and poor Felipe was robbed.

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

**blankostaroe** · 10-21-2010, 04:12 PM

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

But fair play to the Scuderia, they at least had the decency to shove wads of Lira up Irvine & Barrichello's rear ends........

Rubens may even have had some Euro's deposited also, lucky fella, eh?

**Jon Woodgate** · 10-21-2010, 04:14 PM

Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall?

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle

**blankostaroe** · 10-21-2010, 04:16 PM

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle

Ah yes, the three wheels on my wagon show.......

**lXvtm0ox** · 10-21-2010, 05:33 PM

I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again. Yes, his best chance was 2008, but we might forget that he played supportive role on Kimi a year before. He would not play submissive role all time, next year he can give better attempts in the first half of season as the approach of strategy is decided to a definitive point based on points collected by the drivers.

**Loopyjr** · 10-21-2010, 06:01 PM

So I guess 2008 didn't count?

Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport!

Your thought process is far to rational for some people here to comprehend

**didrexx** · 10-21-2010, 09:00 PM

Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go. He did it to Kimi in 2007 at Interlagos, Kimi did it to him in 2008 at Shanghai, why would it be different.

Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy.

After the German GP he said he would not help Alonso and race for himself. Alonso, however, went on to repay Ferrari's faith whereas Massa, to put it bluntly, has been more chump than champ.

**sleelverrex** · 10-21-2010, 10:27 PM

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

And Irvine got his chance at No. 1 when MS broke his leg.

Massa should just shut up, and support Alonso for the remaining races this year. Next year he can try to beat Alonso on track early in the season so that Ferrari might treat him more fairly. After (should I say if?) that fails, then he can always hope for the type of chance Irvine had.

**RichardHaads** · 10-22-2010, 12:42 AM

'atta boy Felipe baby

May the forza be with you

**WhonyGataxott** · 10-22-2010, 12:46 AM

Why is it a news item now?

Good point.

**WhonyGataxott** · 10-22-2010, 12:48 AM

The only problem with this is does anyone actually think he'll be close enough to the top 5 to be of any help? I dont, he's not shown that kind of pace all year.

How easily one forgets the GP that he was about to win if it wasn't for team orders, I wonder how that happened if "he's not shown that kind of pace all year."?

**WhonyGataxott** · 10-22-2010, 12:49 AM

At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it.

Brawn and Todt are/were other kind of people than LdM and Domenicali.

**WhonyGataxott** · 10-22-2010, 12:50 AM

Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy.

So what exactly happened in 2008?!

Never say never before thinking twice!

**WhonyGataxott** · 10-22-2010, 12:51 AM

Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle

And the 1999, Malaysian GP never happened?!

**niemamczasu** · 10-22-2010, 02:30 AM

...However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance....snipped...

Ferrari's investment is in Ferrari, not in Alonso. Any Ferrari driver knows that the team is greater than any driver, so the fact that they have Alonso is because Alonso is good enough. I agree that they focus on one driver, and that his salary would mean that he SHOULD be the faster of the two, but Alonso still needed to take his place in the team and show his value to the team, not vice versa.

I find it surprising that other teams don't have the same self worth. I've mentioned in another thread that I believe that McLaren painted themselves into a corner by not being able to fire or threaten to fire Alonso when he stepped put of line, because all they had was an as yet unproven rookie with potential as an alternative (who has since obviously proved himself well).

But back to Massa. I think he has spent most of this season recovering from his accident last year. I remember it took Hakkinen a long time to get back to full strength years ago. It's not just speed over one lap. Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever. Just what I believe. And I've always been a fan of his, so I hope he gets back up there for next season.

**sleelverrex** · 10-22-2010, 02:57 AM

[QUOTE=fandango;853309]Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever.[QUOTE]

What he's missing is a teammate who's indifferent to him, and not trying to undermine him. He had that in Kimi and he flourished. He did well under MS's wing as well.

Alonso is slicing & dicing him, and he doesn't have the wit or carisma to respond.

10-21-2010, 11:52 AM	#21
famosetroie Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 406 Senior Member	Wow, people are so short sighted... Alonso is no.1 because he has had better pace than Massa all season and Massa is well out of the title fight. If I were a team boss, and a driver who didn't have a chance at the c'ship wouldn't support the driver that did, he would be fired on the spot. F1 is a team sport, not Alonso racing, not Massa racing, not Kimi racing, it's Scuderia Ferrari. Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall? Who was the no.1 driver in Ferrari 2008-2009? Had Massa been faster all season than Alonso, had better results, he wouldn't have been forced to be where he is now. It's his own fault. Look at all the other teams... Say if Button is unable to win the c'ship and Lewis is, will Button try and help him or try taking him out of the race and the c'ship? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 02:53 PM	#22
payowlirriply Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	So I guess 2008 didn't count? Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport! Yes what a scandal...shame on Massa and Ferrari Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 02:54 PM	#23
sitescools Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	Perhaps it's just Massa being smart. He has 2 choices. He either starts giving his best at Ferrari or move to another team and start his down hill way to his retirement. Massa is lucky he doesn't have some of you guys as his agent.... you would probably get him in a HRT in a couple of years. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 03:13 PM	#24
soineeLom Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 328 Senior Member	Take your seat , and impress them with your ability , and your loyalty . That can make you number one . It might, but then again if that was ever going to happen I think it would have done by now. Felipe served his Ferrari apprenticeship alongside Schumacher then so very nearly won the title alongside the highly paid Raikkonen. After 2008 Massa might have felt his time had come at Ferrari, but then along came Alonso. I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 03:59 PM	#25
Drysnyaty Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 569 Senior Member	Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go. Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport! That's not unusual, you're both right. However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance. The one time he was in contention for a win, Ferrari cheated (and don't say they did not: the FIA and the WMSC both ruled that they used team orders) and poor Felipe was robbed. At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 04:12 PM	#26
blankostaroe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it. But fair play to the Scuderia, they at least had the decency to shove wads of Lira up Irvine & Barrichello's rear ends........ Rubens may even have had some Euro's deposited also, lucky fella, eh? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 04:14 PM	#27
Jon Woodgate Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	Just like when Eddie was going up against Mika, who was the supporting driver that year, can anyone recall? Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 04:16 PM	#28
blankostaroe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle Ah yes, the three wheels on my wagon show....... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 05:33 PM	#29
lXvtm0ox Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 417 Senior Member	I think Felipe's chance of leading Ferrari has been and gone. He can either settle in as a supporting act, or look to move elsewhere but I don't think he'll get a shot at the WDC again. Yes, his best chance was 2008, but we might forget that he played supportive role on Kimi a year before. He would not play submissive role all time, next year he can give better attempts in the first half of season as the approach of strategy is decided to a definitive point based on points collected by the drivers. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 06:01 PM	#30
Loopyjr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	So I guess 2008 didn't count? Driver, out of contention for the title, declares he will help his title-contending team mate. Gee, never thought I'd see that in motorsport! Your thought process is far to rational for some people here to comprehend Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 09:00 PM	#31
didrexx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	Why is it a news item now? It is natural that you help your teammate if he has a shot at title and you don't, you will help him with three races to go. He did it to Kimi in 2007 at Interlagos, Kimi did it to him in 2008 at Shanghai, why would it be different. Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy. After the German GP he said he would not help Alonso and race for himself. Alonso, however, went on to repay Ferrari's faith whereas Massa, to put it bluntly, has been more chump than champ. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-21-2010, 10:27 PM	#32
sleelverrex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 460 Senior Member	At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it. And Irvine got his chance at No. 1 when MS broke his leg. Massa should just shut up, and support Alonso for the remaining races this year. Next year he can try to beat Alonso on track early in the season so that Ferrari might treat him more fairly. After (should I say if?) that fails, then he can always hope for the type of chance Irvine had. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2010, 12:42 AM	#33
RichardHaads Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 528 Senior Member	'atta boy Felipe baby May the forza be with you Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-22-2010, 12:46 AM	#34
WhonyGataxott Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 632 Senior Member	Why is it a news item now? Good point. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-22-2010, 12:48 AM	#35
WhonyGataxott Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 632 Senior Member	The only problem with this is does anyone actually think he'll be close enough to the top 5 to be of any help? I dont, he's not shown that kind of pace all year. How easily one forgets the GP that he was about to win if it wasn't for team orders, I wonder how that happened if *"he's not shown that kind of pace all year."*? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-22-2010, 12:49 AM	#36
WhonyGataxott Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 632 Senior Member	At least when they shafted Irvine and Barrichello they were honest and upfront about it. Brawn and Todt are/were other kind of people than LdM and Domenicali. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2010, 12:50 AM	#37
WhonyGataxott Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 632 Senior Member	Massa threw his toys out of his pram (and yes, so did Alonso) because he was never chosen to be Ferrari's Golden Boy. So what exactly happened in 2008?! Never say never before thinking twice! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2010, 12:51 AM	#38
WhonyGataxott Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 632 Senior Member	Well the 'supporting driver' was Salo during the 'supportive period' but end of the day we all remember 'that' tyre change which really did aid the championship battle And the 1999, Malaysian GP never happened?! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2010, 02:30 AM	#39
niemamczasu Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 440 Senior Member	...However, I can't escape the feeling that Ferrari were going to support their investment no matter what, and that Alonso was their number one driver long before the season started. Poor Massa never stood a chance....snipped... Ferrari's investment is in Ferrari, not in Alonso. Any Ferrari driver knows that the team is greater than any driver, so the fact that they have Alonso is because Alonso is good enough. I agree that they focus on one driver, and that his salary would mean that he SHOULD be the faster of the two, but Alonso still needed to take his place in the team and show his value to the team, not vice versa. I find it surprising that other teams don't have the same self worth. I've mentioned in another thread that I believe that McLaren painted themselves into a corner by not being able to fire or threaten to fire Alonso when he stepped put of line, because all they had was an as yet unproven rookie with potential as an alternative (who has since obviously proved himself well). But back to Massa. I think he has spent most of this season recovering from his accident last year. I remember it took Hakkinen a long time to get back to full strength years ago. It's not just speed over one lap. Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever. Just what I believe. And I've always been a fan of his, so I hope he gets back up there for next season. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-22-2010, 02:57 AM	#40
sleelverrex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 460 Senior Member	[QUOTE=fandango;853309]Perhaps this sounds too mysterious, but Massa has lacked something this season in the overall package that cannot be explained by tyres or his teammate or whatever.[QUOTE] What he's missing is a teammate who's indifferent to him, and not trying to undermine him. He had that in Kimi and he flourished. He did well under MS's wing as well. Alonso is slicing & dicing him, and he doesn't have the wit or carisma to respond. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote