[Siffidiolla]

it would be a bit unfair for Ferrari to get docked points
and McLaren get away with the save fuel in Turkey

Depends though, doesn't it?

We've done this one to death nearly, but the fuel checks in scrutineering after the race bore out the save fuel warnings given over the radio to both McLaren pilots.

Irrespective of whether or not Alonso was faster than Massa or not, it is for Alonso to make a pass, not for his team to facilitate it. Provided they don't take each other out, Massa, being in the lead, is entitled to defend.

After all, the rules as they currently are............... etc etc.

[Poll Pitt]

Irrespective of whether or not Alonso was faster than Massa or not, it is for Alonso to make a pass, not for his team to facilitate it. Provided they don't take each other out, Massa, being in the lead, is entitled to defend.

Massa is also entitled to let Alonso pass if he so chooses.

Which is exactly what Ferrari will argue.

[Siffidiolla]

Massa is also entitled to let Alonso pass if he so chooses.

Which is exactly what Ferrari will argue.

Indeed he is. But look at the facts;

Massa was ahead, and had already defended.

Then comes the radio message....

All of a sudden, he slows down and lets Alonso go by.

Smell a rat?

[Poll Pitt]

Indeed he is. But look at the facts;

Massa was ahead, and had already defended.

Then comes the radio message....

All of a sudden, he slows down and lets Alonso go by.

Smell a rat?

They will argue:

That the radio message made him reconsider, and that he was not coerced into pulling over by the team, but made that decision by himself.

That there was no explicit command for Massa to move over, and as such it does not constitute a team order.



Ferrari clearly wanted Massa to move over but Ferrari, by not issuing a direct order, did not violate the team orders rule.

[DoctoBuntonTen]

Ferrari clearly wanted Massa to move over but Ferrari, by not issuing a direct order, did not violate the team orders rule.

If Rob had said to Felipe "Fernando's quicker, you'll need to up your pace" I can see that being viewed as Felipe's decision.

The problem for Ferrari was the way in which the "instruction" was given to Felipe. The words used may not have constituted a direct order, but the way in which they were delivered suggested otherwise, certainly enough for the stewards.

I think the penalty already imposed is sufficient. Hopefully the WMSC will simply review article 39.1 and not penalise Ferrari further.

[Mmccqrtb]

Indeed he is. But look at the facts;

Massa was ahead, and had already defended.

Then comes the radio message....

All of a sudden, he slows down and lets Alonso go by.

Smell a rat?

sure do!!!!!

who could not smell a rat???????

Indeed, it smells like and must the same rat who tells Button, "we need to conserve fuel...." when he is behind Lewis and looks to be threatening him as in Turkey and elsewhere.....

[DoctoBuntonTen]

Indeed, it smells like and must the same rat who tells Button, "we need to conserve fuel...." when he is behind Lewis and looks to be threatening him as in Turkey and elsewhere.....

If the stewards have reason to believe "conserve fuel" to be a team order then they can examine the data available to them which would show whether fuel consumption was marginal or not.

[Todilrdc]

"It was Smedley's apology to Massa immediately after he moved aside for Alonso, plus the clear unhappiness from the Brazilian driver after the race, which pointed to the fact that Massa had been ordered to move aside – rather than had chosen to do so with his own free will.

Sources suggest that part of Ferrari's defence will hinge on the fact that no clear order was given for Massa to give up his lead – so therefore no actual breach of the regulations could have taken place."

From autosport

[DoctoBuntonTen]

Sources suggest that part of Ferrari's defence will hinge on the fact that no clear order was given for Massa to give up his lead – so therefore no actual breach of the regulations could have taken place."

From autosport

The rule does not say team orders have to be clear. In fact there is no definition of what form a team order must take for a team to be in breach of the rule, nor is there a definition of team orders, only that they are prohibited.

Does make proving or disproving their existence rather difficult

[Todilrdc]

Allo, Allo! Listen carefully because I will only repeat this once:.................

[Pateeffelty]

Allo, Allo! Listen carefully because I will only repeat this once:.................

PML

[insightmike]

If Rob had said to Felipe "Fernando's quicker, you'll need to up your pace" I can see that being viewed as Felipe's decision.

The problem for Ferrari was the way in which the "instruction" was given to Felipe. The words used may not have constituted a direct order, but the way in which they were delivered suggested otherwise, certainly enough for the stewards.

I think the penalty already imposed is sufficient. Hopefully the WMSC will simply review article 39.1 and not penalise Ferrari further.

I agree.

[denyffishh]

it would be a bit unfair for Ferrari to get docked points
and McLaren get away with the save fuel in Turkey

first of all, it has been proven beyond any doubt that they indeed needed to save fuel, as did every other team on the gird in that race.

2nd: I refer you to post #15, if you truly believe what you said.

[sitescools]

So their are chances that FIA will take the reasonable decision

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86478

[Pateeffelty]

Well, t's that. They are found guilty but there is no further punishment.

Fair result.

[BoboStin]

Well, t's that. They are found guilty but there is no further punishment.

Fair result.

You mean there was a punishment (100.000 fine) and that was upheld. Basicly this ruling means that team orders are allowed from day 1. It doesn't matter wheter it is the first or the last race. Team orders is allowed. I'm fine with it as long it is clear. No code language or other hidden signs. Just say it out loud. Nr 2 get out of the way for nr 1!!

[markkisil]

They now must remove the rule banning team orders and let F1 carry on from here.

[DoctoBuntonTen]

It seems that, as the stewards found, Ferrari were guilty of breaking the team orders rule which remains in place at present. However, that rule will be reviewed

[vvxtiopmx]

Fining Ferrari $100,000 is like fining you and me $7.

[DoctoBuntonTen]

Fining Ferrari $100,000 is like fining you and me $7.

AFAIK the $100,000 was made up of two lots of $50,000 for two offences - breaching the team orders rule and bringing the sport into disrepute. That was the maximum fine the stewards could impose.