Richards hits out at F1 newcomers
 

http://www.racers-republic.com/f1/ne...t-f1-newcomers

Prodrive boss David Richards has hit out at the three teams that joined the F1 grid this season, insisting that they have harmed the chances that other potential entrants have of racing the funds needed to compete in the sport.
it is Aholes like David Richards getting a spot on the grid then not turning up because they could not use custom cars

the other teams built cars in about the same time that he had

damage the sport.

what did prodrive DO ?

The only way I would want Richards in F1 would be to compete against the potential new Villeneuve team...and to lose miserably at it.

I still blame him for ruining BAR.

Fousto will love this thread LOL!

First of all Richards is a successful racing manager unlike those who are runnng the new teams - he actually understands what it takes and has done it. Including many professional teams that have used their services covertly.

And it was the FIA that stopped him from runing the Mclaren "b" team - the Woking people would bever give cars to someone that not competent.

At the time Richards was correct about what would happen to new teams iin f1. And the new teams have not at all made a positive contribution.

Exactly what is the point of being a new team these days? Since Bahrain the gap between the quickest driver in f1, Vettel and the new teams has INCREASED.

Ay Sakhir it was between 5 and 9 seconds and at Hungaroring it was 6 and 9 seconds.

Spending millions to just be part of the f1 show? Whats the point? Do they really believe that in 3 years or even 5 years they are going to win as Gascoyne proclaims? http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...es/roflmao.gif

The only reason there are new teams is because they are the result of the FOTA-FIA war and Mosley beeded to have a grid just in case.

They are an error but one that now exists in the rules and this experiment is continuing.

It should be ended. The days are gone when a new team on its own can become a legitimate competitor.

Will there ever be new teams that are not also rans? Not if they independent racing teams. It will require a partnership with an auto manufacturer at least. And those days are probably gone for some time.

The ruination of BAR was the bear hug that Honda gave it - an f1 team cannot be run along the lines that Japan see fit - committee and faxes.

In the end Honda understood and employed Ross Brawn but systemic forces defeated that one in no small measure to the benefit if Brawn.

I sense sour grapes from Richards, if he thinks that the newbies have damaged F1's reputation, then he needs help.

The 3 of them have all proved actually that setting up a new team on limited budgets and a limited timescale AND becoming competitive is a lot tougher than first thought, sure Ross Brawn made it look easy last year but lets not forget, he had 2 of the best drivers in his cars, a state of the art facility to work from and a sizeable cash injection from Honda, The 3 newbies have none of those luxuries to play with.

It would have been easier for Richards though had he been allowed to run customer McLaren chassis', hell Lotus managed to get a factory build up a workforce AND design and build an F1 car in HALF the time it managed Richards to put together his failed attempt to run those customer cars.

What can you do about it like, kick them out for being too slow? That would be just plain wrong. Its best to just leave them alone and let them build up a base to eventually be competitive, for pete's sake its only their first year and it just so happens to be a year where the Red Bull RB6 is making everybody else's cars including their own look ordinary.

They deserve credit for even risking to take the plunge in the sport in the first place.

Its not important when a GP2 car would be quicker than a supposed f1 car?

Whether Richards is something of a sourgrapes complaint or not, he is correct and, your reasons for permitting the new teams are the reasons why they are a mistake and remain a mistake.

Yes, they should be thrown out and no new teams should be introduced because they will be no better as is currently constituted.

These mobile chicanes have done nothing positive for f1 and Kovaleinen's error might have cost Webber his life.

Of course Lotus is a vehicle for that podgey loudmouth Gascoyne and the ego of Tony Fernandes.

I wonder just how long Branson's interest is going to last while Nick Wirth experiments.

That f1 permits the HRT is a disgrace. The car is so bad that any driver in the seat will look as bad as the other.

F1 has become a cutting edge technology arena that rivals aerospace and it is a pretense that low-budget racing teams can succeed or belong.

The only new teams that ought to be permitted are those directly linked to international auto manufacturers and ways to accomodate them ought to be found.

The f1 days of independents entering and succeeding as did Williams belong to another era.

And to boost grids in the meantime, third cars or second teams ought to be permitted.

Richards is a Prix!! He screwed Bar after they finally got it on a winning track.
He can't raise the money to come to F1 because people know he is a total asshole.
JV, Jock Clear, and Willis finally developed that team into a respectable challenger only to be screwed by Richards trying to design a car for Button instead of just having Button up the game. Brawn screwed the whole team up designing a car for Button and Button even confirmed the rumor. Button uses less aero and relies on smooth mechanical grip and tries to save tires although he can't "hustle" the car like lewis. Button would be very good in Indy Cars. The JV team if approved will quickly surpass the current "New" teams. Brawn has a dilemma as he will have to build a roller car for MS while trying to keep from screwing his faster driver Nico. Prix Richards is like the guy down the street from the Mercedes factory with a "Used Car Lot" claiming all the cars were pre-owned by German Grandmothers!!

Dave Richards is a legend.. http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/styles/World/icons/icon14.gif
I don't necessarily agree with him on this occasion but he is a leg end IMO. http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...ies/tongue.gif

Last time I looked Button was the reigning world champion and has the number 1 on his Mclaren.

He won his championship by more points than either Kimi or Lewis.

Unlike the current dominant car drivers made far better use of it then they are and, won his title with a team that had less money that the previous years winner driving Ferrari and Mclaren.

The odds of Jenson ever racing in a loser series such as IndyCar are even less than peace in the middle-east.

He may be friends with Jimmie Johnson but has never even expressed interest at even attending a NASCAR race never mind the decrepid openwheel series in the US.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Indycars ["shudder"]!

Absolutely.
I am amazed and appalled at the viscious attacks that people on this forum have made on Richards. A man that is highly respected and regarded in all the series in European and Japanese motor racing.

Don't know what Dave Richards is complaining about really, though I really want to see Prodrive in F1 one day because I'm they will make a fine team, just a pity Richards didn't want to put Prodrive forward this time around.

Quite an over simplification there of what has actually been happening. The new teams progressively closed the gap on the established teams throughout the first half of the season. The new teams most competitive outing since was at the European Grand Prix in Valencia, where they were quite a lot closer to the front than they had been at Bahrain.
Since then Lotus has ceased development on the T127 and Virgin have also started work on next year's car. So there has been an inevitable drop off in relative performance as the likes of Red Bull and Ferrari in the title hunt continue to plough resources into their 2010 cars.

Also comparing the new teams to Vettel in Bahrain and Hungary is misleading. The gap from almost everyone to Sebastian Vettel increased at Hungary. It didn't matter whether it was Bruno Senna or Fernando Alonso. The Red Bull was brilliantly fast at the Hungaroring. Only Mark Webber was closer to Vettel in Hungary than in Bahrain and that was probably because he made a mistake in Bahrain qualifying.
It is worth noting that comparing Chandhok (handicapped in Bahrain by having zero time in a car put together five minutes before qualifying) to Yamamoto (handicapped in Hungary by being Sakon Yamamoto), Yamamoto was actually closer to Vettel in Hungary than Chandhok was in Bahrain.

They're not an error. They're worthwhile additions to the grand prix grid, circulating at roughly Minardi pace, something they should be quite happy with for their first season.

The gap was a bit better at Monte Carlo, at Silverstone is was still at 6 to 8 seconds.

During the race even if it is 4 seconds per laps slower - as it was between Webber and Kovaleinen - it is still too much.

And no matter how soon they start on theyr 2011 cars - how many years will ittake them to catch up? The other teams are not going to slow thrir rate of development and the more stable the rules the more entrenched better able and funded teams become.

In today's era there is no room for a Minardi. It is not the 1980's.

Romantic notions of the new teams does not avoid the reality that in today's f1, new teams as they currently are constructed has no place - they should be seeking to associate with auto-manufacturers. There is no other way other than with a powerful technology partner.

Richards is probably the biggest loser that has every showed his face in an F1 paddock. I still suspect BAR where using there underweight "fuel as ballast" system in 2004 which accounts for his only good results as team manager... His scheme to buy his way onto the f1 podium/race wins as a Mcleran B team just proves his unwillingness to actually work for results... Flav has more integrity then Richards... And how anyone can wish for this guys return to F1 just blows my mind!!!

Richards may have a point, as, as much as I'm loathe to admit it, may Saint Devote once one looks past his lack of historical perspective and the absurd idea that they should somehow be 'thrown out'. There have, after all, been far worse teams in F1 than the three current newcomers; despite my reservations I think they're doing their best in the difficult financial circumstances; and people should give such efforts time, a commodity lacking nowadays. But I must say that I also agree with Ecclestone that, as brutal as it may sound, the one of most value to the sport and about whose continued participation I'm most bothered is Lotus because of the name. Hard, but true.

As for Richards' comments, it would be useful if he set them in proper context, for example by giving details of exactly what happened to cause him to cancel/postpone the Prodrive entry. This would surely have been a proper undertaking, and an example to the rest of the grid, had Richards lived up to his word, of cost-cutting in action.

Evidence? I have no particular affection for David Richards, but struggle to think of illegal Prodrive entries in other formulae, and there's no point making such comments without back-up.

Do I need evidence to suspect something... NO

However, At the time Honda where DQ'd, and banned from the following 2 races the theory was the FIA where clued in on the cars ability to run underweight by a whistle blower ex BAR/Honda Mechanic, Since it was also Honda's first real result of that season when they where investigated, I suspect FIA where clued in prior to the season and waited until they actually had something to take away from the team before acting on the tip. Now I think it makes more sense that the whistle blower was likely let go at the end of the 2004 season then early on in the 2005... so you do the math...

And using Henners88's logic... is there proof they didn't run the car underweight in 2004? http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...ies/tongue.gif

Sorry mate but geez, what a load of boloney.

You seem to forget my good man that Formula One NEEDS the independent teams more than any other. Without them what would we have, a corporate precession which would turn fans away in their droves.

This year for the 3 newbies has been a very steep learning curve but for Virgin and Lotus at least, they will benefit greatly having a season under their belts and coming back stronger using that knowledge to good effect with next year's cars, and in my view, despite the struggles, they have aquitted themselves to Formula 1 extremely well indeed presenting themselves very professionally and with promising futures. The last thing I would label them after just 2 thirds of a season is total embarassments as you seem to be doing, if you want to know what real embarassing teams are, look no further than here.

http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/index.html

Oh and by the way, who has the best car and is leading both world championships at the moment, Red Bull who despite Mateschitz's millions are essentlally a Renault customer team, in other words, AN INDEPENDENT TEAM.

In what sense is Virgin not a corporate entity? Or Lotus, for that matter?

All fair points.

Agree with Richards just about 100%.

He has proven time and time again that he knows how to build cars and knows how to run a team.

What he's saying is spot on. How are any new newcomers supposed to raise funds when the current crop have been nothing short of laughable in their efforts. Half way through the season their biggest claim is that all 6 of them finished a race together. Ho hum!

If Bernie would put her personal issues aside a moment then we might have Prodrive in the F1 paddocks. Instead they're back out to play in the dirt while we discuss welcoming a new outfit which may or may not have any experience in the game.

Oh, and to blame Richards for BAR's stuff up? Grow up. That was all the fault of Japan. Ever heard of Japanese lettuce? You leave lettuce on the docks for a week talking about letting it into the country and finally say yes but the lettuce is off and needs to be throw out. Similar cicumstance. The Japs wanted to go no further with BAR so basically buried it then when it was dead enough... felt its pulse, announced there was none and moved on.