"New F1 teams a joke" - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**forexsoft** · 06-09-2010, 04:34 PM

Go on, see if you can guess which F1 boss is complaining about the new teams, and wanting a third car and more testing.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=250377

Ferrari’s boss also proposed revisions to spice up the sport.

"Do we need to race at two in the afternoon when everyone is at the sea?" he said. "Could we have two races per meeting? Do races need to last so long? F1 is not an endurance race. We need races to be short and tough." I'm pretty sure F1 has been an endurance race for the past 60 years. Nothing to do with your cars being slow and unreliable then...?

**TeLMgNva** · 06-09-2010, 04:53 PM

Phew! Thank God the FOTA teams didn't break away because otherwise this drivel would become reality.

**Thydaysuh** · 06-09-2010, 05:54 PM

ferrari's leaders never fail to dissapoint lately......

absolute drivel like sonic says. F1 hasn't had 3 car teams for years, 2 car entities its been for so long now and so it should be. to me it seems ferrari only want a third car to gain more prize money and become more prominent (not that they're not already though).

I admit F1 wouldnt be the same without ferrari. ferrari wouldnt be the same without F1. but I have news for them: It's not ALL about you.

**Arkadiyas** · 06-09-2010, 06:21 PM

"F1 is like soccer. It needs heroes and it needs big teams." Max used to compare F1 with a game of chess, so Luca comparing with soccer is slightly different! Yes, F1 needs heroes but not everyone's hero is a champion or a top team. The sport needs smaller teams just as it needs the big teams.
"You cannot equalise everything. We need to avoid having too many small teams because it means too many compromises." F1 is a meritocracy where the ability and talent to do things better than everyone else is rewarded with points, race wins and championships. Whether you are a small or a big team you have the same opportunity to fight for points, wins and championships.

Luca appears to be arguing for the status quo where the big teams stay big, and there is little or no opportunity for new teams to come into the sport and rise to the top, if they are capable of doing that.

What compromises is Luca talking about? Does he mean the enforced reduction in budgets that allowed the likes of Virgin, Lotus and HRT to appear on the grid? If so, I think he has a point that the whole process that led up to new teams entering F1 this year was poorly handled, particularly as those new teams had the impression that budget restrictions would apply to every team, not just them. The goalposts moved and as a result how can Luca, or anyone, expect new teams to be as competitive as the big teams when they're running on comparatively tiny amounts of money.

I think it's generally recognised that the whole idea of new budget capped teams was a ploy by Max to be used against FOTA. Now Max has gone the sport is left with the consequences. What Max failed to acknowlege was that economic conditions determine budgets, and the FIA should not have become involved in dictating what teams can and cannot spend. However, the new teams are here now and perhaps Luca is simply arguing that this kind of entry process to F1 cannot be allowed to happen again.
"Giving this car to a good young driver or Valentino Rossi would be better than a team being four seconds behind." Luca does seem very keen on getting Rossi onto the grid in a Ferrari

but I don't see how F1 would benefit from three Ferraris, McLarens and Red Bulls dominating the grid as opposed to two. F1 needs variety.

I can see the merits of teams being allowed to sell their cars to another team which would then run them separately from the 'works' team, but existing teams running a third car does not appeal to me. Again Luca appears to be arguing for the status quo, except a reinforced status quo where the big teams have more of a chance to dominate.
"Do we need to race at two in the afternoon when everyone is at the sea? Could we have two races per meeting? Do races need to last so long? F1 is not an endurance race. We need races to be short and tough." No Luca, F1 is not an endurance race, it is already different to the GT Championship. I have no desire to see F1 races reduced to sprint events.

As for the timing of the races Luca, as you're so keen on football I assume you oppose 3pm kick offs because everyone is shopping or at the sea

What are you suggesting; that races start when people are sat down having breakfast, or dinner? And what about the time differences around the world? Is everyone at the sea when F1 is on tv? Bernie's idea of having floodlit races so that Europeans could watch at a 'convenient' time is equally daft.
"F1 is the only sport in the world where there is no training." The testing ban is rather excessive, but Ferrari have always wanted to be able to continue using Fiorano as and when they please, which is understandable.
I’m very impressed with Le Mans but we can’t do both [F1] because of money and know-how and it’s only one race. Instead if we can put together an endurance series, either 12 or 24 hours, with other car makers and race around the world, that would be good," Is this a diluted repeat of Enzo's occasionally used threat to withdraw from F1 if things aren't done in a way that Ferrari approve of?

**Savviioor** · 06-09-2010, 06:33 PM

I agree about the testing ban, it's quite unfair on Ferrari IMO. The rest is ridiculous, though.

**goolen4you** · 06-09-2010, 06:37 PM

Phew! Thank God the FOTA teams didn't break away because otherwise this drivel would become reality.

Amen to that.

**dhYTvlAv** · 06-09-2010, 06:43 PM

In some ways I agree with him. Remember Lola, and teams like Osella years ago.

To make the comparison with football is interesting, because my question would be what, exactly, does an F1 team consist of? All the teams have two cars on track, but if you look at the number of mechanics and engineers I imagine there are big differences between the bigger and the smaller teams. I think they should limit the mechanic and engineering personnel too.

Let the teams test all they want, but at a race meeting they should have equal resources in man-hours (the same number of mechanics and engineers). Put cameras in all the garages and let everyone see them at work. It would increase the techie aspect, but if shows like CSI can be popular so can watching mechanics trying get set ups and repairs done in time.

The better people would get paid better and go to the richer teams, but it would leave more scope for ingenuity and talent.

**Mello** · 06-09-2010, 07:12 PM

ALL teams were new at some point, even if was 50 years ago. It may just be that of the current crop only Lotus have what it takes to go the distance, but the sport would be a lot poorer if we'd never had the likes of Minardi, Jordan, Stewart, Prost and many more.

As for three cars, yes we get it, you want Rossi in your team. It's getting slightly obsessive and embarrssing to hear Ferrari banging on about him all the time, like some teenage girl fantasising about Justin Bieber.

I may not be a Ferrari fan but I do have a deep respect for their achievements over many decades. However, recent comments and actions are making them sound like bitter sore losers who can't stand to see others doing well.

**Fsfkkkjz** · 06-09-2010, 07:32 PM

Go on, see if you can guess which F1 boss is complaining about the new teams, and wanting a third car and more testing.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=250377

I'm pretty sure F1 has been an endurance race for the past 60 years. Nothing to do with your cars being slow and unreliable then...?

i believe that my ones faster than your because it is red
all day sunday not one bit of news about valentino rossi broken leg
yet a heap of valentino rossi to drive 3rd car

AM I RIGHT

**RichardHaads** · 06-10-2010, 12:31 AM

I think Luca di Montezemolo's quotes are generated by a software at the press office in Maranello. The ingredients are always the same: blaming a rule or a ruling for Ferrari's dissapointing results (double diffuser, testing ban, F-duct), badmouthing the new teams, Valentino Rossi, a couple of ludicrous ideas to 'shake up the sport' and yapping about a third car for Ferrari.

**Nmoitmzr** · 06-10-2010, 12:48 AM

Wow, they just keep coming don't they?

**Thydaysuh** · 06-10-2010, 12:55 AM

actually, who is the bigger joke?

the new teams

or

luca di montezemelo

sorry, but after recent (IMO rather cretinous) outbursts, I vote option 2. That's got nothing to do me with being a mclaren supporter, that's irrelevant.

**Ingeborga** · 06-10-2010, 02:34 AM

ALL teams were new at some point, even if was 50 years ago. It may just be that of the current crop only Lotus have what it takes to go the distance, but the sport would be a lot poorer if we'd never had the likes of Minardi, Jordan, Stewart, Prost and many more.

Exactly, it was'nt long ago that Red Bull were considered a "new team" and look where they are now.

Yes Ferrari are part of F1 folklore but that does not mean they have the divine right to expect that everything they say should be implemented and treated like gospel. Its about what the fans want and us fans like to see new blood in the sport and to see them do well, in other words everyone likes a plucky underdog, Hell, does di Montezemolo, that elitist buffoon even remember how popular Minardi were with the fans?

He just needs to shut up and let the three newbies get on with it, all 3 have made great progress in the little time they've been in the sport and despite their lack of pace so far, they all have big ambitions for the future.

**enurneAcourdy** · 06-10-2010, 02:35 AM

ferrari's leaders never fail to dissapoint lately......

absolute drivel like sonic says. F1 hasn't had 3 car teams for years, 2 car entities its been for so long now and so it should be. to me it seems ferrari only want a third car to gain more prize money and become more prominent (not that they're not already though).

I admit F1 wouldnt be the same without ferrari. ferrari wouldnt be the same without F1. but I have news for them: It's not ALL about you.

Yep.

These new teams are nothing but a credit to the sport. He should be ashamed of his comments.

**Ingeborga** · 06-10-2010, 02:50 AM

Yep.

These new teams are nothing but a credit to the sport. He should be ashamed of his comments.

Could that be why LdM is criticising them? Them taking all the praise whilst his beloved Ferrari is rightly getting criticised left, right and centre.

Oh yeah that and I think he's still a bit peeved for not being allowed to run 3 cars

**Henldyhl** · 06-10-2010, 03:48 AM

Have a teamboss in public stated that the new teams are a joke?

Doubt this.

The new teams ar doing just fine.

**reervieltnope** · 06-10-2010, 04:09 PM

Have a teamboss in public stated that the new teams are a joke?

Doubt this.

The new teams ar doing just fine.

You do read this forum, and the sporting press, don't you? A while back Luca was scathing towards the new teams, almost jumping up and down spitting venom he was, then he stamped his feet and scweeeeeeeemed because he wants a third car allowed........

**swwatch** · 06-10-2010, 07:17 PM

some one needs to remind him that in 1980
Ferrari where 10 th with 8 points
that is a joke

**JTS_tv** · 06-11-2010, 04:11 AM

Luca being stupid as always.
But it is truth that the new teams are a joke. The sooner they are gone the better.

**reervieltnope** · 06-11-2010, 04:09 PM

But it is truth that the new teams are a joke. The sooner they are gone the better.

Well, no, actually. I think you are wrong.

They are doing OK, considering they are spending £40m, not £150m +.

Lotus are beginning to hunt the back of the field down IN THEIR FIRST YEAR, with a team and car that was conceived ABOUT 6 MONTHS BEFORE SEASON START.

Quite impressive, actually.

06-09-2010, 04:34 PM	#1
forexsoft Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 500 Senior Member	"New F1 teams a joke" Go on, see if you can guess which F1 boss is complaining about the new teams, and wanting a third car and more testing. http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=250377 Ferrari’s boss also proposed revisions to spice up the sport. "Do we need to race at two in the afternoon when everyone is at the sea?" he said. "Could we have two races per meeting? Do races need to last so long? F1 is not an endurance race. We need races to be short and tough." I'm pretty sure F1 has been an endurance race for the past 60 years. Nothing to do with your cars being slow and unreliable then...? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-09-2010, 04:53 PM	#2
TeLMgNva Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 580 Senior Member	Phew! Thank God the FOTA teams didn't break away because otherwise this drivel would become reality. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-09-2010, 05:54 PM	#3
Thydaysuh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 501 Senior Member	ferrari's leaders never fail to dissapoint lately...... absolute drivel like sonic says. F1 hasn't had 3 car teams for years, 2 car entities its been for so long now and so it should be. to me it seems ferrari only want a third car to gain more prize money and become more prominent (not that they're not already though). I admit F1 wouldnt be the same without ferrari. ferrari wouldnt be the same without F1. but I have news for them: It's not ALL about you. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-09-2010, 06:21 PM	#4
Arkadiyas Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 692 Senior Member	"F1 is like soccer. It needs heroes and it needs big teams." Max used to compare F1 with a game of chess, so Luca comparing with soccer is slightly different! Yes, F1 needs heroes but not everyone's hero is a champion or a top team. The sport needs smaller teams just as it needs the big teams. "You cannot equalise everything. We need to avoid having too many small teams because it means too many compromises." F1 is a meritocracy where the ability and talent to do things better than everyone else is rewarded with points, race wins and championships. Whether you are a small or a big team you have the same opportunity to fight for points, wins and championships. Luca appears to be arguing for the status quo where the big teams stay big, and there is little or no opportunity for new teams to come into the sport and rise to the top, if they are capable of doing that. What compromises is Luca talking about? Does he mean the enforced reduction in budgets that allowed the likes of Virgin, Lotus and HRT to appear on the grid? If so, I think he has a point that the whole process that led up to new teams entering F1 this year was poorly handled, particularly as those new teams had the impression that budget restrictions would apply to every team, not just them. The goalposts moved and as a result how can Luca, or anyone, expect new teams to be as competitive as the big teams when they're running on comparatively tiny amounts of money. I think it's generally recognised that the whole idea of new budget capped teams was a ploy by Max to be used against FOTA. Now Max has gone the sport is left with the consequences. What Max failed to acknowlege was that economic conditions determine budgets, and the FIA should not have become involved in dictating what teams can and cannot spend. However, the new teams are here now and perhaps Luca is simply arguing that this kind of entry process to F1 cannot be allowed to happen again. "Giving this car to a good young driver or Valentino Rossi would be better than a team being four seconds behind." Luca does seem very keen on getting Rossi onto the grid in a Ferrari but I don't see how F1 would benefit from *three* Ferraris, McLarens and Red Bulls dominating the grid as opposed to two. F1 needs variety. I can see the merits of teams being allowed to sell their cars to another team which would then run them separately from the 'works' team, but existing teams running a third car does not appeal to me. Again Luca appears to be arguing for the status quo, except a reinforced status quo where the big teams have *more* of a chance to dominate. "Do we need to race at two in the afternoon when everyone is at the sea? Could we have two races per meeting? Do races need to last so long? F1 is not an endurance race. We need races to be short and tough." No Luca, F1 is not an endurance race, it is *already* different to the GT Championship. I have no desire to see F1 races reduced to sprint events. As for the timing of the races Luca, as you're so keen on football I assume you oppose 3pm kick offs because everyone is shopping or at the sea What are you suggesting; that races start when people are sat down having breakfast, or dinner? And what about the time differences around the world? Is everyone at the sea when F1 is on tv? Bernie's idea of having floodlit races so that Europeans could watch at a 'convenient' time is equally daft. "F1 is the only sport in the world where there is no training." The testing ban is rather excessive, but Ferrari have always wanted to be able to continue using Fiorano as and when they please, which is understandable. I’m very impressed with Le Mans but we can’t do both [F1] because of money and know-how and it’s only one race. Instead if we can put together an endurance series, either 12 or 24 hours, with other car makers and race around the world, that would be good," Is this a diluted repeat of Enzo's occasionally used threat to withdraw from F1 if things aren't done in a way that Ferrari approve of? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-09-2010, 06:33 PM	#5
Savviioor Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 609 Senior Member	I agree about the testing ban, it's quite unfair on Ferrari IMO. The rest is ridiculous, though. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-09-2010, 06:37 PM	#6
goolen4you Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	Phew! Thank God the FOTA teams didn't break away because otherwise this drivel would become reality. Amen to that. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-09-2010, 06:43 PM	#7
dhYTvlAv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 519 Senior Member	In some ways I agree with him. Remember Lola, and teams like Osella years ago. To make the comparison with football is interesting, because my question would be what, exactly, does an F1 team consist of? All the teams have two cars on track, but if you look at the number of mechanics and engineers I imagine there are big differences between the bigger and the smaller teams. I think they should limit the mechanic and engineering personnel too. Let the teams test all they want, but at a race meeting they should have equal resources in man-hours (the same number of mechanics and engineers). Put cameras in all the garages and let everyone see them at work. It would increase the techie aspect, but if shows like CSI can be popular so can watching mechanics trying get set ups and repairs done in time. The better people would get paid better and go to the richer teams, but it would leave more scope for ingenuity and talent. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-09-2010, 07:12 PM	#8
Mello Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 495 Senior Member	ALL teams were new at some point, even if was 50 years ago. It may just be that of the current crop only Lotus have what it takes to go the distance, but the sport would be a lot poorer if we'd never had the likes of Minardi, Jordan, Stewart, Prost and many more. As for three cars, yes we get it, you want Rossi in your team. It's getting slightly obsessive and embarrssing to hear Ferrari banging on about him all the time, like some teenage girl fantasising about Justin Bieber. I may not be a Ferrari fan but I do have a deep respect for their achievements over many decades. However, recent comments and actions are making them sound like bitter sore losers who can't stand to see others doing well. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-09-2010, 07:32 PM	#9
Fsfkkkjz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	Go on, see if you can guess which F1 boss is complaining about the new teams, and wanting a third car and more testing. http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=250377 I'm pretty sure F1 has been an endurance race for the past 60 years. Nothing to do with your cars being slow and unreliable then...? i believe that my ones faster than your because it is red all day sunday not one bit of news about valentino rossi broken leg yet a heap of valentino rossi to drive 3rd car AM I RIGHT Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-10-2010, 12:31 AM	#10
RichardHaads Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 528 Senior Member	I think Luca di Montezemolo's quotes are generated by a software at the press office in Maranello. The ingredients are always the same: blaming a rule or a ruling for Ferrari's dissapointing results (double diffuser, testing ban, F-duct), badmouthing the new teams, Valentino Rossi, a couple of ludicrous ideas to 'shake up the sport' and yapping about a third car for Ferrari. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-10-2010, 12:48 AM	#11
Nmoitmzr Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 717 Senior Member	Wow, they just keep coming don't they? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 12:55 AM	#12
Thydaysuh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 501 Senior Member	actually, who is the bigger joke? the new teams or luca di montezemelo sorry, but after recent (IMO rather cretinous) outbursts, I vote option 2. That's got nothing to do me with being a mclaren supporter, that's irrelevant. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 02:34 AM	#13
Ingeborga Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 590 Senior Member	ALL teams were new at some point, even if was 50 years ago. It may just be that of the current crop only Lotus have what it takes to go the distance, but the sport would be a lot poorer if we'd never had the likes of Minardi, Jordan, Stewart, Prost and many more. Exactly, it was'nt long ago that Red Bull were considered a "new team" and look where they are now. Yes Ferrari are part of F1 folklore but that does not mean they have the divine right to expect that everything they say should be implemented and treated like gospel. Its about what the fans want and us fans like to see new blood in the sport and to see them do well, in other words everyone likes a plucky underdog, Hell, does di Montezemolo, that elitist buffoon even remember how popular Minardi were with the fans? He just needs to shut up and let the three newbies get on with it, all 3 have made great progress in the little time they've been in the sport and despite their lack of pace so far, they all have big ambitions for the future. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 02:35 AM	#14
enurneAcourdy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 727 Senior Member	ferrari's leaders never fail to dissapoint lately...... absolute drivel like sonic says. F1 hasn't had 3 car teams for years, 2 car entities its been for so long now and so it should be. to me it seems ferrari only want a third car to gain more prize money and become more prominent (not that they're not already though). I admit F1 wouldnt be the same without ferrari. ferrari wouldnt be the same without F1. but I have news for them: It's not ALL about you. Yep. These new teams are nothing but a credit to the sport. He should be ashamed of his comments. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-10-2010, 02:50 AM	#15
Ingeborga Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 590 Senior Member	Yep. These new teams are nothing but a credit to the sport. He should be ashamed of his comments. Could that be why LdM is criticising them? Them taking all the praise whilst his beloved Ferrari is rightly getting criticised left, right and centre. Oh yeah that and I think he's still a bit peeved for not being allowed to run 3 cars Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 03:48 AM	#16
Henldyhl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 493 Senior Member	Have a teamboss in public stated that the new teams are a joke? Doubt this. The new teams ar doing just fine. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 04:09 PM	#17
reervieltnope Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 555 Senior Member	Have a teamboss in public stated that the new teams are a joke? Doubt this. The new teams ar doing just fine. You do read this forum, and the sporting press, don't you? A while back Luca was scathing towards the new teams, almost jumping up and down spitting venom he was, then he stamped his feet and scweeeeeeeemed because he wants a third car allowed........ Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-10-2010, 07:17 PM	#18
swwatch Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 615 Senior Member	some one needs to remind him that in 1980 Ferrari where 10 th with 8 points that is a joke Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-11-2010, 04:11 AM	#19
JTS_tv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 572 Senior Member	Luca being stupid as always. But it is truth that the new teams are a joke. The sooner they are gone the better. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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06-11-2010, 04:09 PM	#20
reervieltnope Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 555 Senior Member	But it is truth that the new teams are a joke. The sooner they are gone the better. Well, no, actually. I think you are wrong. They are doing OK, considering they are spending £40m, not £150m +. Lotus are beginning to hunt the back of the field down IN THEIR FIRST YEAR, with a team and car that was conceived ABOUT 6 MONTHS BEFORE SEASON START. Quite impressive, actually. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote