[Fksxneng]

from f1racing.net
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-...hould-tougher/

Former McLaren Formula 1 driver Martin Brundle believes the race stewards in Shanghai should have given at least some sort of penalty rather than just a reprimand after the race to Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel.

Speaking about the pitlane incident Martin Brundle said in his BBC column: "Vettel shoved Hamilton towards the wheel guns and mechanics, albeit long after Hamilton should have yielded. They both received a reprimand, but what does that mean? How long does a reprimand last and how many are you allowed to collect before a real penalty?

"They are lucky I wasn't the resident driver steward for the weekend because I would have strongly recommended dropping them both some penalty places on the grid for the next race in Barcelona. The decision taken has set a very dangerous precedent.

"I'm more relaxed about side-by-side action into the pit lane entry, where no person or equipment is in the road. It has been interpreted before that this is against the rules.

"I would also have recommended at least a flaky reprimand if not a drive-through penalty when Button unreasonably slowed the pack for a safety car restart. It was a clear breach of the rules unless he could demonstrate that the safety car had been unreasonably slow entering the pit lane.

"I wouldn't have been a popular steward with my former McLaren team but that job is not a popularity contest. Ask any referee."


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I agree with brundle, drivers who show off, think they are doing deep blue hero stuff . should be penalised for dangerous driving

[career-builder]

I agree, stewards should tougher

[Seerseraxlils]

I would have recommended a 10 second drive through. This action was extremely dangerous to pit personnel.

[xanonlinexan]

i'm not convinced, normally i agree with what Brundle says, but in recent years he has been pretty critical of Stewards chucking out penalties like confetti, but now they seem to be having a more balanced view he wants them to be stronger. i think reprimands are a decent way of doing things, as long as they are followed up with action in case of repeat offenders.

that said Lewis now has 2 reprimands, is there any protocol for repeat offences, is it 3 reprimands making a drive through?

[CesseOveldset]

i'm not convinced, normally i agree with what Brundle says, but in recent years he has been pretty critical of Stewards chucking out penalties like confetti, but now they seem to be having a more balanced view he wants them to be stronger. i think reprimands are a decent way of doing things, as long as they are followed up with action in case of repeat offenders.

that said Lewis now has 2 reprimands, is there any protocol for repeat offences, is it 3 reprimands making a drive through?

There should be a penalty for reoffending on a specific reprimand.

WHat should not happen, is if a driver gets a reprimand for pulling a moonie on the grid for example, because he weaved and got a reprimand in the last race, this is two different offences, and not a repeat....

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

I am happy that they got reprimands and not penalties. In my opinion that was racing accident and I am happy that drivers are free to race.

[LomodiorCon]

There should be a penalty for reoffending on a specific reprimand.

WHat should not happen, is if a driver gets a reprimand for pulling a moonie on the grid for example, because he weaved and got a reprimand in the last race, this is two different offences, and not a repeat....

Agreed...repeating the same offence warrants a penalty but not different things. The issue has always been consistency of time penalties/grid drops.

So one year you have Hamilton penalised at Spa for not using the track, the next year Kimi pulls a similar trick a turn further on and it's deemed okay.

[xanonlinexan]

but look at yellow cards in football - you can have one for handball and one for a late tackle, both together equal a sending off.

in theory you could get a reprimand in every race of the season for different minor offences without ever actually taking a penalty. whats the point of reprimanding people if there is nothing to follow it up. the reprimands that have been given are that specific that its unlikely anyone will repeast the offence, let alone the same driver, regardless of the drivers trying to behave.

if you commit a driving "foul" then maybe you should get a yellow card, and a repeat offence (being any driving "foul") results in a drive through or a grid penalty. or do you strike the record clean after every race weekend?

whilst i approve of the approach, being less harsh than in previous years, i think there is too much ambiguity, unless the stewards are being very clear about what happens in the case of a further reprimand, and if they are, can they be a bit more transparent with the process so we all no where everyone stands.

i come back to the football analagy - you get 2 yellows and you get sent off. get sent off, or receive anough yellows, you'll receive a fruther suspension.

a system similar could work - 2 reprimands = 5 place grid drop. Straight red = 10 place grid drop. 5 reprimands or 2 straight reds = race suspension, or something similar. get it all published up front so everyone knows what will happend, rather than a wishy washy system where no-one knows if they are going to get punished or get away with a ticking off.

[Seerseraxlils]

Look at it this way - had Lewis run over one of the tyre guns and spun, causing one helluva prang and somebody getting killed - the reaction might be different. There were only inches in it so how can a reprimand be sufficient? We are saying the end result doesn't warrant a penalty rather than the offense.

[gariharlj]

I think Brundle's getting conservative in his old age - I predict we'll hear him say "hanging's too good for 'em" before the end of the season

Reprimands were the right thing for all these incidents IMO. But I would expect them to be backed up by clarifications in the drivers' briefing before the next race. Tell the drivers that driving two abreast in the pit lane won't be tolerated. If it happens again having told them that, then it will be time to hand out penalties.
Likewise the status of the lines on the pit entry prior to the speed limit line. If they mean nothing (as it appears), then as long as everyone understands that there's no problem.

[gariharlj]

Look at it this way - had Lewis run over one of the tyre guns and spun, causing one helluva prang and somebody getting killed - the reaction might be different. There were only inches in it so how can a reprimand be sufficient? We are saying the end result doesn't warrant a penalty rather than the offense.

I would say we are still talking the offence, not the end result. Compare it to an offence of cutting the white line on the pit lane exit. If you cross the line you get a penalty, because that's considered dangerous. If you get really close to the line but don't cross it, you didn't commit an offence, even though there might only be inches in it. Similarly, you could say that going wheel to wheel in the pit lane and passing inches from pit equipment is one kind of offence, while going wheel to wheel and driving over pit equipment is a different kind of offence.
Drivers pass close to pit equipment and personnel in every race. How close is too close? With no specific rule on the matter, the only interpretation left is that if you didn't hit anything, you weren't too close.

[IvJlNwum]

i'm not convinced, normally i agree with what Brundle says, but in recent years he has been pretty critical of Stewards chucking out penalties like confetti, but now they seem to be having a more balanced view he wants them to be stronger. i think reprimands are a decent way of doing things, as long as they are followed up with action in case of repeat offenders.

that said Lewis now has 2 reprimands, is there any protocol for repeat offences, is it 3 reprimands making a drive through?

As far as I know the black and white flag only applies to the race it is shown in, a warning for unsportsman like behavier in that race and doesnt get carried over.

Hamilton and Vettel both have only 1 reprimand this year (so far).

[Cofeeman]

Look at it this way - had Lewis run over one of the tyre guns and spun, causing one helluva prang and somebody getting killed - the reaction might be different. There were only inches in it so how can a reprimand be sufficient? We are saying the end result doesn't warrant a penalty rather than the offense.

They were both abit naughty in this instance and I was expecting a penalty to come up on the screen ordering them both to take a drive through. They were so desperate to get out on track in front of each other they forgot about the potential danger to by standers. Lewis should have yielded but I agree that would have meant losing ground at the acceleration point so his competitive nature clouded his judgement in this case. Vettel should not have swerved at Lewis knowing how little space he was occupying so for me they are both equally at fault. The fact that they were released together cannot be blamed on any particular team because there was only 1/10th in it combined with Hamilton's slow getaway.

I was quite impressed with how Hamilton handled the media afterwards and was very carefull not to point blame at Seb, which he may have done 2 seasons ago. Seb seemed less impressed, but that was before he had the advantage of seeing the replay. Once he had seen his actions were also dangerous he may have wished to retract his statement. This all comes with experience IMO, and although they only got a reprimand, its nice that race results are no longer decided 2 hours after the race. Well not yet anyway..

[Fksxneng]

Brundle is right . pit lane is a very dangerous place. it was lucky that no other crew in front of lewis was waiting for a pit stop. that would have been very fatal.

i think FIA has f***d the rules so much that drivers think that only place to overtake is pitlane.

Lewis drover dangerously twice 1st during his 1st pit stop when he cut the track suddenly to go into the pits and 2nd the stunt with redbull.

steward's decision always sets a precedent, what happens suppose if 2 other driver's race in the pit lane, they can only be warned, cannot be penalized from now on,

[Seerseraxlils]

I would say we are still talking the offence, not the end result. Compare it to an offence of cutting the white line on the pit lane exit. If you cross the line you get a penalty, because that's considered dangerous. If you get really close to the line but don't cross it, you didn't commit an offence, even though there might only be inches in it. Similarly, you could say that going wheel to wheel in the pit lane and passing inches from pit equipment is one kind of offence, while going wheel to wheel and driving over pit equipment is a different kind of offence.
Drivers pass close to pit equipment and personnel in every race. How close is too close? With no specific rule on the matter, the only interpretation left is that if you didn't hit anything, you weren't too close.

So! you consider that going two abreast in the pitlane forcing one driver towards pitstop equipment is not dangerous but crossing the white line when leaving the pitlane is.

I can only say that I do not share your views on the matter at all. But then in this forum we all have different views sometimes.
Having watched the recording again, I think that a ten second drive through would have been lenient and I would consider a black flag followed by a one race ban would have been appropriate. But again, that's me!

[gariharlj]

So! you consider that going two abreast in the pitlane forcing one driver towards pitstop equipment is not dangerous but crossing the white line when leaving the pitlane is.

That's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that passing near to pit equipment is a different offence to driving over it, not merely a different outcome. I was responding to your statement "We are saying the end result doesn't warrant a penalty rather than the offense."

[Cofeeman]

Lewis drover dangerously twice 1st during his 1st pit stop when he cut the track suddenly to go into the pits and 2nd the stunt with redbull.

Lets not forget Vettel's part in the second incident. Had the two drivers been between the lines and travelled down the pit lane side by side without any contact, I doubt much would have been made of it. This has happened in recent seasons without fuss.

The fact is, Lewis was outside the markings and Vettel pushed him closer towards the air guns and pit boxes. Lewis should have abandoned his charge beside Vettel and the Red Bull driver should not have made a defensive manoeuvre in the pitlane, simple as that. They are both equally at fault.

[12Dvop4I]

There should be a penalty for reoffending on a specific reprimand.

WHat should not happen, is if a driver gets a reprimand for pulling a moonie on the grid for example, because he weaved and got a reprimand in the last race, this is two different offences, and not a repeat....

That's just silly. In SGWilkoland you would walk around freely if you broke a different law everyday.

[Seerseraxlils]

I would say we are still talking the offence, not the end result. Compare it to an offence of cutting the white line on the pit lane exit. If you cross the line you get a penalty, because that's considered dangerous. If you get really close to the line but don't cross it, you didn't commit an offence, even though there might only be inches in it. Similarly, you could say that going wheel to wheel in the pit lane and passing inches from pit equipment is one kind of offence, while going wheel to wheel and driving over pit equipment is a different kind of offence.
Drivers pass close to pit equipment and personnel in every race. How close is too close? With no specific rule on the matter, the only interpretation left is that if you didn't hit anything, you weren't too close.

OK! I admit I am confused by this post. I am saying that driving wheel to wheel down the pitlane is an offence no matter how close any pitlane equipment is or even whether there is any pitlane equipment. I only included the presence of pitlane equipment to show what the outcome may have been had one car run over it. I'll even go further to say beyond any doubt that two cars should never drive side by side down the pitlane and if such a situation arose accidentally, then the car ahead has right of way and the other car should yield immediately.

Perhaps you would like to comment on this interpretation instead as my other post may have resulted from a misinterpretation on my part.

[Seerseraxlils]

The fact is, Lewis was outside the markings and Vettel pushed him closer towards the air guns and pit boxes. Lewis should have abandoned his charge beside Vettel and the Red Bull driver should not have made a defensive manoeuvre in the pitlane, simple as that. They are both equally at fault.

This is not necessarily so! one driver's fault must have been more equal than the other's.