[leareliovag]

That's only biased crap.

People in glass houses.....

[Immampdah]

Button won a race. I think that Sato will never achieve this.

Getting a 7th and passing Alonso's McLaren while driving a SAF1 was a way better achievement that Button's fortuitous win, IMO.

Sato is a racer, Button is a journeyman.

[Immampdah]

People in glass houses.....

Throw it back, I'm not afraid, cause you've got nothing at hand!

[DfrtYhyu]

That's only biased crap.
Button persevered with Honda cause no one else wanted him anymore.

ioan, there are facts and opinions.

Facts

2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3 in the BAR
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.

So, your opinion is that Sato out drove Button but the reality is the opposite.

Still, this is the all new and improved soft, cuddly, sweet smelling forum so your opinion is perfectly valid if backed up by fantasy rather than fact

[Immampdah]

ioan, there are facts and opinions.

Facts

2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.

So, your opinion is that Sato out drove Button but the reality is the opposite.

Still, this is the all new and improved soft, cuddly, sweet smelling forum so your opinion is perfectly valid if backed up by fantasy rather than fact

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

[DfrtYhyu]

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

At least you started the post with "IMO"

So, when they were in the same car, why did a "proper" racing driver like Sato only score 38 where the "tourer" managed to fluke 204. That's consistently outscoring him more than 5 points to 1!!!

Blimey, Freddie murdered Piquet this year in his rookie year and only managed 3:1

In fact, I can't think of anyone over such a consistent period of time that was so owned and I'm actually a fan of Sato and think he's a fast cookie!!

By your reckoning, Ide is the 2nd coming of Christ

[assohillA]

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

Are you just being obtuse for the sake of it now?

When Button and Sato both had the same machinery (for 3 seasons), Button annihilated him every season.

Are you only saying Button isn't a racer because he doesn't fight the car like Massa or Kimi?

[leareliovag]

Throw it back, I'm not afraid, cause you've got nothing at hand!

I just find it funny that after all the debates in which you are so biased against McLaren, Hamilton and Button that you would be so hypocritical to accuse someone of spouting 'biased crap'.

Of course if we look at the figures then it would appear that Button is a much better driver than Taku, afterall how many races has Sato won? Do those blinkers that you wear give you sweaty eyes? I'm no BUtton fan and certainly don't think he will amount to much in F1 (even with a top drive he will only ever be a 'Coulthard' type driver IMO) but it is clear to me that Sato is not up to his standard (not that Taku is a poor driver, he certainly deserves a place ahead of someone like Piquet as far as I'm concerned)

[Pelefaifs]

Sato was never #1 driver for Honda .

[Thomas12400]

[Button] should get himself a test driving role at Renault, ...

Hasn't he already been there, done that...

I tell you people he was not ready
he got stuffed by Flav in the name of Freddie

[GoblinGaga]

I think his best shot at a seat next year will be with whatever team replaces Honda.
If no buyer is found then I guess he has a shot at Bourdais' seat, but so do a lot of people.

[Heacechig]

Huh, Button... Well, I think if Honda doesn't find a buyer (don't know yet) and some teams won't be forced to use third cars (unlikely to happen, I reckon - and even then they'll more likely elevate their test/junior drivers), then JB may face a villeneuveqsue fate by staying out for a year like the Canadian did in 2004. I don't think Button's reputation is so high that any team would sack their driver to hire him. Looking at vacant seats - there is Toro Rosso, but it seems they want a driver with money and even Bourdais is struggling to find the required sponsorship, so I doubt Button is in a better position as he has been used to high salaries and not to be in a pay-driver role.

Button's stock has fallen. He was a hot property back in 2004-2005, when BAR and Williams were fighting for him. Now I don't foresee a fight and of course the fact that he failed to handle an old hand this year hasn't done any good to him at all. Although I still think that Button can be a fine driver and he is capable of more than he showed in 2008, this is how the world of motor racing works - there are actually loads of fine drivers and to keep your status as a wanted driver, it's needed to prove yourself all the time and consistently. Unmotivation has no room there. If Button is out of drive for 2009, then I guess he'll be eyeing a comeback in 2010. Well, for this to happen he must act really intensely by trying to find why not even a test driver role somewhere for a start and also try to find a race seat in some kind of series to prove himself.

2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3 in the BAR
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.

Don't be joking mate - performance-wise Button didn't smoke Trulli, far from that. And the amount of Jenson's points in 2005 was 37, if that makes any difference. And to clarify facts, in 2003 Sato drove only 1 race.

[quorceopporce]

ioan, read jens' post above in order to see how to be critical of someone without resorting to the usual old accusations of bias (pots and kettles spring to mind) against other members who disagree with your opinion. Then, maybe, there will be no need for so many aggressive disagreements.

[Immampdah]

ioan, read jens' post above in order to see how to be critical of someone without resorting to the usual old accusations of bias (pots and kettles spring to mind) against other members who disagree with your opinion. Then, maybe, there will be no need for so many aggressive disagreements.

When I see people saying "Sato is no good, he shouldn't even be in F1 bla bla bla but Button should be given a seat in X top team" I no matter how hard I try I can't dignify them with a complicated and nice reply.

Button has been pants since 2004 and he lucked into his only win ever. That's what I think and I feel no urge to wrap it into nice golden foil.
Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

Sorry for the harsh tone, it's certainly not directed to you, but I'm not always a nice chap.

[Immampdah]

Huh, Button... Well, I think if Honda doesn't find a buyer (don't know yet) and some teams won't be forced to use third cars (unlikely to happen, I reckon - and even then they'll more likely elevate their test/junior drivers), then JB may face a villeneuveqsue fate by staying out for a year like the Canadian did in 2004. I don't think Button's reputation is so high that any team would sack their driver to hire him. Looking at vacant seats - there is Toro Rosso, but it seems they want a driver with money and even Bourdais is struggling to find the required sponsorship, so I doubt Button is in a better position as he has been used to high salaries and not to be in a pay-driver role.

Button's stock has fallen. He was a hot property back in 2004-2005, when BAR and Williams were fighting for him. Now I don't foresee a fight and of course the fact that he failed to handle an old hand this year hasn't done any good to him at all. Although I still think that Button can be a fine driver and he is capable of more than he showed in 2008, this is how the world of motor racing works - there are actually loads of fine drivers and to keep your status as a wanted driver, it's needed to prove yourself all the time and consistently. Unmotivation has no room there. If Button is out of drive for 2009, then I guess he'll be eyeing a comeback in 2010. Well, for this to happen he must act really intensely by trying to find why not even a test driver role somewhere for a start and also try to find a race seat in some kind of series to prove himself.



Don't be joking mate - performance-wise Button didn't smoke Trulli, far from that. And the amount of Jenson's points in 2005 was 37, if that makes any difference. And to clarify facts, in 2003 Sato drove only 1 race.

Thanks for straightening out the record and expressing things in a more civilized way than I would do it.

[Immampdah]

I just find it funny that after all the debates in which you are so biased against McLaren, Hamilton and Button that you would be so hypocritical to accuse someone of spouting 'biased crap'.

Of course if we look at the figures then it would appear that Button is a much better driver than Taku, afterall how many races has Sato won? Do those blinkers that you wear give you sweaty eyes? I'm no BUtton fan and certainly don't think he will amount to much in F1 (even with a top drive he will only ever be a 'Coulthard' type driver IMO) but it is clear to me that Sato is not up to his standard (not that Taku is a poor driver, he certainly deserves a place ahead of someone like Piquet as far as I'm concerned)

I'm not living in any glass house, if anyone thinks he/she can dispute what I say than go ahead, shoot.

[quorceopporce]

When I see people saying "Sato is no good, he shouldn't even be in F1 bla bla bla but Button should be given a seat in X top team" I no matter how hard I try I can't dignify them with a complicated and nice reply.

A lot of other people manage to.

Button has been pants since 2004 and he lucked into his only win ever. That's what I think and I feel no urge to wrap it into nice golden foil.
Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic. You don't seem to credit those who make such comments with any rational thought — for you, it must come down to nationality. This is simply untrue. I also find it rather offensive.

Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis actually drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise. The same would have been said of a Sato victory at some point, had it happened. If you class yourself as an enthusiast, you too ought to derive pleasure from the unexpected happening. It's not all down to luck. It's an old cliché, but there's an extent to which you make your own luck.

And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

[assohillA]

Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

.

If Button was Japanese we would be celebrating him as being one of the most successful Japanese drivers.

IN MY OPINION you just have a hatred for anything British, whether it be Button, McLaren or Hamilton

[assohillA]

A lot of other people manage to.



We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic. You don't seem to credit those who make such comments with any rational thought — for you, it must come down to nationality. This is simply untrue. I also find it rather offensive.

Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise. The same would have been said of a Sato victory at some point, had it happened. If you class yourself as an enthusiast, you too ought to derive pleasure from the unexpected happening. It's not all down to luck. It's an old cliché, but there's an extent top which you make your own luck.

And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

I think that Buttons best drive was in 2004 at Hockenhiem. He was overtaking for fun.

[Immampdah]

A lot of other people manage to.

I really don't feel the urge to do it, maybe I'm not like a lot of people.

We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic.

As long as they don't couple it with making fun or bashing a non-British driver I could accept it, but not like this. You may be a partisan of someone without laughing about others in a poor attempt to make your fave look better.

Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis actually drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise.

Button's win was pure luck, nothing more. As for Panis, he won the race after he spun Irvine around in the Lowes hairpin when he rear ended him. Nothing to be proud of either, I can still see it happen like if it was yesterday.

And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

As I said if you got something at hand shoot, I'll defend my opinion, and I'm yet to think about supporting a driver that wasn't worth it, let alone based on nationality.