[kuklame]

I throw this question out there: If just for a year would you sign him,

Does a fish fart underwater?

[kuklame]

I knew this was going to be the general feeling between Schumacher fans and was going to get brought up some time, because of course they miss their hero.

But people seem to forget the single most important factor, and that is that the Ferrari 248F1 was the fastest car in 2006, maybe not at the start of the season, but definitely for the rest of 2006.

It's not as if Schumacher was flawless, he made mistakes, a couple, or maybe even blatant unethical tactics. Don't ever forget Monaco. Massa was beginning to gain confidence and beat him on occassions. Ferrari lost both the drivers and constructors title even after Alonso's two retirements in Shanghai and Monza and Fisichella's disappointing year.

Don't base all your assumptions based on 2004, because that was a tremendous dream year for Ferrari. Do not also forget that they had the supreme F2004, the best car that year by a country mile. Also, that was a team of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn. Two of whom are absent now.

Also, Ferrari tactical crew headed by Domenicali have made stupid errors after stupid errors. And if you really think the F2008 is such a supreme car as you say, then Hamilton's 5 victories this season must be magical! So, in a way are you implying that Hamilton is the best driver on the planet right now?

Todt and Kimi won the 2007 championship, after Ferrari failed to do so in 2006, and that too without the technical genius of Ross Brawn in 2007. ALSO, more importantly, the F2007 wasn't clearly the faster car. The Mclaren shared that in many races where they had a clear advantage, i.e. Monaco and Monza.

So, I don't get what the problem is. Everyone has a bad year.

There are three reasons Ferrari, and Mike lost in 2006
1; The car was a dog for the first half of the season.
2: Mike's Engine expired at Suzuka while leading the penultiment round of the season.
3: Fred is no slouch, and a pretty dog-blasted-good country racer!

IMHO Freds race at Monza that year was the stuff that dreams are made of. Unfortunately his engine detonated with 14 laps to go.

BTW I will put that spectacular detonation up against any of KImi's!

That’s what I recollect!

[kuklame]

He's ruling out poor driver performance! He's talking like a man who has a block on one side of his head and a sword on the other!
I mean come on; you have one race left in the season, and expect us to believe you are mystified by the performance of the F2008 Contender?
If he doesn't have it sorted out in less than a fortnight, that sword will surely fly.

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/contr...&news_id=33538
Grt Mike in that rig for 15 laps and things will just seem to sort themselves out!

[dr-eavealer]

He's ruling out poor driver performance! He's talking like a man who has a block on one side of his head and a sword on the other!
I mean come on; you have one race left in the season, and expect us to believe you are mystified by the performance of the F2008 Contender?
If he doesn't have it sorted out in less than a fortnight, that sword will surely fly.

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/contr...&news_id=33538
Grt Mike in that rig for 15 laps and things will just seem to sort themselves out!

The way I saw it, Lewis and his McLaren were faster than Massa's Ferrari - no question. Whether it was Lewis, something McLaren found to improve the balance of the car, or the tyres is the unknown variable factor. But that is motor racing, that is F1. There are so many factors that influence the performance of a car, like track and ambient temperatures, tyre compounds, slight alteration in aero, setting up of the car, ....................

Perhaps if Lewis had not damaged his car or flat spotted his tyre at Fuji, he could have also had the faster car. After all, he did qualify the thing on pole.

You be the judge!!!

Maybe if Ferrari hired ant as their test driver, and help set the cars up, they might have a faster car, just like bunsen had one year.

[kuklame]

The way I saw it, Lewis and his McLaren were faster than Massa's Ferrari - no question. Whether it was Lewis, something McLaren found to improve the balance of the car, or the tyres is the unknown variable factor. But that is motor racing, that is F1. There are so many factors that influence the performance of a car, like track and ambient temperatures, tyre compounds, slight alteration in aero, setting up of the car, ....................

Perhaps if Lewis had not damaged his car or flat spotted his tyre at Fuji, he could have also had the faster car. After all, he did qualify the thing on pole.

You be the judge!!!

Maybe if Ferrari hired ant as their test driver, and help set the cars up, they might have a faster car, just like bunsen had one year.

All very valid points my man!
Somehow I feel like at this point in the season if
Mike was driving, he would have gotten that thing dialed. The same way
Fred has gotten the Renault dialed. Kimi or Massa will never have to worry about being confused
with..............

[zoneouddy]

All very valid points my man!
Somehow I feel like at this point in the season if
Mike was driving, he would have gotten that thing dialed. The same way
Fred has gotten the Renault dialed. Kimi or Massa will never have to worry about being confused
with..............

Wassup Taz man?! Good points. Maybe Schu would have been more consistent and scored points more consistently than all the title contenders this season, but I am not very sure he would have won it without his competitors having all the problems and penalties.

He did test the F2008 for a considerable amount of time. Maybe he gave wrong inputs to have wrong development on the car to prove that Ferrari made a mistake by letting him go.

[plaiskegizils]

Personaly i find this discussion a bit meaningless....Way to many "what if's"...although some seems to be pretty convinced MS would have donne so much better than both current Ferrari drivers.....well we will never know..You just can not compair one season with the other..you can not compair one car with the other....you can not even compair the team anymore as a lot have changed over the years...to name a few...and when you do want to look back to previous seasons..well maybe the competition in 2008 has been way thougher than in some of the previous seasons (also in the MS era)

[treawittelf]

Schu serves Ferrari input worthwhile, but one, did he recommend the right driver?

[Roneyslelry]

I think that at the time he retired, Alonso was at a similar level of performance to Schumy so if you put Alonso in the Ferrari, I think we have a realistic "real world" theory.

IMO, the Ferrari is the fastest car out there this year and the reason Hamilton is leading the WDC is a combination of driver and team getting the maximum out of the package whereas Ferrari, Massa and Kimi have shown some blistering pace but have not managed consistency.

The car is a great car but they haven't managed to realise it's potential whereas McLaren and Lewis have maximised their opportunities as have BMW and Kubica.

If there was a Schumacher or Alonso in the Ferrari and the team were performing at the level we know they can, then I think it would likely be a Redfest.

[dr-eavealer]

Schu serves Ferrari input worthwhile, but one, did he recommend the right driver?

Well, Ferrari were really not that interested in Ralfie!!

[LasTins]

I think that at the time he retired, Alonso was at a similar level of performance to Schumy so if you put Alonso in the Ferrari, I think we have a realistic "real world" theory.

IMO, the Ferrari is the fastest car out there this year and the reason Hamilton is leading the WDC is a combination of driver and team getting the maximum out of the package whereas Ferrari, Massa and Kimi have shown some blistering pace but have not managed consistency.

The car is a great car but they haven't managed to realise it's potential whereas McLaren and Lewis have maximised their opportunities as have BMW and Kubica.

If there was a Schumacher or Alonso in the Ferrari and the team were performing at the level we know they can, then I think it would likely be a Redfest.

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.

[Roneyslelry]

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.

Ret races are a good equaliser.

However, Massa in particular is a confidence driver. If he's near the front, he's quick but put him back and he struggles.

In Silverstone and a few other races, everyone's blames the car for lack of pace and I questioned that.

Then we saw how fast he was at Singapore but after a problem dropped him back, he loses all of his pace and gives up.

I think they have had a bit of a problem with Tyres but a good driver finds ways to get around problems with the car. The ferrari boys don't seem to be able to master challenges like Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and some others can.

[LasTins]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

[cholleyhomeob]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

Schumacher himself said that the F2008 is very difficult a car to drive in wet conditions. It is a superbly fast car when in right conditions, but when out of it, has loads of problems. In that regard, the McLaren car is much better. Much wider operating window.

At china the problem were too hard tyres and too low temperature. Ferraris strongest point, ability to save tyres, did not come into play anymore.


As for the topic - I was a big schumacher fan, but enough is enough. He is retired, will never come back and that`s it. He was the best in his time and most likely of all time, but if you put him in the car now, Felipe and kimi both would beat him. No point in dwelling in the past or how Schumacher would have done.

[LasTins]

I agree with you, Garry. At his prime, Michael could have bested anyone. At his prime, I think that he is significantly better driver than all contenders this season.
But time is something which can not be defeated

[dr-eavealer]

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.

God!! it must have been pouring in Shanghai

[Cnbaapuy]

I think they have had a bit of a problem with Tyres but a good driver finds ways to get around problems with the car. The ferrari boys don't seem to be able to master challenges like Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and some others can.

Yeah, we all saw how Hamilton mastered the challenge when his tires and brakes weren't at the right temperature in qualifying in Monza.

Let's face it, when the conditions were right for him Massa won, and the same for Hamilton, but for the blunders (Lewy running into Kimi's back and Ferrari pi$$ing against the wind in Singapore).
None of them proved exceptional in adverse conditions for his car or his driving style.

[aabbaDE]

On a slightly different note, has Schumacher's occasional presence on the pit wall had the slightest positive effect? I'm still rather dubious about the value of this continued involvement, or even what it entails.

As for the main thrust of the thread, I think he did exactly the right thing in retiring when he did, and that he should stay retired. Far better to go out at the top of your form than to stay on with the inevitable diminution of your skills at some point, even if you're a great multiple WDC.

[LasTins]

God!! it must have been pouring in Shanghai

Lewis had some tremendous dry races, but in them Ferrari didn't lose much, except in Oz, and they gained it back in Malaysia and Bahrain. But in the wet races they lost a lot.

[Roneyslelry]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

What I find bizzare is that there is no difference between the teams in wet or wet / dry conditions but the Ferrari package is obviously faster in the dry.

Felipe – 0, 0, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 1st, 13th 3rd, 17th, 1st, 1st, 6th, 13th 7th 2nd
Kimi – 8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 9th, 0, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 3rd, 0, 18th, 9th, 15th, 3rd, 3rd
Races – D, D, D, D, D, W/D, D, W/D, W, D, D, D, W/D, W/D, D, D, D
Lewis – 1st, 5th, 13th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 0, 10th, 1st, 1st, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 3rd, 12th, 1st
Heikki – 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 0, 12th, 8th, 9th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 1st, 4th, 10th, 2nd, 10th, 0, 0


Dry Average points – Mclaren 8.42 – Ferrari 9.42
Wet / Dry and Wet Average Points – Mclaren 9.2 – Ferrari 9.2