Toro vs RB - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**AndyPharmc** · 01-17-2008, 03:02 PM

Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present.

Renault vs Ferrari
Vetel & Bourdais faster than Coulthard & Webber .....

Will be interesting to watch

**urbalatte** · 01-17-2008, 03:36 PM

Doubt it. They only beat Red Bull outright last year once and that was in changing conditions...

But then again anything will be possible if they manage to take the RBR cars out of higher positions like in Japan.

EDIT: As they'll be running the same car it'll also be as temperamental as the RB4 if it is unreliable.

**blogwado** · 01-17-2008, 03:40 PM

Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present.

Renault vs Ferrari
Vetel & Bourdais faster than Coulthard & Webber .....

Will be interesting to watch

Vettel wasn't better than Liuzzi in the dry, so I don't know how hes going to be a match for the Red Bull drivers. Bourdais will be interesting to see, but his whinging attitude won't do him any favours.

**KahiroSamo** · 01-17-2008, 05:44 PM

I can't see it (STR above RB) happening as STR will start the year with last year's car.

And when will they get the new car? In the second half of the year?

I hope STR will be sold (as soon as possible) to someone, who will operate independently. STR is a pure B-team and will always trail the A-team without any chance of achieving anything. Even Super Aguri has more freedom in their decisions.

**StanWatts** · 01-17-2008, 06:12 PM

nope

when it comes to updates for the car RBR will always be one step ahead of STR. PLus i feel they have a better driver lineup

Will be interesting to see how Sebastien Bonehead goes though

**sandyphoebetvmaa** · 01-18-2008, 05:01 AM

I think they will outshine the A-Team, Coulthard is way past it (well, he was three years ago) and Webber will never amount to anything, surely everyone has realised that by now!? Bourdais will probably impress in the second half of the season and Vettel will only get better.

Do remember when Liuzzi outpaced Vettel, he had two years of experience and Vettel just two races!

**MaigicyuNinia** · 01-18-2008, 07:35 AM

Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present.

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

**KuevDulin** · 01-18-2008, 07:37 AM

STR has more hossies in da back of da car.

**SantaClaus** · 01-18-2008, 01:33 PM

Unfortunately, the answer to the thread-starter's question is no. RBR (along with DC and Webber) are given priority. STR will have to wait for the RB4 towards the latter portion of the season.

I am looking for a positive season from STR and am confident that the Seb's can shine later in the season. I just hope both STR driver's can impress enough people to either make the A-team or move up the ladder to another team.

Der Seb is young and full of talent, so I'm anticipating a lot of development from this chap. Le Seb is a champion in every form of racing that he has been a part of and I'm sure he has the same ambitions for F1.

Testing may not prove anything, but at least there's a fire sparked under STR and they seem ready to fight.

**Smeaphvalialm** · 01-18-2008, 02:59 PM

i for one would like to see STRR finish ahead of RBR on at least a few occasions (on merit, not on retirements.)

**derisgun** · 01-19-2008, 02:11 AM

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

YES! Because some of us still remember that team as MINARDI! And love to see those guys scoring points and looking at podiums, because they fully deserve it

**SantaClaus** · 01-19-2008, 09:51 AM

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

Yes! Why would disregarding any team be healthy for F1? I could be a fan for any of the top shooters, but I'd rather stick with the underdog and see how they develop. This just has to do with my preference and if it doesn't suit you, then oh well.

I just wanted to metion that my STR shirt came in from the UK last night.

Scuderia Toro Rosso!!

**Smeaphvalialm** · 01-19-2008, 03:42 PM

Does it really matter?

Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care?

Sure! We all like to see the Davids wipe out the Goliaths (at least once in awhile)

**nerohedfrs** · 01-20-2008, 01:03 AM

I used to love supporting Minardi, like most F1 fans apart from those snobs who used to treat them like something they stepped in.

When they scored points in the old days it was great, and most of their guys are still with STR now.

I'm just curious as to what Bourdais has been whinging about in the past?

**derisgun** · 01-20-2008, 01:46 AM

He just complained about Paul Tracy whenever Paul Tracy crashed into him...

Funnily enough, some people didn't see it that way... So (because he's French probably

) Seb was 'whingeing', but Paul was 'tellin it like it is' etc...
Just depends which side of the fence you sit.

**nerohedfrs** · 01-20-2008, 02:08 AM

Didn't Paul Tracy crash into quite a few people?

It's the American attitude towards 'foreign' drivers again.

It's disgusting how people like Villeneuve, JPM and Franchitti are being treated by so-called NASCAR 'purists'.

'Le Seb' as someone called him will do pretty well. After all he's won a prestigious seried 4 times in a row, he must be good. And he did some good times last week for STR.

**derisgun** · 01-20-2008, 02:29 AM

Well, the Canadian's didn't really seem to take to Seb too well either...

But then again there are a lot of people who don't like Tracy!

Montoya hasn't been treated too badly, but a lot of people, me included, want to see him fall flat on his face! Franchitti actually has been pretty well received. Winning Indy so recently means people have a lot more respect for him. He's also never been an F1 driver, so he's not a has-been trying to scrape a ride.
And the NASCAR 'purists' are pretty divided about the open-wheel influx, so don't be too quick to judge that scenario. It's like saying 'The F1 world is captivated by Lewis Hamilton' No we're not! He's just another rookie who did well in probably the best car of the year.. Must F1 'purists' can see that and not get obsessive over one driver, just as those of us who properly follow racing know just how good Bourdais is, as opposed to those who just think of failed Indycar/CART drivers in F1 and lump him in with them...

Personally I don;t think getting beaten by Vettel is a disgrace, as Vettel (ironically) has much more F1 experience. I am growing ever more uncertain about Mark Webber's relative merits.. I hope 'Minardi' beat Red Bull this season, 'cos I ama huge Minardi fan. And I wonder why Webber has never raced for Renault, when you consider the talent Flavio has nurtured and discovered.. (Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella, Trulli)
However he was wrong about one J.Button, but I still believe Toro Rosso has the more talented driver lineup, but experience (team and drivers) will count over the course of the season.

**nerohedfrs** · 01-20-2008, 02:49 AM

Button is better than Webber and I think better deserves a top seat.

I am a Hamilton fan but not obsessed with him like the media seems to be. When I watch the ITV coverage I want to hear about Fisi and Jarno and Coulthard and Davidson as well, not just Lewis, Lewis , Lewis. I think he's fantastic and I hope he wins the championship, but there are 22 cars out there in 2008 not just the number 22.

With the NASCAR thing, i wonder if they would be so hostile to Michael Schumacher if he raced there. Surely they wouldn't just dismiss him as 'another open-wheel driver' taking the place of a young star. Possibly because him and JPM are the only F1 drivers Americans have heard of makes them less despised than someone like Villeneuve.

i hope they all do well this year and shut some people up.

I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be.

**derisgun** · 01-21-2008, 12:13 AM

I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be.

Are you talking about F1 or NASCAR?

I'm looking forward to both, and maybe to F1 a bit more this year, hope Felipe gets the championship and Heidfeld gets a win!

NASCAR-wise, there's no way the rookie crop could be worse than last year!
Hopefully Tony will get the title and Franchitti gets a win, same for Blaney

P.S- agree about Webber and Button..

**nerohedfrs** · 01-21-2008, 06:39 AM

I was talking about F1 but I agree with you about the NASCAR rookies lol.

I think Johnson will win the title again and I hope Brian Vickers wins one for Red Bull. I think there will be a good scrap at one of the road courses between JV and JPM. Could be fun.

I think Toro Rosso have a good shot at beating RBR but I think DC and Webber will do enough to beat them in the end. I said in the ;08 predictions thread that I think DC will get a couple of podiums, so I have to back him at the risk of looking stupid

01-17-2008, 03:02 PM	#1
AndyPharmc Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 461 Senior Member	Toro vs RB Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present. Renault vs Ferrari Vetel & Bourdais faster than Coulthard & Webber ..... Will be interesting to watch Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-17-2008, 03:36 PM	#2
urbalatte Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 679 Senior Member	Doubt it. They only beat Red Bull outright last year once and that was in changing conditions... But then again anything will be possible if they manage to take the RBR cars out of higher positions like in Japan. EDIT: As they'll be running the same car it'll also be as temperamental as the RB4 if it is unreliable. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-17-2008, 03:40 PM	#3
blogwado Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 526 Senior Member	Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present. Renault vs Ferrari Vetel & Bourdais faster than Coulthard & Webber ..... Will be interesting to watch Vettel wasn't better than Liuzzi in the dry, so I don't know how hes going to be a match for the Red Bull drivers. Bourdais will be interesting to see, but his whinging attitude won't do him any favours. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-17-2008, 05:44 PM	#4
KahiroSamo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 461 Senior Member	I can't see it (STR above RB) happening as STR will start the year with last year's car. And when will they get the new car? In the second half of the year? I hope STR will be sold (as soon as possible) to someone, who will operate independently. STR is a pure B-team and will always trail the A-team without any chance of achieving anything. Even Super Aguri has more freedom in their decisions. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-17-2008, 06:12 PM	#5
StanWatts Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 418 Senior Member	nope when it comes to updates for the car RBR will always be one step ahead of STR. PLus i feel they have a better driver lineup Will be interesting to see how Sebastien Bonehead goes though Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-18-2008, 05:01 AM	#6
sandyphoebetvmaa Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 599 Senior Member	I think they will outshine the A-Team, Coulthard is way past it (well, he was three years ago) and Webber will never amount to anything, surely everyone has realised that by now!? Bourdais will probably impress in the second half of the season and Vettel will only get better. Do remember when Liuzzi outpaced Vettel, he had two years of experience and Vettel just two races! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-18-2008, 07:35 AM	#7
MaigicyuNinia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 525 Senior Member	Will Toro Rosso end up above Red Bull in the Championship. It looks possible at present. Does it really matter? Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-18-2008, 07:37 AM	#8
KuevDulin Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 362 Senior Member	STR has more hossies in da back of da car. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-18-2008, 01:33 PM	#9
SantaClaus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 704 Senior Member	Unfortunately, the answer to the thread-starter's question is no. RBR (along with DC and Webber) are given priority. STR will have to wait for the RB4 towards the latter portion of the season. I am looking for a positive season from STR and am confident that the Seb's can shine later in the season. I just hope both STR driver's can impress enough people to either make the A-team or move up the ladder to another team. Der Seb is young and full of talent, so I'm anticipating a lot of development from this chap. Le Seb is a champion in every form of racing that he has been a part of and I'm sure he has the same ambitions for F1. Testing may not prove anything, but at least there's a fire sparked under STR and they seem ready to fight. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-18-2008, 02:59 PM	#10
Smeaphvalialm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 441 Senior Member	i for one would like to see STRR finish ahead of RBR on at least a few occasions (on merit, not on retirements.) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-19-2008, 02:11 AM	#11
derisgun Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	Does it really matter? Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care? YES! Because some of us still remember that team as MINARDI! And love to see those guys scoring points and looking at podiums, because they fully deserve it Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-19-2008, 09:51 AM	#12
SantaClaus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 704 Senior Member	Does it really matter? Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care? Yes! Why would disregarding any team be healthy for F1? I could be a fan for any of the top shooters, but I'd rather stick with the underdog and see how they develop. This just has to do with my preference and if it doesn't suit you, then oh well. I just wanted to metion that my STR shirt came in from the UK last night. Scuderia Toro Rosso!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-19-2008, 03:42 PM	#13
Smeaphvalialm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 441 Senior Member	Does it really matter? Beyond a few fans and drivers who got absolutely nothing better to do, does anyone else really care? Sure! We all like to see the Davids wipe out the Goliaths (at least once in awhile) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-20-2008, 01:03 AM	#14
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	I used to love supporting Minardi, like most F1 fans apart from those snobs who used to treat them like something they stepped in. When they scored points in the old days it was great, and most of their guys are still with STR now. I'm just curious as to what Bourdais has been whinging about in the past? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-20-2008, 01:46 AM	#15
derisgun Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	He just complained about Paul Tracy whenever Paul Tracy crashed into him... Funnily enough, some people didn't see it that way... So (because he's French probably) Seb was 'whingeing', but Paul was 'tellin it like it is' etc... Just depends which side of the fence you sit. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-20-2008, 02:08 AM	#16
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Didn't Paul Tracy crash into quite a few people? It's the American attitude towards 'foreign' drivers again. It's disgusting how people like Villeneuve, JPM and Franchitti are being treated by so-called NASCAR 'purists'. 'Le Seb' as someone called him will do pretty well. After all he's won a prestigious seried 4 times in a row, he must be good. And he did some good times last week for STR. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-20-2008, 02:29 AM	#17
derisgun Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	Well, the Canadian's didn't really seem to take to Seb too well either... But then again there are a lot of people who don't like Tracy! Montoya hasn't been treated too badly, but a lot of people, me included, want to see him fall flat on his face! Franchitti actually has been pretty well received. Winning Indy so recently means people have a lot more respect for him. He's also never been an F1 driver, so he's not a has-been trying to scrape a ride. And the NASCAR 'purists' are pretty divided about the open-wheel influx, so don't be too quick to judge that scenario. It's like saying 'The F1 world is captivated by Lewis Hamilton' No we're not! He's just another rookie who did well in probably the best car of the year.. Must F1 'purists' can see that and not get obsessive over one driver, just as those of us who properly follow racing know just how good Bourdais is, as opposed to those who just think of failed Indycar/CART drivers in F1 and lump him in with them... Personally I don;t think getting beaten by Vettel is a disgrace, as Vettel (ironically) has much more F1 experience. I am growing ever more uncertain about Mark Webber's relative merits.. I hope 'Minardi' beat Red Bull this season, 'cos I ama huge Minardi fan. And I wonder why Webber has never raced for Renault, when you consider the talent Flavio has nurtured and discovered.. (Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella, Trulli) However he was wrong about one J.Button, but I still believe Toro Rosso has the more talented driver lineup, but experience (team and drivers) will count over the course of the season. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-20-2008, 02:49 AM	#18
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Button is better than Webber and I think better deserves a top seat. I am a Hamilton fan but not obsessed with him like the media seems to be. When I watch the ITV coverage I want to hear about Fisi and Jarno and Coulthard and Davidson as well, not just Lewis, Lewis , Lewis. I think he's fantastic and I hope he wins the championship, but there are 22 cars out there in 2008 not just the number 22. With the NASCAR thing, i wonder if they would be so hostile to Michael Schumacher if he raced there. Surely they wouldn't just dismiss him as 'another open-wheel driver' taking the place of a young star. Possibly because him and JPM are the only F1 drivers Americans have heard of makes them less despised than someone like Villeneuve. i hope they all do well this year and shut some people up. I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-21-2008, 12:13 AM	#19
derisgun Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	I just want a fantastic season and I'm sure it wil be very close and very exciting. The new drivers are exciting and it will be interesting to see if the rookie crop is as strong this year as it was in '07. It could well be. Are you talking about F1 or NASCAR? I'm looking forward to both, and maybe to F1 a bit more this year, hope Felipe gets the championship and Heidfeld gets a win! NASCAR-wise, there's no way the rookie crop could be worse than last year! Hopefully Tony will get the title and Franchitti gets a win, same for Blaney P.S- agree about Webber and Button.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-21-2008, 06:39 AM	#20
nerohedfrs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	I was talking about F1 but I agree with you about the NASCAR rookies lol. I think Johnson will win the title again and I hope Brian Vickers wins one for Red Bull. I think there will be a good scrap at one of the road courses between JV and JPM. Could be fun. I think Toro Rosso have a good shot at beating RBR but I think DC and Webber will do enough to beat them in the end. I said in the ;08 predictions thread that I think DC will get a couple of podiums, so I have to back him at the risk of looking stupid Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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