McLaren crew spilt the beans for Hamilton.. terrible *Merged* - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**errolespopume** · 10-07-2007, 05:10 PM

its nothing to do with justice mate.it was a silly mistake by the mclaren crew sitting bourne-idle while Lewis work hard on the track.. !

well... regards to the WDC.. its still possible , but the chances are getting a bit low in terms of if for some reason Lewis wont have any more races left to say I will be back , if he wobble again in Brazil ;-)

anyhow Kimi proving to be driving really well today, I am very happy for him.

My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round.

**enfoires** · 10-07-2007, 05:12 PM

true, but stopping 2-5 laps earlier and it wouldn't have been an issue, he clearly had no grip, losiong so much time, you could see the canvas through the rear tyres, it was the time to play safe.

The weather changes kept the team on their toes, they were waiting to see what happens.
Interesting enough other divers were able to wait for a clear weather forecast without destroying their tires.

I also think he cracked under the pressure and made a mistake when entering the pits to fast.

**Investblogger** · 10-07-2007, 05:14 PM

agreed

but his tyres were in reall bad shape and the team knew it. It would not have made a difference if he came in 1 or 2 laps earlier. That being said he should have taken the corner with extreme caution. If he did that he would have been WDC today.

It was obvious for about 4 laps that he needed to pit. These guys are the best in the world?!

I don't think it's that simple. In a damp track situation and with the eventuality of rain, you want to maximize your options, and that means to pit as late as possible. It's easy to say now that the stop was too late, and I agree. But had he avoided the gravel trap he would be WDC now.

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

I thought the same, but there are also factors that need to be considered. KR mentioned the graining period, and it's very possible that FM had the graining problem around the time that he found FA in front of him.

**errolespopume** · 10-07-2007, 05:18 PM

The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004.
That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous.
Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos.

**enfoires** · 10-07-2007, 05:20 PM

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

Not losing the occasion to denigrate a driver you don't like, who started a thread to complain that people do attack Hamilton?!

**DJElizardo** · 10-07-2007, 05:20 PM

I loved every minute of it.

**juliannamed** · 10-07-2007, 05:22 PM

well.. at interlagos.. its all Lewis hamilton to lose!
FA and KR are just going to take extra risks to win the race, and FM going to find that extra tengths there as its his home gp.
all to play for!

Mclaren today shouldnt have taken such risk of running LH on ice.. he was clearly struggling and its insane allowing him to continue. now does the race engineer of LH going to get his ass kicked or not?
greediness took the toll of it.. no points finish for lewis.

like F1boat said.. its indeed going to be a thriller in fortnight

**bomondus** · 10-07-2007, 05:25 PM

The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004.
That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous.
Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos.

I am already clearing my schedule. I'm not missing this race at all.
I was hoping for a coronation today and felt good for a while.

in two weeks, I'll admit, I'll be nervous,
The only solace I can take is that LH didn't seem to feel the pressure while driving and was pulling away before the tyre fiasco and pit-in.

With two weeks to recharge and focus, I suspect that he will give his best. And I'm pretty sure that at this point with Alonso throwing the team under the bus, they too would be entirely behind him.

The drama!

**hauptdaunnila** · 10-07-2007, 05:27 PM

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.

**LClan439** · 10-07-2007, 05:30 PM

My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round.

Yes, whoever wins will have shown that he well deserves this one.

I just hope that I can enjoy Brazil from my own home, and not have to search a strange city for a hotel which has Speed Channel.

**bomondus** · 10-07-2007, 05:30 PM

Not losing the occasion to denigrate a driver you don't like, who started a thread to complain that people do attack Hamilton?!

first of all. who said I don't like Massa

second, I am stating the obvoius,
did alonso not pull out 8 seconds over massa in a very short time?
did kimmi not need massa to overtake alonso?
when it mattered the most for his teamate and the team, he showed nothing.

please don't confuse observations with denigration
unless you think I've done a 180 and am denigrating Lewis Hamiton and Mcclaren with my comments.

give it a rest ion,

focus on the topic and stop with the stupid partisanship
can't you even take a ferrari win with some dignity?

**UriDepkeeks** · 10-07-2007, 05:30 PM

If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless.

Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that.

**bomondus** · 10-07-2007, 05:32 PM

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.

you mean the pressure of cruising home 2nd and making sure he didn't blow his WDC chances. Massa didn't put any pressure on Alonso at all.

**Angeheade** · 10-07-2007, 05:33 PM

Martin Whitmarsh has just told ITV that it was a team error and, with hindsight, they'd have brought Hamilton in a lap earlier.

However, I still think Lewis was a tad optomistic with his pitlane entry speed.

Hey, if the marshals had pushed him out of the gravel you guys would have created uproar!

A sensible summary

McLaren made a miscalculation in keeping Lewis out there for so long, but ultimately they would've gotten away with it, had Lewis taken a bit more care on entering the pitlane. As both McLaren and Hamilton have each accepted their share of blame for the incident, I think we can put this one to bed.

Shame there wasn't a crane at the end of that pitlane, mind

**Immerymopay** · 10-07-2007, 05:34 PM

Hello!!
L.H. drove his car into a gravel trap because for all intents, and puposes he was driving on slicks, and the pit entry was more wet than the line on the track.
Don't try to put this on his team.
He made a silly mistake
No matter what the "Company Line" is.

Terrible???
Maybe a terrible lack of concentration by the driver!

**Angeheade** · 10-07-2007, 05:34 PM

I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake.

Most drivers were posting their fastest times during the last few laps, simply because the track was improving. To suggest that Massa was cruising, and only tried to push towards the end, is a bit unfair.

**bomondus** · 10-07-2007, 05:38 PM

Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that.

c'mon fellows let's not play semantics here,
in this race, with these stakes, with this situation, was Massa up to the job?
Kimmi in an identical car managed to maintain and increase his gap to Alonso, Massa on the other hand drove about 10 very subpar laps that saw him fall back by over 8 seconds to Alonso, what am I missing?

That is the gist of that argument, not that his fastest laps at the end prove he's a #2, his 10-12 laps whenit mattered proved his a #2,
can you honestly say that in the same situation, Kimmi would have fallen back 8 seconds to alonso?

**excivaamome** · 10-07-2007, 05:39 PM

Some very interesting comments. However, I have to admit that I gutted by this result.

In my opinion Lewis has missed a wonderful opportunity. I now make Alonso the favourite to take the title. Kimi is still 7pts behind and really needs another retirement from Lewis to take the title. Alonso however, knows it's now a do or die scenario. He will give it his all and I think have the edge.

I hate to say it, but I see Alonso out duelling Kimi for the win, and Lewis coming in 3rd or 4th.

Shame, but in F1 to finish first, first you must finish. Lewis is still ahead, but to me, Alonso is the favourite now.

**bomondus** · 10-07-2007, 05:43 PM

Most drivers were posting their fastest times during the last few laps, simply because the track was improving. To suggest that Massa was cruising, and only tried to push towards the end, is a bit unfair.

I was not suggesting that he was cruising, but that he wasn't pushing. in those critical out laps. And the fact that most drivers were doing their best times at the end of the GP further proves my point that those final fast laps had no bearing on the race. He should have been pushing at the beginning of that final stint with alonso on his nose. I'm not knocking the fastest laps, buty just saying that they were not an indicator of his agressivness in the race when it mattered

**Immerymopay** · 10-07-2007, 05:47 PM

Do you think the fastest laps of the race being at the end had anything to do with the TRACK BEING DRYER???

10-07-2007, 05:10 PM	#21
errolespopume Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 474 Senior Member	its nothing to do with justice mate.it was a silly mistake by the mclaren crew sitting bourne-idle while Lewis work hard on the track.. ! well... regards to the WDC.. its still possible , but the chances are getting a bit low in terms of if for some reason Lewis wont have any more races left to say I will be back , if he wobble again in Brazil ;-) anyhow Kimi proving to be driving really well today, I am very happy for him. My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:12 PM	#22
enfoires Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 527 Senior Member	true, but stopping 2-5 laps earlier and it wouldn't have been an issue, he clearly had no grip, losiong so much time, you could see the canvas through the rear tyres, it was the time to play safe. The weather changes kept the team on their toes, they were waiting to see what happens. Interesting enough other divers were able to wait for a clear weather forecast without destroying their tires. I also think he cracked under the pressure and made a mistake when entering the pits to fast. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:14 PM	#23
Investblogger Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	agreed but his tyres were in reall bad shape and the team knew it. It would not have made a difference if he came in 1 or 2 laps earlier. That being said he should have taken the corner with extreme caution. If he did that he would have been WDC today. It was obvious for about 4 laps that he needed to pit. These guys are the best in the world?! I don't think it's that simple. In a damp track situation and with the eventuality of rain, you want to maximize your options, and that means to pit as late as possible. It's easy to say now that the stop was too late, and I agree. But had he avoided the gravel trap he would be WDC now. If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless. I thought the same, but there are also factors that need to be considered. KR mentioned the graining period, and it's very possible that FM had the graining problem around the time that he found FA in front of him. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:18 PM	#24
errolespopume Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 474 Senior Member	The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004. That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous. Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:20 PM	#25
enfoires Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 527 Senior Member	If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless. Not losing the occasion to denigrate a driver you don't like, who started a thread to complain that people do attack Hamilton?! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:20 PM	#26
DJElizardo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 456 Senior Member	I loved every minute of it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:22 PM	#27
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	well.. at interlagos.. its all Lewis hamilton to lose! FA and KR are just going to take extra risks to win the race, and FM going to find that extra tengths there as its his home gp. all to play for! Mclaren today shouldnt have taken such risk of running LH on ice.. he was clearly struggling and its insane allowing him to continue. now does the race engineer of LH going to get his ass kicked or not? greediness took the toll of it.. no points finish for lewis. like F1boat said.. its indeed going to be a thriller in fortnight Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:25 PM	#28
bomondus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	The reality is that this is a very close season and both teams are very nervous. McLaren still have the upper hand, but they have already lost one championship and their drivers are hating each other. Ferrari made many mistakes an many people critisize them, that their level fell after 2004. That's the reason. This championship proved to be very, very close and very, very nervous. Add to this that the Brazil track always surprises teams and we have a thriller awaiting us in Interlagos. I am already clearing my schedule. I'm not missing this race at all. I was hoping for a coronation today and felt good for a while. in two weeks, I'll admit, I'll be nervous, The only solace I can take is that LH didn't seem to feel the pressure while driving and was pulling away before the tyre fiasco and pit-in. With two weeks to recharge and focus, I suspect that he will give his best. And I'm pretty sure that at this point with Alonso throwing the team under the bus, they too would be entirely behind him. The drama! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:27 PM	#29
hauptdaunnila Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 534 Senior Member	If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless. I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:30 PM	#30
LClan439 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 459 Senior Member	My point is that Ferrari had so many problems this season, and you see, Lewis had the FIA support here and there... it shows that F1 is a very competitive sport and nobody can really fix it. Nobody is safe. It is still very tough challenge. No matter who wins the championship in the end, it will be a richly deserved championship. I think that for the first time since 1986 we have three drivers fighting for the crown in the final round. Yes, whoever wins will have shown that he well deserves this one. I just hope that I can enjoy Brazil from my own home, and not have to search a strange city for a hotel which has Speed Channel. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:30 PM	#32
UriDepkeeks Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 396 Senior Member	If massa would have done better laps and stayed close to Alonso, then LH and Kimmi might have been in a better situation, but as usual Massa shows why he's a #2. Those fast laps at the end are meaningless. Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2007, 05:32 PM	#33
bomondus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	I disagree. Those fastest laps towards the end would have kept the pressure on Alonso and who knows, could have induced a mistake. you mean the pressure of cruising home 2nd and making sure he didn't blow his WDC chances. Massa didn't put any pressure on Alonso at all. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:33 PM	#34
Angeheade Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 679 Senior Member	Martin Whitmarsh has just told ITV that it was a team error and, with hindsight, they'd have brought Hamilton in a lap earlier. However, I still think Lewis was a tad optomistic with his pitlane entry speed. Hey, if the marshals had pushed him out of the gravel you guys would have created uproar! A sensible summary McLaren made a miscalculation in keeping Lewis out there for so long, but ultimately they would've gotten away with it, had Lewis taken a bit more care on entering the pitlane. As both McLaren and Hamilton have each accepted their share of blame for the incident, I think we can put this one to bed. Shame there wasn't a crane at the end of that pitlane, mind Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:34 PM	#35
Immerymopay Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 492 Senior Member	Hello!! L.H. drove his car into a gravel trap because for all intents, and puposes he was driving on slicks, and the pit entry was more wet than the line on the track. Don't try to put this on his team. He made a silly mistake No matter what the "Company Line" is. Terrible??? Maybe a terrible lack of concentration by the driver! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:38 PM	#37
bomondus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	Kimi's randomly done a fast lap at the end of the race this year too, so you can't really use the argument that it shows he's a #2 like that. c'mon fellows let's not play semantics here, in this race, with these stakes, with this situation, was Massa up to the job? Kimmi in an identical car managed to maintain and increase his gap to Alonso, Massa on the other hand drove about 10 very subpar laps that saw him fall back by over 8 seconds to Alonso, what am I missing? That is the gist of that argument, not that his fastest laps at the end prove he's a #2, his 10-12 laps whenit mattered proved his a #2, can you honestly say that in the same situation, Kimmi would have fallen back 8 seconds to alonso? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:39 PM	#38
excivaamome Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 381 Senior Member	Some very interesting comments. However, I have to admit that I gutted by this result. In my opinion Lewis has missed a wonderful opportunity. I now make Alonso the favourite to take the title. Kimi is still 7pts behind and really needs another retirement from Lewis to take the title. Alonso however, knows it's now a do or die scenario. He will give it his all and I think have the edge. I hate to say it, but I see Alonso out duelling Kimi for the win, and Lewis coming in 3rd or 4th. Shame, but in F1 to finish first, first you must finish. Lewis is still ahead, but to me, Alonso is the favourite now. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:43 PM	#39
bomondus Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	Most drivers were posting their fastest times during the last few laps, simply because the track was improving. To suggest that Massa was cruising, and only tried to push towards the end, is a bit unfair. I was not suggesting that he was cruising, but that he wasn't pushing. in those critical out laps. And the fact that most drivers were doing their best times at the end of the GP further proves my point that those final fast laps had no bearing on the race. He should have been pushing at the beginning of that final stint with alonso on his nose. I'm not knocking the fastest laps, buty just saying that they were not an indicator of his agressivness in the race when it mattered Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-07-2007, 05:47 PM	#40
Immerymopay Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 492 Senior Member	Do you think the fastest laps of the race being at the end had anything to do with the TRACK BEING DRYER??? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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