[casinobonyanes]

I think it's worse than that. People tend to have conditioned responses to questions of faith and belief. Just ask a non-standard question and watch the look of confusion come over them. What would be a non-standard question? "Define God." Nice and simple? Something at the heart of most religious beliefs? It stops a lot of people cold. People are not doing their own thinking. If the answers are not spoon fed, the majority have nothing.

Jonathan Lobl

I think defining God is something that most people would struggle with and especially if one was asking for approval of such a definition.
I agree. In my experience, many do not dare do their own thinking because personal rejection usually follows anyone who shows original thought and that can sometimes be hostile. (IMO) Most fundamental faiths base their friends upon those who think likewise and their enemies who differ from their viewpoint.

[wgX44EEn]

I think defining God is something that most people would struggle with and especially if one was asking for approval of such a definition.
I agree. In my experience, many do not dare do their own thinking because personal rejection usually follows anyone who shows original thought and that can sometimes be hostile. (IMO) Most fundamental faiths base their friends upon those who think likewise and their enemies who differ from their viewpoint.

I don't want to give the impression that I hold Christians to higher standards than anybody else. Ask the avereage Jew what the difference is between Reform and Conservative Judaism. Or the differences between Hassidic Judaism and non-hassidic Orthodox.

Some are highly knowledgeable. I find that most have nothing. In general, religious education has been an astounding failure.

Jonathan Lobl

[Hokimjers]

I don't want to give the impression that I hold Christians to higher standards than anybody else. Ask the avereage Jew what the difference is between Reform and Conservative Judaism. Or the differences between Hassidic Judaism and non-hassidic Orthodox.

Some are highly knowledgeable. I find that most have nothing. In general, religious education has been an astounding failure.

Jonathan Lobl

What would be "having something". It is something that is deeply personal to the individual and I believe that is true to all religious stances. (IMO) Just as it is difficult to totally define God to the satisfaction of another, it is often hard to explain a religious experience to another. For example:- I find this true when an atheist talks to a believe of some spiritual faith or other, and visa versa, then they may as well be speaking two differing languages. A person chooses to be open to it or not, according to their adopted model of the world (IMO).

[DongoSab]

Jonathan,

Unfortunately I have to agree as to the state of religious education in most of the Jewish community. Part of that, of course, is the fact the time each week is relatively short and most of the kids stop coming either post-bar/bat mitzvah or confirmation. And since we're talking about kids from approx. 7 - 15 years of age, at best they are getting only a decent elementary education.

There has to be a better way. Jewish day schools are helping, but for those who don't attend them, someone will have to figure it out.

Shalom,

Peter

[sFs4aOok]

Jonathan,

Unfortunately I have to agree as to the state of religious education in most of the Jewish community. Part of that, of course, is the fact the time each week is relatively short and most of the kids stop coming either post-bar/bat mitzvah or confirmation. And since we're talking about kids from approx. 7 - 15 years of age, at best they are getting only a decent elementary education.

There has to be a better way. Jewish day schools are helping, but for those who don't attend them, someone will have to figure it out.

Shalom,

Peter

Yes. When I was a child, I got sent to Reform Sunday school. It was more history lesson than anything else. At that, it was mostly what THEY had done to US. The religious content was, at best, uninspired. Looking back, I would say it was empty. As an adult, I re-read my text books. It's a wonder Reform is still in business at all.

Jonathan Lobl

[Avaindimik]

without judaism there would be no christianity or no islam

[leflyCode]

without judaism there would be no christianity or no islam

I keep thinking how much better off the world would be without any of them.

[hellenmoranov]

Jesus was a Jew, and Buddha was a Hindu. Out of their teachings two great religions evolved.

Hermano Luis
Morivií Hermitage

Yes, but I don't think either of them meant to start new religions. Jesus was attempting to reform Judaism. Buddha was trying to reform his religion.

Such is the sadness of history.

Jonathan Lobl

[wCYvMKAc]

I keep thinking how much better off the world would be without any of them.

Just so -- and AMEN!

Jonathan Lobl

[Pdarassenko]

~ I knew a guy that said once, "Of Jesus was Christian. He had blue eyes!"
... No amount of fact or anything was going to change that viewpoint

Had a friend proud of his Spanish ancestry, had never heard of the Moorish invasion... How?

I prefer the line -- "Jesus must have been Mexican. He had a Mexican name."

Jonathan Lobl

[Eugen80]

I keep thinking how much better off the world would be without any of them.

But you also need to think about where we'd be if we'd never had any religions: Hiding in a cave screaming at the wind-"What are you? What are you? What are you? What are you?"


A wrong answer, is still an answer. And if it's 'right enough', you can get on with living, instead of answering questions...

[forextradinginfo]

But you also need to think about where we'd be if we'd never had any religions: Hiding in a cave screaming at the wind-"What are you? What are you? What are you? What are you?"


A wrong answer, is still an answer. And if it's 'right enough', you can get on with living, instead of answering questions...

Isn't that largly what science is? Answering questions? Those answers are frequently incorrect, but there is a different mind set behind them.

Jonathan Lobl

[Imagimifouxum]

Yes, you are absolutely right.
And science has shown a possible 'superiority' in it's ability to produce reliable results.

The fact of the matter remains that religion was mans original answer. And religion was the answer we gave while we looked for a better answer. Religion is also a big part of how and why we have Science.


There is a different mindset behind science. That's what makes it a slightly better answer. And I'm positive that someday that mindset will change, and we will think of an even better answer.

(How can you have a better answer than science? I don't know, ask the Biblical Abraham how there could be a better answer than religion....)

[Ikhqgvas]

if jesus really existed,would it change the message of love for all things and all people,if he were/weren't jewish?

[lipitrRrxX]

if jesus really existed,would it change the message of love for all things and all people,if he were/weren't jewish?

I doubt that the message would have been any different. Every now and then an "enlightened" person (I just had to use that word) comes along. They appear in many different parts of the world within a vast variety of conditions.

Peace & Love!

[bonyclayd]

if jesus really existed,would it change the message of love for all things and all people,if he were/weren't jewish?

Perhaps. A teacher does not teach in the abstract. No matter how advanced the teacher is -- the teacher can only teach what the students are ready to understand.

It was Paul, not Jesus, who took the message to the gentile world. Different teachers for different students.

Jonathan Lobl

[__CVineXPharm__]

Perhaps. A teacher does not teach in the abstract. No matter how advanced the teacher is -- the teacher can only teach what the students are ready to understand.

It was Paul, not Jesus, who took the message to the gentile world. Different teachers for different students.

Jonathan Lobl

thats looking

[MarlboroCig]

From ULC in the UK
I am afraid, this first, of a new (UK channel 4) TV series on Christianity in History is only available for 30 more days. The series talks about the history that both Jews and Christians shared and I admit its not a pretty one but if your like me and want to seek truth wherever it comes from then I feel this is an important programme. Also if Christianity and Judaism are to live to respect each other then in my opinion then it needs to start with learning truths for ourselves and not that which is given us. Anyway that's just my opinion. Judge it for yourself.
http://www.channel4.com/catchup-play...24&episodeId=1

[vasyasvc]

Perhaps. A teacher does not teach in the abstract. No matter how advanced the teacher is -- the teacher can only teach what the students are ready to understand.

It was Paul, not Jesus, who took the message to the gentile world. Different teachers for different students.

Jonathan Lobl

I believe it was also Paul who formed modern day Christianity. If one reads the book of Galatians, then in the first two chapters Paul declares he had little to do with those disciples who knew Jesus and disagreed with Peter's continuing of Jewish customs. For me modern Christianity has more to do with Paul then Jesus.

[hhynmtrxcp]

I believe it was also Paul who formed modern day Christianity. If one reads the book of Galatians, then in the first two chapters Paul declares he had little to do with those disciples who knew Jesus and disagreed with Peter's continuing of Jewish customs. For me modern Christianity has more to do with Paul then Jesus.

Yes, it was Paul who was the force behind the new religion.

Jonathan Lobl