[rNr5Di3S]

(Just a thought) I thought it was people that had this atittude. How can faith (a system of beliefs that people follow for many, many different reasons) do anything?

There are other faiths who would see that happen, as well.

[quorceopporce]

Allow me to clarify:

Those who follow other religions/belief systems would do that as well.

[Pateeffelty]

Jesus Christ's teaching as presented by the established Christian churches is very much tied up with sin and I think it would be helpful to know what Solo understands by 'sin' and especially by 'original sin'.

Naked Rev

[Binuilienzync]

I was just poking.

At any rate....Anybody who follows any belief system will have problems with some other belief system. That's the problem with following beliefs and not living in direct cognition or being truly aware (not comparing, judging or philosophizing) of why we do what we do and think what we think. (and even that can be a belief unless it is actually practiced)

Allow me to clarify:

Those who follow other religions/belief systems would do that as well.

[Brainpole]

sorry this is off topic(ok i'm not),but it is good to see you again.not sure how i missed this thread,but i will be reading it,even if we disagree on the meaning of the message.

[SoorgoBardy]

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:1-29

Yes, it was Paul who wrote these words; not Jesus.

Jonathan Lobl

[R1king]

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.2 Peter 3:15-18

[T1ivuQGS]

Thank you all for your comments and encouragment. Many today twist the words of Jesus to say what they want them to say, so I am going to present them in the manner that he spoke them with references to the record where they are posted. In most cases I will use the King James Version of the Bible since it is in the public domain and has no copyright boundaries as do the modern translations. I have found the King James version (which has followed the Hebrew Masoretic text and the Greek Textus Receptus) to be the best English translation.

Now let us look futher into Jesus' teachings.

Jesus taught the common man, and he rejected the false religious teachings and practices of the scribes and pharisees. The scribes and pharisees continually tested Jesus and his practices because the common man were amazed by the authority and teachings of this man, Jesus!

In the following Scripture reference we see where the scribes and pharisees brought a woman who committed adultery to Jesus as he was teaching at the temple. The scribes and pharisees were testing Jesus, and they wanted him to make an error according to the Law of Moses and the rule of Roman law in Jerusalem at the time. Notice that Jesus asked for one who has not sinned cast the first stone after writing in the sand with his finger. Some thoughts on the things that Jesus wrote in the sand, were the sins of those present. All who had brought the woman to him to be stoned, left.


Jesus then looked at the woman who alone was standing before him, and he asked, "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?" The woman replied, "No man, Lord." After which Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
Jesus recognized that the woman had committed adultery, but he did not condemn her. Instead he told her to go and sin no more; in other words, Jesus told her to go and do not commit adultery any more.1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Jesus taught that he came into the world so that those who were lost could be found and saved, and that he did not come into the world to condemn the world, but by him, the world could be saved. Jesus also taught the people the truth of God's word, and not the traditions that kept the religious elite in power.

Now for a question. Why did Jesus tell the woman to go and sin no more?

Solo,

It is apparent from your choice of the KJV as the best translation of the Hebrew that you don't know Hebrew. It's apparent from your description of the scribes and Pharisees, including your description of the Pharisees as the religious leaders of the time, that you don't really know about the Pharisees. It is also apparent that your knowledge of Judaism is, in fact, no knowledge.

My suggestion? Talk all you want about what Jesus taught. Most of what he taught, as opposed to Paul, fits right in with normative Jewish belief and practice. But do me a favor, if you want to discuss Judaism - don't!

Shalom,

Peter

[Idonnaink]

It has been brought to my attention that in my previous post I came off sounding somewhat harsh and judgmental. In this regard let me say this, I agree that one should show respect and tolerance for the beliefs of others. As I have posted on other ULC affiliated sites, and other forums as well, Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in olam ha-bah, the world to come. One need not be Jewish to find favor with the divine. There are many paths that lead to the top of the mountain. As such I have no need to try to convince others that it is "my way or the highway." If any person has found a path that for him or her enables that person to relate more fully to the divine and others, that makes that person more complete and loving then no matter the path I say, "G-d bless you."

I do tend to respond strongly when either Judaism or Jews are misrepresented, even if unintentionally. For whatever reason Jews seem to be underrepresented on these forums. To allow certain comments to go unchallenged is to risk the perpetuation of false information because those reading the comments are equally unaware that the information provided is not information at all.

In the interest of what in Hebrew is called shalom by-it, peace of the house, I will however endeavor to strike a more conciliatory tone in the future.

Shalom,

Peter

[VtLe67WR]

It has been brought to my attention that in my previous post I came off sounding somewhat harsh and judgmental. In this regard let me say this, I agree that one should show respect and tolerance for the beliefs of others. As I have posted on other ULC affiliated sites, and other forums as well, Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in olam ha-bah, the world to come. One need not be Jewish to find favor with the divine. There are many paths that lead to the top of the mountain. As such I have no need to try to convince others that it is "my way or the highway." If any person has found a path that for him or her enables that person to relate more fully to the divine and others, that makes that person more complete and loving then no matter the path I say, "G-d bless you."

I do tend to respond strongly when either Judaism or Jews are misrepresented, even if unintentionally. For whatever reason Jews seem to be underrepresented on these forums. To allow certain comments to go unchallenged is to risk the perpetuation of false information because those reading the comments are equally unaware that the information provided is not information at all.

In the interest of what in Hebrew is called shalom by-it, peace of the house, I will however endeavor to strike a more conciliatory tone in the future.

Shalom,

Peter

And that brings us to the Apostle Paul's letter to the believers in the churches of Galatia whereby he states that there are no separation between Jews or Greeks, bond or free, male or female, to those who are in Christ Jesus; for in Him all are one in Him. Paul teaches us that the same faith that was accounted to Abraham for righteousness is available to all today. This same faith that was promised to Abraham is also promised to justify all who believe the God of Abraham; and through this faith all nations will be blessed.

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:1-29
Paul writes to the all believers at Philippi and encourages them to continue in their walk, and in this letter he speaks of his accomplishments as a Jew under the law, blameless.

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Philippians 3:1-21

The following online Bible website has many tools for the ardent Bible student including many translation versions and commentaries. http://bible.cc/


May the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob liberally bless each of us with His understanding with His wisdom to His glory.


Solo

[weluvjessicaalba]

Thank you to both of you working this out. We can learn the most from discussion and listening to each other.

[TypeTeasiaDer]

Thank you to both of you working this out. We can learn the most from discussion and listening to each other.

Rakehel,

You are most welcome, and thank you.

Many attack the messenger in forums, and refuse to comment in a positive manner to edify as opposed to the tearing down of another. When we love one another we are intent on seeing the best for each other, and at times that means a loving word of reproof, and/or correction. Those who are wise are able to learn from reproofs and corrections, and that is an intent that I strive for.

One of my favorite verses of Scripture follows (it is self explanatory):

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:15-17
May God bless us and liberally give us understanding and wisdom as we seek truth.

Solo

[11Pecepebra]

According to Matthew 1:21, Jesus was born to save us from our sins; sin being that which "misses the mark".
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His people? That would be the Jews.

Jonathan Lobl

[Czrzftmz]

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:1-29