[ssyyyrruho]

~ All I can reply to the above posts of abuse is send a (((HUG))) to each!
I'm so sorry & I really do wish there was a way I could make it better!!!

But 'the sins of the fathers', perhaps it could have meant sins against God or Gods, but too?
Maybe laws abused or altered to facilitate abuse of innocent people or damage to the environment {well, then it could have been a garbage dump near a well or somesuch}.
Just seems y'know, that what politicians could do then to damage the future is now exponentially larger & yeah... it's gonna be generations.

[HilaryNidierer]

I have always hear we pay for our fathers sins.

So my question to you my Tribal family is this...


Do we pay for our fathers sins?

What does this question mean to you?



Thoughts,please and thank you!

[petrarkaponye]

Hi TC,

I was going to give a simple "No" answer but realized that this is not really true.

As far as there being some almighty power keeping record and exacting revenge upon one's offspring, to this I say "No".

However, our father's sins will most likely become a part of our educations. They become a part of our past in our subconscious mind. These experiences will effect how we think and how we act in the future until the time that we have erased them from our memory.

So, in this regard, I must answer "Yes".

Peace & Love!

[QiuCIOdO]

I agree with JimBob. Yes we do because of our parent's actions becoming a part of us in many cases. Also, many time whether right or wrong, the children have to live with the reputations of their parents good or bad. Many times people will judge a person, or pre judge a person, by the acts of their parents.

[UncoonsKala]

Also, many time whether right or wrong, the children have to live with the reputations of their parents good or bad. Many times people will judge a person, or pre judge a person, by the acts of their parents.

And I will agree with this. (That didn't cross my mind when I was posting but it is a very valid observation.)

Peace & Love!

[PRengin]

Twilights child asked, "Do we pay for our father's sins?"

My question is why does it matter whether we do or don't? The question harbors bitterness and/or forgiveness.

We play the cards that we are dealt, whether its having a child molester father or having Gandhi. Either way, its up to us to live with the challenges that life has presented to us.

The question drags one into playing the blame game. I do my best to not play this game. An anomymus person pointed out, "When a man points a finger at someone else, he (or she) should remember that three fingers are pointing at himself (herself)." Focus on the three fingers, not the one.

[Gofthooxdix]

Twilights child asked, "Do we pay for our father's sins?"

My question is why does it matter whether we do or don't? The question harbors bitterness and/or forgiveness.

We play the cards that we are dealt, whether its having a child molester father or having Gandhi. Either way, its up to us to live with the challenges that life has presented to us.

The question drags one into playing the blame game. I do my best to not play this game. An anomymus person pointed out, "When a man points a finger at someone else, he (or she) should remember that three fingers are pointing at himself (herself)." Focus on the three fingers, not the one.

Excellent advice Debbie! I think your points are well made.

[johnteriz]

Twilights child asked, "Do we pay for our father's sins?"

My question is why does it matter whether we do or don't? The question harbors bitterness and/or forgiveness.

We play the cards that we are dealt, whether its having a child molester father or having Gandhi. Either way, its up to us to live with the challenges that life has presented to us.

The question drags one into playing the blame game. I do my best to not play this game. An anomymus person pointed out, "When a man points a finger at someone else, he (or she) should remember that three fingers are pointing at himself (herself)." Focus on the three fingers, not the one.

It matters, quite simply, because the enviroment we live in molds the person we are/ become. The question harbors nothing. It's but a question. The situation and prejudices of others harbors the bitterness, forgiveness, ect.

Of course we play the cards we are dealt. If our father wass a child molester, we live with the preconcieved notions of others that we: have those tendancies, are a victim, or have a warped view of the world, family, and relationships. If our father was a great man of peace such as Gandhi, we are expexcted to live up to that as well. It is the expectations, fears, opinions, and prejudices that are bequeathed us by our ancestors that are in actuality the "sins of our fathers" that are passed on to us. Sometimes it takes help and support to play those cards dealt to us. That's why it matters whether we do or don't. It's seldom an option that we do not.

It is not the sons and daughters of these kind of people that lay the blame. Nor do they point the finger. The blame or suspision is usualy leveled at them and the finger is pointed to them. I too, try not to play the blame game. And if the rest of the world would do the same as those of us who attempt this feat, it would be a better world. Unfortunately we are the minority in most cases. To ignore this is unwise and unrealistic. To say, "I do my best not to play the blame game" sounds well and good. But we cannot ignore the rest of society or the actions of others. And it is at times such as this that we must show a deep and honest compassion and understanding toward the sons and daughters who are in reality victims of the actions of those who came before them.

[Diandaplaipsy]

I agree with JimBob.

[johnstylet]

"Do we Pay for our fathers sins?" is a Good question, but shouldn't it have a second part..."Do we LEARN from our fathers sins?"

I paid for my fathers alcoholism, with low self esteem / sense of self worth. I paid by growing up in a confusing family. Often a lot of fun, and very loving, then out of nowhere it would be unsettled. [Dad was a happy drunk usually, but the bad hangovers were hell.] I paid when my mother couldn't take it like that any more and divorced him. I paid as I watched him fall deeper and deeper into the pit of alcoholism and was unable to help.

I learned that it was not my fault. I learned to read peoples moods. I learned to make the hard decisions, and put the greater good of my children over everything else. I learned that I couldn't do the impossible, not was I responsible for my fathers faults and illnesses. I learned unconditional love and forgiveness, both how to give and how to receive. I learned that parents are not perfect, and and we love them anyway. I learned kids don't have to be perfect to "earn" a parents love.

And I learned that an imperfect father can become the worlds most Perfect Grandfather!

[usaguedriedax]

Phoenix wrote, "It matters, quite simply, because the environment we live in molds the person we are/ become."

Isn't it our responsibility to transcend the environmental issues? In other words, overcome what is holding us back. I believe it is ultimately up to us. The environment is mere challenges which we face.

[yasmin]

Wolf-Hawk wrote, "And I learned that an imperfect father can become the worlds most Perfect Grandfather!"

Is viewing the world in extremes (black or white) the best way to see?

A black dad becomes a pure white grandfather? I'd be willing to bet, he's always fluctuated in the grays. (Pardon me for using the color analogy, but its the best I could come up with to get the meaning across.)

[kSmica]

I don't disagree with you Jupiter, I was only expressing MY experience. In this case, it was very much a case of opposites. And learning that imperfection in one area, can still allow perfection in another.

I don't tend to see the world as black and white...or shades of gray. I see it as a multi-dimensional kaleidoscope of options and possibilities. But then I am much older now, and have learned much. Unfortunately, my father hasn't been with us for over 20 years, and I was only beginning to share my understanding and acceptance with him when he passed over. But I'm sure he knows.

[Maserati]

Wolf-Hawk wrote, "I don't tend to see the world as black and white...or shades of gray. I see it as a multi-dimensional kaleidoscope of options and possibilities.

A most excellence come back! My undergrad was business school; there they taught in black, white, and gray. I can already see here that I too will have to learn to see "it as a multi-dimensional kaleidoscope of options and possibilities."

[Sx1qBli0]

Well put.

It matters, quite simply, because the enviroment we live in molds the person we are/ become. The question harbors nothing. It's but a question. The situation and prejudices of others harbors the bitterness, forgiveness, ect.

Of course we play the cards we are dealt. If our father wass a child molester, we live with the preconcieved notions of others that we: have those tendancies, are a victim, or have a warped view of the world, family, and relationships. If our father was a great man of peace such as Gandhi, we are expexcted to live up to that as well. It is the expectations, fears, opinions, and prejudices that are bequeathed us by our ancestors that are in actuality the "sins of our fathers" that are passed on to us. Sometimes it takes help and support to play those cards dealt to us. That's why it matters whether we do or don't. It's seldom an option that we do not.

It is not the sons and daughters of these kind of people that lay the blame. Nor do they point the finger. The blame or suspision is usualy leveled at them and the finger is pointed to them. I too, try not to play the blame game. And if the rest of the world would do the same as those of us who attempt this feat, it would be a better world. Unfortunately we are the minority in most cases. To ignore this is unwise and unrealistic. To say, "I do my best not to play the blame game" sounds well and good. But we cannot ignore the rest of society or the actions of others. And it is at times such as this that we must show a deep and honest compassion and understanding toward the sons and daughters who are in reality victims of the actions of those who came before them.

[new-nickname-zanovo]

The Bible states that for 7 generations we can be cursed for what our ancestors did. Mine must have been scoundrals...hehe

[Bromymbollile]

I can already see here that I too will have to learn to see "it as a multi-dimensional kaleidoscope of options and possibilities."

This is a commendable observation!

Peace & Love!

[tiereenny]

And we have Ezekiel 18:20 -- 'The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.'

[Appenianags]

And we have Ezekiel 18:20 -- 'The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.'

I couldn't have said that nearly as well. But still, we are speaking here in regard to the 'soul' of man (woman/child) only. In the real world he humans do not always treat each other the way we should.

I guess it all comes down to how we, each one of us, feel about the burdens others try to place on us.

Peace & Love!

[Blellurgews]

I had posted earlier 7 years but I was wrong, this was the reference I was talking about:

Exodus 34:7, "Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting (punishing) the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."

there is a good discussion on Exodus 22:18 where it talks of death for a witch.. at this link: Confessions of a Hoodoo Man: FAQ: The Truth About Curses

I see it as Phoenix said, (Bible also goes on to say this - just in different terminology) we may be passed down that trait, but we are ot stuck in that mold.